Years where the Conn Smythe was up in the air

[Al Bundy*]

When it comes to the Conn Smythe Trophy, there have been years where, by the end of the playoffs and the last game, it was seen as a no-brainer (i.e. Gretzky in '85 and '88 or Tim Thomas last year).

But there have also been years where, before the Conn Smythe winner was annouced, we often thought 'There are a lot of guys who could win it- I could see this guy or that guy winning it.'

What are some years that are more of the latter (Where there were multiple guys in the running, not one stand-out)?

To me, the following years were among those I recall wide-open:

2010 (Toews, Keith, Byufglien, Niemi were all candidates down the stretch)

2007 (Niedermayer won it, but I thought Giguere had a serious shot at becoming a two-time winner, Pahlsson, and Andy MacDonald all were in the running; plus Alfredsson as the 'valiant effort on SCF runner-up' player)

2004 (Brad Richards, Khabibulin, St. Louis for Tampa; Iginla and Kipper if Calgary won game 6)

1999 (Nieuwendyk and Belfour for Dallas, possibly Hasek in a losing effort)

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[GuineaPig]

2007 is the one that came to mind. Anaheim was a team with lots of people sharing the load. The only player in the final to really separate themselves from the pack was Alfredsson, but he lost. Neidermayer ended up winning it, but Pronger, Giguere, and Pahlsson, were all equally viable candidates.

 

[quoipourquoi]

2010, 2007, 2002, 1999, 1997, 1995, 1990, 1989, 1984, 1981


There were others (Osgood in 2008, Messier in 1994) that wouldn't have made me do a double-take, but those are probably the most talked about ones since the Islanders dynasty. 2002 and 2007 probably had the most wide-open field. 2002 was the year that Brendan Shanahan quipped, "Can Peter Forsberg still win it?'' 2007 was a total team effort by the Ducks, with players from three forward lines, two defensive pairings, and the goaltender getting consideration.


EDIT: Oh, and people talk about 2003 a lot too. Why? I have no idea. With all due respect to Niedermayer, 2003 is the biggest open-and-shut case since 1996.

 

[kmad]

2007 should have been Chris Pronger. 2006 should have been Rod Brind'Amour.

 

[GuineaPig]

I really thought that 2002 should have been Irbe. But if it had to be limited the Wings, it was definitely up in the air.

 

[reckoning]

2002: While Lidstrom was the correct choice, Yzerman was very much the sentimental favorite coming back from his injury, and it wouldn't have been a surprise to see him win it.

1995: Claude Lemieux won it, but Brodeur was considered an equally-likely candidate by many.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I really thought that 2002 should have been Irbe. But if it had to be limited the Wings, it was definitely up in the air.

Irbe was definitely hurt by platooning with Weekes against the Devils. If the Canes had won Game 3 against Detroit, I could see it happening though.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

2010 (Toews, Keith, Byufglien, Niemi were all candidates down the stretch)
)

I would have picked Kane over Niemi or Buff. He was the best Hawk in the finals IMO.

Shows how wide open it was

EDIT: Oh, and people talk about 2003 a lot too. Why? I have no idea. With all due respect to Niedermayer, 2003 is the biggest open-and-shut case since 1996.

because it's rare for the Smythe to go to a player whose relatively poor play in the finals is a reason his team lost, despite how much he owned the league before then

1995: Claude Lemieux won it, but Brodeur was considered an equally-likely candidate by many.

the NY/NJ media thought it was between Claude Lemieux and Scott Stevens

 

[quoipourquoi]

because it's rare for the Smythe to go to a player whose relatively poor play in the finals is a reason his team lost, despite how much he owned the league before then

His team lost because they were shutout through 60 minutes four times in a series and averaged fewer than two goals per game in their entire run. Giguere's save percentage in the Finals was above the league average for 2002-03, and that's even with it being skewed by his only bad game in the entire playoffs. And yes, Ron Hextall's save percentage dipped in the 1987 Finals too.


Elite Goaltending (.945) + Horrible Hockey Team (1.89 goals-per-game) + Game 7 of the SCF = Conn Smythe Trophy

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

I really have a hard time with the CS going to a player of the losing team. During the regular season is fine if it goes to a player whose team was middle of the road, but the playoffs is about winning the Cup. It should go to a player that best help the champions.

 

[WingsFan95]

Imagine if Giguerre won it again in 2007? Might make crap a TON more interesting in terms of his all-time status.

I think 02, 99, 06, 07, 08 and 09 were all "could have".

Some of the disagreements from me:

1999-Nieuwendyk, would have voted for Hasek or Forsberg ( if that's possible ).
2006-Ward, would have voted for Pisani on the losing side or maybe Staal.
2009-Malkin, Osgood or Franzen would have been good choices.

 

[Killion]

Well this is a disappointing thread. Here I thought I was going to discuss Connie Smythes fistabilities and instead?....
Had several toe to toes with Art Ross, but I guess no one cares?. Hey ho.

