Post-Game Talk: Young Stars Classic | Game 1 | Oilers def. Canucks 4-1

[docbenton]

There's a reason why Subban is a offensive defensemen guys.

You kind of have to cut him some slack, he made a great net-positive impact on the game.

Sure, he's gotta become better defensively to be a NHLer. But this piling on Subban for not being showing enough defensively, while completely ignoring his impact offensively triggers the hell out of me.

I don't even remember him making any defensive mistakes. I just remember Puljujarvi driving on him a couple times and Subban taking the puck away.

 

[Siludin]

Jordan Subban should play as a forward.

 

[Bad Goalie]

You mean the Valk that's spent the last two seasons in the ECHL with a few callups the Comets? He's nothing special, he looks good against kids but struggles to have an impact at the AHL level. This could be the season he sticks in the AHL, but he's not going much higher than the middle 6 in the AHL, and that's at best.



I'd say Cassels was probably better, but none of the forwards had a great night.

Just reading through this thread so someone may have already commented on this, but here goes.

Valk is an ECHL player. Does not have the ability to deal with the physicality of the higher leagues. He is pushed off the puck with ease. He is knocked down all over the ice. Loses the battles on the wall for the same reason. His fore check is shrugged off by his opponent. His speed is not effective enough to make a difference.

There is no room for him in the middle in Utica. Chaput, Megna/Gaunce, Cassels, Hamilton, and Zalewski are ahead of him right off the getgo. The last 4 guys were ahead of him there last season along with Vey, Friesen, and TJ Hensick who are now gone. However, the replacements for those last three are better.

Cassels, in spite of his injury and slow half season or longer rehab rate, was way better in the middle than Valk because he could hold his own in the strength department. People's reviews of Cassels in game one in this tourney has revealed that he is a different player already based on his skating.

Sorry, but expect to see Valk as an ECHL guy with the Alaska Aces.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I wonder how much playing with Olli vs Bresbois influenced the performances of Subban and Stecher. I don't think Bresbois was bad, but Juolevi is on another level and really plays a game that would compliment either Subban or Stecher.

It became a fact of life last season that Subban must be paired with a very strong defender in order to cover for his mistakes and poor positioning. His pairing also needs to be combined with a very solid trio of defensively responsible forwards. Given those advantages his offensive skills shine and he's not so noticeably bad on the other end.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I really liked Stecher tonight. Unfortunately I don't see him having a great chance of making the canucks due to complications with Tryamkin and Larsen having khl releases. At this point, based on that rather limited one game sample, he's first call up. Subban looks great offensively but yeah defensively lots of work, Stetcher looks more ready.

Nobody else really stood out, demko looked ok, joulevi was rock solid defensively but needs to show more offensively.

Let's see Stecher in the AHL for a bit before we crown him. 3 games against this competition is far too little to annoint him as the first call-up. I think he's going to be a good player, but let's not put two carts before the horse.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Labate likes to fight... expecting a great year from him in Utica...

A great year of fighting or a great year playing hockey? He established himself as a very good PP guy in the crease. From a skill standpoint, he is slow, feet aren't quick, fore check is strong as long as the D-man doesn't have quick feet, makes sharp cuts, and turns on the dime on his edges in which case Joe falls down or stumbles all over the place. Not a great passer and his puck skills don't stand out either. He's a mucker and a grinder with great heart and very supportive of his mates.

 

[WTG]

vods online

 

[Bad Goalie]

That may very well be the case and Subban was making some mistakes that would have been obvious no matter who his partner is but Juolevi could potentially have a Tanev-esque influence on who he plays with. I'd be interested to see how the two would play together. Anyway, this tournament doesn't really mean a whole lot unelss you're a longshot prospect or a camp invite.



In their eyes I bet Stecher passed Subban the moment he was signed.

I was about to post something along the same lines. In most situations they have pushed their own acquisitions to the front of the line and made the comparison level player expendable. I've been very hard on Subban, but his upside is undeniable. Giving up on him for the time being would would IMO be a big mistake.

He's 21 and was a high scoring rookie D-man in the AHL. Most in the know about this game know that D-men often take longer to develop than forwards. He has the offensive side down and that improved immensely over the course of the season. Defensively he was a mess in the beginning, but improved little by little game after game. By season's end he still had lots to improve upon, but he had come a long ways, particularly since it appeared he arrived with very little in the way of defensive skills or the IQ of a solid D-man. He had always got away with his faults by just out skating them. He couldn't do that against experienced pros. He had to learn to play defense the way it has to be played and it was a slow grind and it will take another season or two with a real good coach with patience, but one who will not accept repeated mistakes once the right way to do things have been drilled in. Green is this kind of coach.

Two seasons from now this guy may be a real asset to any NHL team. It would be a shame if it turned out to be on the roster of an opponent. We have had enough of these giveaways. A little patience on Benning's part might be a good move with this kid.

 

[Zombotron]

 

[Josepho]

I hope they mic Stecher next game. Dude seems very vocal.

 

[quat]

Roy played last year in Bakersfield and struggled big time. He is an example of the wasted picks the oilers have had over the past ten years. He can have a few good shifts--but putting the shifts together into a proper game is the problem

The thing with the Oilers being crap at drafting, is they've actually benefited from it. There's no way they're low enough to pick Draisaitl or McDavid if any of their picks beyond the first round had been successful.

They legitimately drafted pretty much twice in the first round for at least five years, and they mostly came away skunked ... leading to more chances to draft top 10. The Canucks suck and end up with fewer draft picks AND they trade away their first round drafted players for depth.

Daym.

 

[Zombotron]

I hope they mic Stecher next game. Dude seems very vocal.

He's a yappy one.

 

[biturbo19]

There's a reason why Subban is a offensive defensemen guys.

You kind of have to cut him some slack, he made a great net-positive impact on the game.

Sure, he's gotta become better defensively to be a NHLer. But this piling on Subban for not being showing enough defensively, while completely ignoring his impact offensively triggers the hell out of me. There's a reason why the canucks D can't score, because we haven't had a time where we had an offensive defensemen, then when we finally have one we rip on him for being not being good enough defensively.

I honestly think that some of you guys have a twisted perspective of what a o-dmen does since the canucks haven't had one since forever.

I think people still know what an offensive defenceman looks like...That's why we all covet one so badly.

It's one thing accepting the mistakes an offensive defenceman makes while trying to make something high risk/reward happen with the puck (that happens, it's why guys like Karlsson top the turnover stats list), even the mistakes that happen because the guy is caught up ice trying to jump in and make something happen. Learning to tweak that risk/reward barometer is something a lot of offensive defencemen can continually struggle with. "Error-hof" anyone?

But it's something else accepting the kind of defensive issues Subban shows without the puck at all. The 1-on-1 situations, the coverage situations, the angles he takes, when and where he applies pressure...and yes, just the simple physical battles he loses.

Those types of mistakes aren't just "oh, he was just trying to make something happen". They're fundamentals that even the "offensive specialists" of the NHL have a firm grasp on.

That's not to say Subban can't eventually get there...he's still plenty young with lots of time ahead of him to build some structure and discipline into his game and refine his defensive play with and without the puck. But even in a loose scrimmagy thing like this, the issues stand out right now. A lot of work to do.