Young talent? We are the worst team in the NHL ....

[Le Magnifique 66]

The Pens organizational decision making should come into serious question.

They should have given Maata until December to rehab.
Should have tried to trade Scuds, Kunitz and Martin in the offseason.
Shouldn't have signed Ehrhoff.
Played Despres, Harrington, and Dumo and lived with their growing pains.
Added a Vet D man through FA, no more than a 2 year deal. Physical preferred.
Traded Sutter
Kept Sunqvist here
Kept Goc as 3rd line center
Cut Adams.

We say that now but we wouldn't have accepted that earlier on.

If they would have traded Martin, no Ehrhoff and question marks to Letang and Maatta, this team wouldn't have even been in a playoff spot.

Kunitz came off a great season, really no point in trading him last summer, this summer I would agree.

Same for Sutter, in the future Sundqvist could maybe handle it, but right now no

They should have been able to add at least a 1st or 2nd rounder with the Neal trade, that's where I think JR screwed up. A decent return, but with the Preds that desperate he could have tried to get a little more.

 

[plaidchuck]

No trading fleury pghkev?

 

[Coastal Kev]

We say that now but we wouldn't have accepted that earlier on.

If they would have traded Martin, no Ehrhoff and question marks to Letang and Maatta, this team wouldn't have even been in a playoff spot.

Kunitz came off a great season, really no point in trading him last summer, this summer I would agree.

Same for Sutter, in the future Sundqvist could maybe handle it, but right now no

They should have been able to add at least a 1st or 2nd rounder with the Neal trade, that's where I think JR screwed up. A decent return, but with the Preds that desperate he could have tried to get a little more.

SOME said this at the time.
We could have rolled with our young, CHEAP D, and think about the flexibility with the cap that would have allowed.

Sutter's value was high after the playoffs. Imagine the return that we get back for Martin, Scuds, Sutter and Kunitz and where we would be right now moving forward.

All that had to happen was a GM to have some balls and make some bold moves. Now.... This team is cap strapped. We lost one of our young D for an older crappier Dman. Kunitz will now be hard to move, same with Scuds. Harrington and Dumo still have very little NHL experience.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The way the Pens have talked up Scuderi, I don't see why they couldn't get a top five overall pick for him.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

The way the Pens have talked up Scuderi, I don't see why they couldn't get a top five overall pick for him.

Once his playing career is over, the Pens will give him the Head scout position!

 

[plaidchuck]

The way the Pens have talked up Scuderi, I don't see why they couldn't get a top five overall pick for him.

"The Craig Adams of the defense" niiiiice.

 

[BigBenSF*]

Swapping Martin and Ehrhoff for Harrington and Dumoulin is a great way to make a team much worse

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

We can't really blame management for what's happened over the years, most people wanted this.

I mean for years people on here have been complaining about Crosby and Geno being 23-24 and it's time to win now !!!!!

So that's what happens, prospects and picks were traded for veterans and we haven't even been back to a SCF since 09

 

[Shady Machine]

We can't really blame management for what's happened over the years, most people wanted this.

I mean for years people on here have been complaining about Crosby and Geno being 23-24 and it's time to win now !!!!!

So that's what happens, prospects and picks were traded for veterans and we haven't even been back to a SCF since 09

Yes we can blame management. Just because "people wanted this" doesn't mean management has to make bad, short-sighted decisions. They are paid to be smarter and better at this than us.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yes we can blame management. Just because "people wanted this" doesn't mean management has to make bad, short-sighted decisions. They are paid to be smarter and better at this than us.

I don't think people here have been lobbying the Pens to trade picks and futures for any old veterans regardless. If they represent a significant upgrade, sure, but that's hardly always the case.

 

[themethod7]

What it really boils down to is how good the older players are. For instance, our older players suck for the most part while the Kings' and Blackhawks' older guys are awesome/contribute to Cup wins.

You still need younger guys that contribute in addition to their core/veterans. It's easy to dismiss this and say "yeah well the GOOD teams don't have to play those younger players because their older players are so good", but you do need young players on ELCs to fill out your roster and actually contribute.

LA: Toffoli, Pearson, Voynov, Clifford, King, Muzzin were all 24 or younger and played at least 24 games during their last cup run, not to mention Doughty. As an added bonus, Muzzin was a 5th round pick for Pitts and we let him walk, and he now plays alongside Doughty on LA's top d-pairing. Blame it on him getting lost in the shuffle when Shero took over, or being a late-bloomer, but either way it's just another example of poor asset management and player assessment.