 

[GKJ]

2004, Richards was the only choice. He had like 10 GWG's. That's off the charts.

2007, I maintain that it should have been Sami Pahlsson.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Well this is a disappointing thread. Here I thought I was going to discuss Connie Smythes fistabilities and instead?....
Had several toe to toes with Art Ross, but I guess no one cares?. Hey ho.

awesome as per always.

Back to the tread, does anyone find it weird that Potvin never won a Conn Smythe despite being the cornerstone of that NYI dynasty?

Potvin might very well be the best playoff performer of all time not to win a CS IMO.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

1999 (Nieuwendyk and Belfour for Dallas, possibly Hasek in a losing effort)

I would have voted for Modano:

- Modano outscored Nieuwendyk by two points (which isn't a decisive point, but it adds to the overall argument)

- Nieuwendyk barely played on the penalty kill (less than 2 minutes over the course of the playoffs). Modano was second among Dallas forwards in PK ice time (69 minutes) and played exceptionally well - the team had a stunningly low 2.61 GAA while he was on the penalty kill.

- They had virtually identical GAAs at even strength (1.94 for Modano, 1.95 for Nieuwendyk), but Modano had tougher defensive matchups.

Nieuwendyk won the Smythe largely because everyone was obsessed with the "GWG" stat. I agree that he scored some important goals, but Modano was involved in no less than four game-winning points (May 15, May 17, June 17, June 19). Based on the value of his superior offense and defensive play, I would have given the Smythe to Modano.

2002: While Lidstrom was the correct choice, Yzerman was very much the sentimental favorite coming back from his injury, and it wouldn't have been a surprise to see him win it.

I agree that Lidstrom was the correct choice, but there were several good choices.

Here's a quote from a Sports Illustrated article from June 12, 2002 (the Wings were one game away from winning the Cup):

"The choices include Brett Hull, who has scored key goals in each of the last two games and leads all playoff scorers with 10 goals; defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom, who rarely leave the ice; goalie Dominik Hasek, who has a record six playoff shutouts; Sergei Fedorov, whose skating has created many of Detroit's scoring chances; and Steve Yzerman, the captain and Detroit's leading scorer.

"Can Peter Forsberg still win it?" Red Wings forward Brendan Shanahan said. "That doesn't happen too often, does it? I don't think we're worrying about that stuff, honestly. I mean, that hasn't entered anyone's mind and it's not our job to be focused on that, and so we won't be.""

 

[Big Phil]

2010 for me in recent years. Toews did not play great in the final, but Kane and Keith did. It could have gone to either three. But someone said Niemi up there? Man, he is the worst starting goalie to win in my lifetime and he wasn't exactly great in the final either.

2007 still could have gone to Pronger in my opinion and it wouldn't have been wrong. I've told a story on here before that when the last game of the 2007 final was on I wasn't home and I called my wife to see who won the Smythe. Her response was "Niedermayer." My response was: "Scott or Rob." So that gives you a glimpse into how off the radar Scott was.

2011, 2009, 2008, are all years that it went to the right guy but it could have gone to someone else had the losing team won. I could argue that Thomas and Malkin were good enough in their years to get it even if they lost.

2006 came down to Staal, Ward, BrindAmour and Pronger. I wasn't upset that Ward won though, just a wide open year though.

2004 and 2003 were fine. 2001 could have gone to Sakic, but Roy was fine. I'd have given it to Yzerman in 2002 though. I know there are people here who think Fedorov was jobbed in 1997 for not winning it because he was Russian, but if anything in 2002 I always got the feeling that if a European was close the media would give it to him just so one could finally win it. I mean, nothing against Lids, but do the Wings even get out of the first round without Yzerman?

1990 was a year where I thought it could have just as well gone to Messier too. Perhaps the right choice was made with Ranford though.

Geez, 1981? Goring wins it and Bossy gets 35 points while Potvin outpoints Goring as well. I don't know about that one and I am not the type who doesn't appreciate things WITHOUT the puck either. Was Goring really more important than Bossy in 1981?

1979 was a funny one. I know Lemaire publicly felt he should have won the Smythe since he and Lafleur tied for the lead in points but neither won it, Gainey did. Lafleur was always in the mix in all 4 Cup wins (he won in 1977). But 1979 was more wide open.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

His team lost because they were shutout through 60 minutes four times in a series and averaged fewer than two goals per game in their entire run. Giguere's save percentage in the Finals was above the league average for 2002-03, and that's even with it being skewed by his only bad game in the entire playoffs. And yes, Ron Hextall's save percentage dipped in the 1987 Finals too.


Elite Goaltending (.945) + Horrible Hockey Team (1.89 goals-per-game) + Game 7 of the SCF = Conn Smythe Trophy

You asked why it was controversial and I told you.

Many fans of Eastern Conference teams didn't pay close attention to the Red Wings and Stars series where apparently Giguere was godlike. There was the WCF where he had a relatively easy time against a Minnesota team that crashed down to Earth. And then Giguere entered the finals with a ton of hype and didn't perform all that well, at least not in the games in NJ.

