Post-Game Talk: Yotes @ Preds - Welcome to the Phil Zone

[Armourboy]

I didn’t really see that. Definitely more boos towards the end but people left en masse much earlier during the Vegas game. At least from what I could tell.

Well hopefully if it keeps up the owners get worried and force a change somewhere.

 

[herzausstein]

I feel like his decision is only going to be between "buy" and "stand pat", though.

What's the worst that can happen in the 8 games we have left before the Trade Deadline? Something like 3-5? Maybe 2-6? I doubt that will leave us in a spot where we won't still be able to say, "well, in those remaining 23 games, all we have to do is go 18-5 and we can still make it..."

We're not going to end up in a position that will change his mind onto the "sell" path, alas. That ship isn't even in port.

Well we just lost what shouldve been our easiest game so we could go full out 0-8-0... anything is possible. Poiles got to think beyond this season as well. Might be a good time to sell some pieces and start resetting for next if the opportunity arises.

 

[triggrman]

How "lately"?

Everybody wanted him to dump Kunin. He dumped Kunin.

He got McDonagh for free. I know we don't like his Cap hit, but, that's why we got him for free. And I think McDonagh is fine and could indeed have helped us if we were actually the kind of outside-mini-contender that Poile was probably hoping we were when he got him. It would be nice if he was paid $3-4M instead, but again, that's why he was free.

Niederreiter and Lankinen adds perfectly filled needs we had.

He got a 4th round pick for Olivier. I'm shocked he got anything. (That said, Olivier seems to have stuck and is playing alright, within his role, for the Jackets now, so I'm happy for Olivier).

I like Lauzon. I think he's sometimes over-used, but I'm happy with that addition in general, since it does fill a 3rd-pair spot with a more regular player rather than just a minor-league spare as we had been doing for several years.

Most folks have been gushing over his draft picks, happy to have Kemell fall to us, Askarov, L'Heureux, the unearthing of hidden gems like Parssinen, I don't see anything recent to fault our drafting on.

He moved Ellis and Subban at precisely the right times. Those moves were huge wins.

I think he handled the Expansion Draft about as perfectly as could have been done... losing just Jarnkrok was a bit of a coup given our situation.

He hasn't made the big dumb trade deadline rental trades for a while now.

Even the moves that we question a little bit more, like the Granlund/Fiala swap or moving Arvidsson, they do have some reasonable counterarguments.

No objections here to the contracts for the core players he's handed out recently. Josi, Forsberg cases in particular we came out as well or better than could have been hoped. Kept the term manageable on Ekholm, pretty good bridges and other smaller contracts to other re-signed/extended guys lately.

Anyway, I would say he has been humming along on a net positive slate for the last several years in terms of the trades/contracts/drafting side of things. You can't bat 1.000 on these things, but he's doing as good as I could reasonably ask for of any GM lately.

If it wasn't for the coaching issue, I would have said he has been on quite a roll and getting better with age the last handful of years. (And to be sure, I wrap a few of this year's roster oddities in with the coaching problem).

Hired John Hynes, after he completely failed in New Jersey.
Extended John Hynes.
Eeli Tolvanen
Of the last 10 drafts, we have exactly 1 first round pick on the roster consistently, and he's our biggest trade chip.
Poile has said you need 3 players from a draft to make it a successful draft, he hasn't done that since 2016 and 2 of those played mostly for other orgs.
Kevin Fiala might have been the best offensive player he's drafted, never scored more than 48 points here, immediately looked better once traded.
Traded Sam Girard for Turris, bought out Turris.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Hired John Hynes, after he completely failed in New Jersey.
Extended John Hynes.
Eeli Tolvanen
Of the last 10 drafts, we have exactly 1 first round pick on the roster consistently, and he's our biggest trade chip.
Poile has said you need 3 players from a draft to make it a successful draft, he hasn't done that since 2016 and 2 of those played mostly for other orgs.
Kevin Fiala might have been the best offensive player he's drafted, never scored more than 48 points here, immediately looked better once traded.
Traded Sam Girard for Turris, bought out Turris.

Coaching I agree with.

The other things... it's a mixed bag. Tolvanen like I said I categorize with the coaching. It's still a mistake. But also part of the coaching mistake.

I'm not sure what you mean about 1st round picks. Our last 10 are Kemell, Svechkov, L'Heureux, Askarov, Tomasino, Tolvanen, Fabbro, Fiala, Seth Jones, and Austin Watson. There's actually a chance all 10 of them will be NHLers. Only the first 3 are even in question. That's very fine drafting, especially considering where we were picking from.

Statistically, 2 out of 7 is solid drafting. 3 out of 7 is a very successful draft. I'm optimistic about 2022, 2021, and 2020, but those chickens haven't hatched yet. Like I said, how far do you want to go back? 2 out of 7 already in 2019 (Tomasino and Parssinen). 3 in 2016, 3 in 2015, 2 in 2014, 2 in 2013, the drafting has been fine.

And like I said you can't have perfection, there is no GM who is going to bat 1.000. I would do the Girard for Turris trade again, Girard is nothing special, we needed a center desperately, and Turris had been a good one, it was a fair gamble to make. Just glad Poile was also smart enough to buy him out when that failed.