Chicago: Saad, Shaw, Leddy, Kruger, Frolik all 24 or younger during their cup run, in addition to Toews and Kane (whose newest contracts will force them to continue playing young guys on ELCs, but I digress).

The year we won the cup we were in the same boat: Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letang, Fleury, Kennedy, Talbot all 24 or younger and played a big part in our postseason.

Same thing is happening this year, the top 5 teams are getting some serious contribution from guys 24 or younger (some more than others):

TB: Stamkos, Drouin, Kucherov, Palat, Hedman, Tyler Johnson, Connolly, Paquette
Montreal: Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Beaulieu, Sekac (before he was traded)
Nashville: Seth Jones, Forsberg, Josi, Ekholm, Jarnkok, Ellis
Anaheim: Gibson, Rakell, Lindholm, Smith-Pelly (traded to Montreal for Sekac, coincidentally), Palmieri, Fowler, Vatanen, Silfverberg, and added Despres at the deadline, who's now giving them 18+ minutes a night.
NYR: JT Miller, Hayes, Fast, Kreider, Stepan

Which brings us to our current roster...

Pitt: Maatta (injured), Despres (traded), Pouliot, Bennett. Of our 4 players 24 or younger to play more than 15 games this season, one had season ending surgery, one was traded, and another seems to be in the team's doghouse and destined to be traded this offseason.

Yes, you need your core guys and veterans to "be awesome and contribute to a Cup win", but they can't do it without help from younger, cheaper teammates.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Yes we can blame management. Just because "people wanted this" doesn't mean management has to make bad, short-sighted decisions. They are paid to be smarter and better at this than us.

I completely agree

Honestly in the last 3-4 years, the only trade I was ok with was Iginla, and I honestly thought we would have had a great shot at signing the guy.

Morrow and especially the Murray trade was totally awful and hurt us, gave up a decent prospect and a few solid possible picks.

This Crosby/Geno is young and in win "mode now" I never believed in it and it's going to kill us in the long run

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't think people here have been lobbying the Pens to trade picks and futures for any old veterans regardless. If they represent a significant upgrade, sure, but that's hardly always the case.

Oh I agree. Just saying that even IF we were arguing for "win now" trades every deadline, that doesn't give management a pass for making short-sighted trades.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Look at the Hawks, Kings and Bruins who have probably been the best since 2010. They very rarely trade their picks, especially in a salary cap world. We don't develop any young players and are forced to trade for 3rd and 4th line players.

Those teams are competitive year after year and have a decent amount of prospects still coming up.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Yes we can blame management. Just because "people wanted this" doesn't mean management has to make bad, short-sighted decisions. They are paid to be smarter and better at this than us.

NO one in that management team wanted to put their job on the line and suggest radical changes. So they made minor moves to the roster and knew that SID and Geno would be enough to get us back into the playoffs.

Then everyone keeps their jobs, they all make a bunch of money and the fans that know nothing think we are SOOOOO close to winning again.

It's all BS. Anyone that has even the slightest hockey knowledge can see the problems with the roster plain as day.

We can't bring up a minor league D to play because we don't have 550k in cap space available. How does any front office leave themselves zero cap flexibility??

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

NO one in that management team wanted to put their job on the line and suggest radical changes. So they made minor moves to the roster and knew that SID and Geno would be enough to get us back into the playoffs.

Then everyone keeps their jobs, they all make a bunch of money and the fans that know nothing think we are SOOOOO close to winning again.

It's all BS. Anyone that has even the slightest hockey knowledge can see the problems with the roster plain as day.

We can't bring up a minor league D to play because we don't have 550k in cap space available. How does any front office leave themselves zero cap flexibility??

Because we haven't drafted well in years and have no one in the system to fill holes, so we always have to look on the outside and trade for 3rd and 4th liners who end up costing us 3x the price.

Until this team starts deciding to invest more money in scouting and developing the players, it's always going to be a problem. And I like the guy, but it's not JR that's going to help us with that problem.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Oh I agree. Just saying that even IF we were arguing for "win now" trades every deadline, that doesn't give management a pass for making short-sighted trades.

For sure.

