Your 18/19 Hot Take

[Sniper99]

Hyman ends season with 45 points.

 

[OVO16]

Connor Brown gets traded at the Trade Deadline for a defensive upgrade of some sort.

 

[meefer]

As to this 'toughness' issue, maybe we should listen to Wendel Clark. https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-10...leadership-toughness-in-today-s-nhl-1.1167480

 

[Ratboy]

Part of me wonders how much Dubas was on board for some of Lou’s moves (ie like the Andersen trade/contract).

Not that Im suggesting he’s necessarily NOT a fan of Andersen himself, but in three years he’s going to have to decide if he’s worth resigning to a pay increase and if not will need to find an alternative.

3 years is a good chunk of time. We'll know exactly what we have by then.

On the toughness thing, I think it has to be kind of an internal thing these days. It's nice to have it sprinkled throughout your lineup along with the talent . A 4th line goon isn't going to be able to protect your 1st liners, so you need guys with edge all through the lineup.

I'm not going anywhere with this, just spitballin is all.

 

[bluumax]

Same hot take as last year;

We still aren't a cup contender. We are a good playoff team.

I expect an improvement over lasts season's playoffs.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Same hot take as last year;

We still aren't a cup contender. We are a good playoff team.

I expect an improvement over lasts season's playoffs.

That is pretty much the exact opposite to a hot take. That is closer to most people's general opinion.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Zach hyman pots 25

In practice, of course

 

[Bluelines]

His career high is 14g 21a for 35pts and is clearly a better player than Martin.

Absolutely, one good year is always considered a trend, lets go with that.

 

[Bluelines]

What does that have to do with the records of the teams the Leafs played without Martin? WTF?

You said he was in the press box for the last 2-3 months, inferring he was a poor player, that was not the reason why he was in the press box at all.

 

[jiggy35]

Dermott pairs with Rielly and Johnsson plays with Matthews/Nylander

 

[Bluelines]

Martin basically stopped playing in January.
The leafs did not suddenly explode in man games lost due to vicious cross checks, stick infractions and the like.

Mess said due to the lineup the Leafs are deploying, we'll have more man games lost.
Why? because in his mind the team will be soft. there'll be no one to prevent the infractions.
how is that possible if the Leafs for all intents and purposes are dressing the same "soft" lineup?

and. again. how can having tougher people prevent injuries and hits. people keep saying this yet still as been stated (several times) teams that have tougher players and it didn't prevent anything. There hasn't been any real "we'll go after your star player next." Again, because I honestly think this bears repeating, Sidney Crosby freaking took a finger off Marc Methot. Ottawa's tough guys could not prevent that from happening and they didn't go all Red Wedding, hockey style on Pittsburgh for that. Minnesota Wild broke Jonny Gaudreau's wrist and the Flames did nothing to prevent that or avenge that. There are players that don't have enforcers or tough players and they aren't leading the way with man games lost (due to stick infractions, cross checkings - Mess's words). So why in is it an absurd question to challenge why the Leafs would, if they didn't for the several months that Martin didn't play? Not to mention that Kadri, Rielly, Jake, Hyman, Brown have all dropped the gloves and will do so when necessary.

if you want to call it absurd - fine. you do that. but it doesn't change the fact that the opinion nothing more than an archaic belief that toughness must be in the NHL and the Leafs will just melt like ice cream on a sidewalk since they don't have Martin glaring at people from the pressbox.

You've said exactly this at least 3 or 4 times, time to get off that drum beat and acknowledge that having a tough guy on your team allows skilled players to play with more confidence.

Remove your bias, in a 7 game series do you take Winnipeg or Toronto?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Part of me wonders how much Dubas was on board for some of Lou’s moves (ie like the Andersen trade/contract).

Not that Im suggesting he’s necessarily NOT a fan of Andersen himself, but in three years he’s going to have to decide if he’s worth resigning to a pay increase and if not will need to find an alternative.

well... there's nothing wrong with Andersen or his contract.
i know a lot of people feel we can not win with him - which is fair, but at the same time i feel for the most part he stabilized the goaltending (even with his poor Octobers). it gives Dubas 3 years to address it if he doesn't like it without wasting 5 years of Marner, Nylander, or Matthews etc etc etc's awesomeness.

 

[Walshy7]

Connor Brown gets traded at the Trade Deadline for a defensive upgrade of some sort.

a #7D wont be that great hardly a hottake, more of a luke warm take

 

[Daisy Jane]

You've said exactly this at least 3 or 4 times, time to get off that drum beat and acknowledge that having a tough guy on your team allows skilled players to play with more confidence.

Remove your bias, in a 7 game series do you take Winnipeg or Toronto?

I never said that they didn't, I even acknowledge that's how they believed. I even said i wouldn't complain about having tougher people on the team,provided they meet the criteria of how the team is going to be built. (ie: speed and skill). I even pointed out, there are several people on the team who have no issues dropping the gloves, when necessary to prove their point.

This - however is. not. what. mess. argued.