I'm not even saying he didn't deserve it; just trying to explain why it would seem a controversial selection to someone who didn't really follow the Ducks run until later on.

The Devils were not a high scoring team and they scored at least 3 goals in all 4 games in NJ

 

[TasteofFlames]

The Devils were not a high scoring team and they scored at least 3 goals in all 4 games in NJ

To be fair, the Devils were 3rd in g/g (2.58 in 24gp) in the playoffs that year, and played 2 and 3 times as many games as the 1st and 2nd (St. Louis:3.0 in 7 and Dallas:2.83 in 12). They also led the league in scoring at home those playoffs with 39 goals and a 3.0 g/g (3rd behind Philly and Dallas, again in half as many games). So while they were middle of the pack in scoring during the regular season (14), they were comparatively very good at scoring during the cup run, especially at home. That said, Anaheim did give up 3.75 g/g in NJ during those finals, while only giving up 1.2 g/g on the road the rest of the playoffs (keep in mind these #s are slightly skewed due to the Devils scoring 6 goals in game 5).

 

[Derick*]

I don't think the loser is picked often enough.

Would have picked Hasek in 1999 and Pronger in both 2006 and 2010.

 

[seekritdude]

I really thought that 2002 should have been Irbe. But if it had to be limited the Wings, it was definitely up in the air.

I of course also agree. The award is suppose to go the player who is most valuable to his team in the playoffs. And irbe was more valuable to Carolina then anyone in Detroit was to their team.

 

[shadow1]

2010 was the most wide open I've seen. Toews had a poor showing in the Stanley Cup final, and Byfuglien was lighting it up with a team high 11 goals (seven in the final two rounds). Duncan Keith was also brilliant.

2007 was a case where none of the Ducks had outstanding post-seasons except the checking line, and in particular Pahlsson. But Niedermayer's OT goal against Detroit and game tying goal in game 5 of the same series won him the award.

2004 was a no-brainer.

 

[Derick*]

One argument that I hate about 2003 is the "Brodeur split the vote with other Devils. A majority of voters thought it should have gone to a Devil, therefore Brodeur was the rightful winner" argument.

You're arbitrarily treating the category of "a Devil" as essential. Say in 2011 Thomas got 45% of the vote and second was Krejci with 25%. You could say "55% of the voters thought it should have gone to a non-goaltender, therefore Krejci should have won." Or you could say "55% of the voters thought it should have gone to a non-Thomas entity, therefore Krejci should have won."

It's somewhat different if we assume Brodeur would have been those voter's second choice, but we don't know that.

 

[quoipourquoi]

You asked why it was controversial and I told you.

Many fans of Eastern Conference teams didn't pay close attention to the Red Wings and Stars series where apparently Giguere was godlike. There was the WCF where he had a relatively easy time against a Minnesota team that crashed down to Earth. And then Giguere entered the finals with a ton of hype and didn't perform all that well, at least not in the games in NJ.

I'm not even saying he didn't deserve it; just trying to explain why it would seem a controversial selection to someone who didn't really follow the Ducks run until later on.

The Devils were not a high scoring team and they scored at least 3 goals in all 4 games in NJ

If the answer is that the people who believe Niedermayer deserved it (you are one of those people, unless you've changed your mind recently) didn't watch Giguere in three-quarters of the playoffs, then exactly how controversial is it (they didn't watch him!)? We might as well say that every year is in controversy, because the opposing team's fans have only watched their team's games.

And no one should ever confuse a .992 SPCT in a Western Conference Final with being "relatively easy." His team still only registered two goals-per-game in the series. Had he played anything below a .927, his team would've been in serious trouble.

One argument that I hate about 2003 is the "Brodeur split the vote with other Devils. A majority of voters thought it should have gone to a Devil, therefore Brodeur was the rightful winner" argument.

Yeah, I really doubt the vote was split all that much. Obviously, there are some people that don't like losers to win the Conn Smythe, but other than that, there's really no way to justify saying any one player on the Devils was more responsible for his team's success (16 Wins) than Giguere was for his team's success (15 Wins).

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=24616

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I don't think the loser is picked often enough.

Would have picked Hasek in 1999 and Pronger in both 2006 and 2010.

I don't see how Pronger could have won in 2010. Versteeg and Sharp absolutely embarrassing him in Game 5 of the final was basically the turning point for the Stanley Cup. If a Flyer were to win in 2010, it's tough to argue against Briere.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I don't see how Pronger could have won in 2010. Versteeg and Sharp absolutely embarrassing him in Game 5 of the final was basically the turning point for the Stanley Cup. If a Flyer were to win in 2010, it's tough to argue against Briere.

It was the turning point because while they were "absolutely embarrassing him in Game 5," Pronger had just finished embarrassing the Blackhawks in the first four games - particularly Game 4 - giving the Flyers an undeserved split. Hell, Pronger outscored Toews in that series.