Fiala... is a challenging personality, so like I also said, I understand why they made that deal. I didn't like it, don't like it today. Minnesota also bailed on Fiala even after he broke out. But if you're looking for a GM to bat 1.000, you'll be looking a loooooooong time, and setting yourself up for disappointment in perpetuity.

I would still replace Poile just on the Hynes file, though, if he sticks with him after missing the playoffs this year, so in a way, the rest of the arguments are kind of a moot point, because coaching is actually the single most important factor for us right now, and to be blind to that issue is a fatal mistake.

 

[Byrddog]

Coaching I agree with.

The other things... it's a mixed bag. Tolvanen like I said I categorize with the coaching. It's still a mistake. But also part of the coaching mistake.

I'm not sure what you mean about 1st round picks. Our last 10 are Kemell, Svechkov, L'Heureux, Askarov, Tomasino, Tolvanen, Fabbro, Fiala, Seth Jones, and Austin Watson. There's actually a chance all 10 of them will be NHLers. Only the first 3 are even in question. That's very fine drafting, especially considering where we were picking from.

Statistically, 2 out of 7 is solid drafting. 3 out of 7 is a very successful draft. I'm optimistic about 2022, 2021, and 2020, but those chickens haven't hatched yet. Like I said, how far do you want to go back? 2 out of 7 already in 2019 (Tomasino and Parssinen). 3 in 2016, 3 in 2015, 2 in 2014, 2 in 2013, the drafting has been fine.

And like I said you can't have perfection, there is no GM who is going to bat 1.000. I would do the Girard for Turris trade again, Girard is nothing special, we needed a center desperately, and Turris had been a good one, it was a fair gamble to make. Just glad Poile was also smart enough to buy him out when that failed.

Fiala... is a challenging personality, so like I also said, I understand why they made that deal. I didn't like it, don't like it today. Minnesota also bailed on Fiala even after he broke out. But if you're looking for a GM to bat 1.000, you'll be looking a loooooooong time, and setting yourself up for disappointment in perpetuity.

I would still replace Poile just on the Hynes file, though, if he sticks with him after missing the playoffs this year, so in a way, the rest of the arguments are kind of a moot point, because coaching is actually the single most important factor for us right now, and to be blind to that issue is a fatal mistake.

Don’t you think that only two of the 10 picks were cerebral selections. Jones and Askarok the rest were basicall BPA. Fiala was never going to thrive here due to the center situation and burned his bridges with immaturity. With a that said he’s still going to be the best scorer in the list. Jones honestly has been a disappointment for the hype that surrounded him that year. When Florida too Barkov we knew Jones was coming here. He had no slot here and was logical to trade him. Then he languishes in Columbus who trade and send him to pergatory in Chicago. Fabbro is closer to a bust than a success. He honestly reminds me of the poor man’s Ekblad who was drafted as the whole package defenseman and has been I good defensive player that chips in like Ryan Suter. Expectations on Fabbro have been high since day 1. No sure what happens with him. Those guys from the last three years are just plain hopefuls they are pieces Poile loves to trade. I agree with you that the last 10 1st rounders have had more chance than what was drafted in the first 10 years. Those guys are still a few years out I. Ability to step in and take the reins. Should they get there looks of course but they also run the risk of being tossed aside.
The reality is it’s going to be a number of years turning this bug grinding boat around getting young players the time they need.

 

[hockey diva]

Looks like we are in the mushy middle for the foreseeable future. Just good enough to make the playoffs most seasons, not good enough to actually do anything in the playoffs.

 

[triggrman]

taking this to the fire the GM thread

 

[101st_fan]

What about the points pace of the last 3 games? We can slice the win/loss record however we want to fit any narrative. With that said, the team is not playing well coming out of the break and also lost their best scoring forward for some amount of time. Not a good trend for 'slight improvement'.

The typical focus on the most negative, recent, and exception to the norm example to complain against. The full 51 game to date trendline has them in contention with playoffs coming down to the results of head to head matches determining seeding between the Wild, Preds, and Flames. The 41 game trendline is more favorable.

Santayana hasn't made it to HF yet.

 

[LCPreds]

The typical focus on the most negative, recent, and exception to the norm example to complain against. The full 51 game to date trendline has them in contention with playoffs coming down to the results of head to head matches determining seeding between the Wild, Preds, and Flames. The 41 game trendline is more favorable.

Santayana hasn't made it to HF yet.

Completely ignored the loss of Forsberg and the rest of season SOS vs our competition with your in depth analysis.

 

[101st_fan]

Completely ignored the loss of Forsberg and the rest of season SOS vs our competition with your in depth analysis.

The team won the game where they lost Forsberg ... who is day to day. Things you deliberately ignore in your lack of any analysis ... along with the very simple fact that Forsberg is injured EVERY season. His last season with 75+ games is 2016-17 (normalizing 2019-21 for 82 game seasons). The "rest of the season SOS" is perception trumping reality to fit a set of complaints that aren't linked to performance ... but if you choose do discuss based on fact, I'll be here.