If he said "having tougher players make players play with more confidence," that's one thing, and I and several people, (Gallabi, Joey Hoser, Mezsinger, kb and weems, to start) would probably have let it go. What he said was. several times, was that not having tougher players was going to to result in the Leafs having more injuries. When asked why, showing that the Leafs tough players in the line up weren't effective at their job (such as a Wilson, Reaves or Simmonds), yet didn't have multiple injuries why would this be the case this year. Feathers.

When given clear examples how this gut feeling of needing tougher players on the team will prevent or cause retribution, is clear bumpkis, and all he had to do was give one name of whom would fit on this team that could provide all of that, he just ignores countless people asking it, and you are calling me absurd because I won't acknowledge (which i did), something that Mess isn't even arguing? Oh okay there, ducky.

And to answer your other question - in seven games, I take the Leafs in Seven. I think the series would be akin to what the Boston Bruins series was, very hard hitting. as I've stated more than once, I don't think the hitting and dealing with that caused the Leafs to lose that series, despite what other people think - each their own.

I think if everything were equal, and health it would more than likely be a high scoring affair. the Jets being a heavier, physical team would more than likely try to hit the Leafs into submission and try to alter their game., which when the Jets get going - is pretty damn awesome at it (as seen through their cup run).

However, our centre depth is better than theirs, and I do believe we are faster than they are, which is what was able to break them (and was what broke Boston). We've seen the team (The Leafs) being able to channel that speed and shiftiness into playing really amazing games of keepaway with bigger, physical teams - Nashville, and Boston. The differences, of course would be the powerplay. Laine's shot is something to be reckoned with, and they are able to convert on the powerplay in the playoffs where as the Leafs with the 2nd best powerplay two years running has had one of the worst playoff powerplays two years running (Tavares will help i think). As stated, I personally believe that the D should be improved upon before any kind of legitimate cup run, but more important better commitment to team defense would help immensely - and as again the Leafs have shown the can do it, they'll just have to actually do so and as every year they've gotten better in this regard, I don't see why this one should be any different. If Andersen can channel his cup run with Anaheim with a respectable .GAA and s/v% I like the Leafs chances.

 

[Bluelines]

I never said that they didn't, I even acknowledge that's how they believed. I even said i wouldn't complain about having tougher people on the team,provided they meet the criteria of how the team is going to be built. (ie: speed and skill). I even pointed out, there are several people on the team who have no issues dropping the gloves, when necessary to prove their point.

This - however is. not. what. mess. argued.

If he said "having tougher players make players play with more confidence," that's one thing, and I and several people, (Gallabi, Joey Hoser, Mezsinger, kb and weems, to start) would probably have let it go. What he said was. several times, was that not having tougher players was going to to result in the Leafs having more injuries. When asked why, showing that the Leafs tough players in the line up weren't effective at their job (such as a Wilson, Reaves or Simmonds), yet didn't have multiple injuries why would this be the case this year. Feathers.

When given clear examples how this gut feeling of needing tougher players on the team will prevent or cause retribution, is clear bumpkis, and all he had to do was give one name of whom would fit on this team that could provide all of that, he just ignores countless people asking it, and you are calling me absurd because I won't acknowledge (which i did), something that Mess isn't even arguing? Oh okay there, ducky.

And to answer your other question - in seven games, I take the Leafs in Seven. I think the series would be akin to what the Boston Bruins series was, very hard hitting. as I've stated more than once, I don't think the hitting and dealing with that caused the Leafs to lose that series, despite what other people think - each their own.

I think if everything were equal, and health it would more than likely be a high scoring affair. the Jets being a heavier, physical team would more than likely try to hit the Leafs into submission and try to alter their game., which when the Jets get going - is pretty damn awesome at it (as seen through their cup run).

However, our centre depth is better than theirs, and I do believe we are faster than they are, which is what was able to break them (and was what broke Boston). We've seen the team (The Leafs) being able to channel that speed and shiftiness into playing really amazing games of keepaway with bigger, physical teams - Nashville, and Boston. The differences, of course would be the powerplay. Laine's shot is something to be reckoned with, and they are able to convert on the powerplay in the playoffs where as the Leafs with the 2nd best powerplay two years running has had one of the worst playoff powerplays two years running (Tavares will help i think). As stated, I personally believe that the D should be improved upon before any kind of legitimate cup run, but more important better commitment to team defense would help immensely - and as again the Leafs have shown the can do it, they'll just have to actually do so and as every year they've gotten better in this regard, I don't see why this one should be any different. If Andersen can channel his cup run with Anaheim with a respectable .GAA and s/v% I like the Leafs chances.

I get it, you have issue with what Mess stated as fact, its something you can't quantify.

 

[Mess]

Well put! To anyone who has played(and not only hockey) this is real.
There seems to be hope from a sector of fans who don't agree with fighting or for some not even physical play,that everthing will be OK.
Maybe they are right! Maybe it will be a league where nothing bad happens! Just a bunch of well mannered kids saying excuse me and sorry!