 

[torrencemd]

Constant trading of picks while Sid and geno were in their young 20's was obviously a poor mistake. If the organization showed some patience and drafted out a few first rounders it wouldn't have hurt so much. I blame more on asset management as we consistently bought without selling and older vets for return assets. How they didn't trade Nisky last year blew my mind as everyone could see it was a contract year. Sure he is doing ok in Washington a plus 9 w 20 some points but nowhere near our production here. We could have sold for a really nice fwd prospect and a first or second and tried this yr. instead our prospect pool is dwindled and we have a one second rounder this yr. we better hope like hell Sundquist and KK are the real deal or we are hurting. But I think the team forwards w dupuis would have been much better. If Kuni is ******** the bed flip flop him w duper. Maybe injuries are reeking havoc on us too, forcing a Perron trade

 

[zero8771]

I'm sorry but these statistics don't mean much to me. We need more youth, but these stats don't tell the story. Most of our younger players are bottom line players and D. Next year with DP up a full year and possibly BB/KK/OS taking roles the forwards should score some more points.

I think most posters here's ideal lineups wouldn't change these stats that much

 

[Freeptop]

Anybody know how many scouts we have active in Europe?
I know we have a Dir of Euro Scouting, but wonder how many scouts actually are there.
Since Shero/DB and the shift back to North America, I wonder if Euro players will be allowed back in the mix...obviously we have Maatta, Sundquist, KK....but I thought all those guys were in NA JUniors....could be wrong?....

Three European scouts:
Patrik Allvin, Head European Scout
Tommy Westlund, Amateur Scout, based in Sweden
Erkki Rajamaki, Amateur Scout, based in Finland

 

[Honour Over Glory]

In the past 3yrs, we've lost how many picks?

1st this year? (Although, kind of worth it for Perron, he would have gone for more at the deadline)
1st + Hanowski + Agostino for Iginla
2nd + 2nd for Murray
Morrow + for Morrow?

That's how you kill a future.

 

[YinzAintBurgh*]

Yet Maatta is one of the best young defensemen in the league. Pouliot looks promising. So who's really to blame? Coaching, GM, or the bust we draft like BB.

 

[DoktorZaius]

One 2nd for Murray makes me feel awful. Two 2nd's for Murray makes me want to keel over and puke. It wasn't until then that I realized RS had become an empty suit...his press conference just meekly explained that "I don't get to set the prices...I just have to decide if I'm going to pay them." Ugh. What a waste of life he had become by that point.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think Doug Murray did everything we wanted from him those playoffs. He was solid in a bottom pair and PK role and played hard-nosed hockey.

The price was crazy, but we needed what he provided.

 

[billybudd]

In the past 3yrs, we've lost how many picks?

1st this year? (Although, kind of worth it for Perron, he would have gone for more at the deadline)
1st + Hanowski + Agostino for Iginla
2nd + 2nd for Murray
Morrow + for Morrow?

That's how you kill a future.

The Hanowski and Agostino picks were lost the second Shero made them. Agostino was an especially bad pick. An NHL capable scorer in his own backyard is not going to go unnoticed by David Conte of the Devils. It would have been like picking a Swedish kid the wings passed on who attended high school with Hakaan Anderson's son. That we thought he was something was incredibly stupid of our scouts. If Conte doesn't want a guy like Agostino, there's a reason for that.

Hanowski was also rough considering some of the guys on the board. To me, Casey Czikas would look awful good in this uniform, to say nothing of a Barrie or even an Eakin. Before he wrecked his leg, Wellwood was also visibly, obviously better. However, none of those players were American enough for Ray.

In retrospect, losing Morrow didn't cost us anything as he still can't crack the NHL, 3 years and two teams later. I remember him being a reach of a selection at the time.

One of those seconds we got back for Kennedy. 2nd and 2nd for Murray was actually 2nd + 2nd + Kennedy for higher 2nd + Murray. The whole trade was just delayed.



The guys Shero drafted with the picks he had were a bigger problem than development or trading of draft picks. Trading of picks is something of a problem. Development? Only guys with NHL stuff that could have been anything who we let slip through the cracks were Moulson and Muzzin and that was many years ago.

I guess Lovejoy, but judging by the Game Day threads, I'm the only person on this board who thinks anything positive about him.

Letestu didn't slip through the cracks so much as he was an either/or with Jeffrey. Jeffrey screwed up his knee, making him the wrong horse to bet on.

Despres did develop; we just traded him anyway.