Dressing a bunch of figure skaters is only going to get you so far. IMO

Eventually, particularly in playoff hockey where the games get tighter and more physical and intense the Leafs will be bringing a knife to a gun fight and outmatched.

I think lack of push back ability and backbone will make the soft, small, skilled & fast Leafs easy to play against, if you can enforce your will on the team physically and they have no response.

Nobody questions the Leafs talent and offensive ability being among the best in the league, but their alkalies kneel of vulnerability is their lack of team toughness and their defense core and opposition will exploit that weakness to their gain.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going" and its teams like Winnipeg and Smashville and Washington who were built for playoff hockey, had success in the final 4 because in a skating league they held the advantage of team toughness to neutralize teams built for just speed or skill alone.

 

[Gallagbi]

Dressing a bunch of figure skaters is only going to get you so far. IMO

Eventually, particularly in playoff hockey where the games get tighter and more physical and intense the Leafs will be bringing a knife to a gun fight and outmatched.

I think lack of push back ability and backbone will make the soft, small, skilled & fast Leafs easy to play against, if you can enforce your will on the team physically and they have no response.

Nobody questions the Leafs talent and offensive ability being among the best in the league, but their alkalies kneel of vulnerability is their lack of team toughness and their defense core and opposition will exploit that weakness to their gain.

Kinda like the Leafs will exploit other teams lack of speed and skill to theirs?

 

[Daisy Jane]

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going" and its teams like Winnipeg and Smashville and Washington who were built for playoff hockey, had success in the final 4 because in a skating league they held the advantage of team toughness to neutralize teams built for just speed or skill alone.

which is why:
Winnipeg lost in the 3rd Round
Nashville lost to Pittsburgh (centre depth and high scoring offense)
and Washington won because their secondary scoring depth finally kicked in, compared to Vegas whose goaltending and offense couldn't keep up.


but yes. i'm sure the abundance of truculence, belligerence and testosterone, is what did it.

 

[LeafGrief]

Dressing a bunch of figure skaters is only going to get you so far. IMO

Eventually, particularly in playoff hockey where the games get tighter and more physical and intense the Leafs will be bringing a knife to a gun fight and outmatched.

I think lack of push back ability and backbone will make the soft, small, skilled & fast Leafs easy to play against, if you can enforce your will on the team physically and they have no response.

Nobody questions the Leafs talent and offensive ability being among the best in the league, but their alkalies kneel of vulnerability is their lack of team toughness and their defense core and opposition will exploit that weakness to their gain.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going" and its teams like Winnipeg and Smashville and Washington who were built for playoff hockey, had success in the final 4 because in a skating league they held the advantage of team toughness to neutralize teams built for just speed or skill alone.

Winnipeg and Nashville are tough teams now? Those must be some metrics that make Shiefele, Ehlers, Laine, Ellis, Arvidsson, and Turris tough players lol.

Lack of pushback ability? Did we not watch the Leafs go down 3-1 in a series and then battle back to game 7? Did our "figure skater" in Marner not score nine points in seven games? Did Kadri not get suspended for three games for a hit he threw in direct response to one on Marner? The Leafs are never going to be a tough team, but I honestly have no idea what you're basing your definitions of tough and "hard to play against" on. The only thing you're really correct and consistent about is that the Caps were a tough team this year.

And because it needed to be posted again:

Leafs with Martin: 27-18-5
Leafs without Martin: 22-8-2

Leafs with Polak: 29-20-5
Leafs without Polak: 20-6-2

The Leafs spent the entire year objectively demonstrating that what you are saying isn't true.

 

[therealkoho]

Leafs man games lost to injuries this year increases significantly, as opposition will take liberties with slash, crosschecks and physical abuse, without any fear of retribution to themselves or their teammates as a result based on Leafs intended player personnel this year.

and let's not discount the Zebra factor either

 

[therealkoho]

Marner leads Leafs in scoring edging out JT by 2pts

Matthews struggles out of the gate, Babcock removes Nylander from line at game 12 and plugs in Brown, Matthews ignites for 29 pts in the next 20 games

Johnsson - Kadri - Nylander pick up where they left off in game#5 perform well enough to be considered one of the leagues elite shutdown lines and Kadri gets a Selke nom

Gardiner's game finally blossoms and cuts his TO's in half

In January Leafs put up a perfect 10-0

 

[slozo]

My hot take:

Matthews wins the Rocket Richard trophy this year. boo-yah.

 

[nsleaf]

All posters on the HF Leaf's board will come together in total agreement about Hyman, Kadri, Babcock, toughness, etc., etc., etc.........

 

[QJo]

a #7D wont be that great hardly a hottake, more of a luke warm take

Someone say my name?

Leafs have improved, there's my takeaway from the summer.

 

[Gary Nylund]

i don't think there be a storyline. just yay you did your job.
it will be a storyline if it was a year out from andy's contract.

You never know, it depends on how well Sparks plays. There was a time when we had Fuhr in net and because his backup emerged as a reliable alternative, we were able to trade Fuhr for a nice haul!