Years that European players would have won NHL accolades
- Thread starter Professor What
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Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
TheStatican
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Makarov.
Probably would have won the RW all star nod in '80, '81, '84, '86, '87, '88 And in an absolutely ideal situation I see him not only winning the Ross in 79-80 but maybe even giving Gretzky a decent run for his money in 80-81. I mean if Kucherov can outscore McDavid and hit 140+ then I don't see how it's a stretch at all to suggest Markov could have hit 150-odd points at least once in early 80's.
Probably would have won the RW all star nod in '80, '81, '84, '86, '87, '88 And in an absolutely ideal situation I see him not only winning the Ross in 79-80 but maybe even giving Gretzky a decent run for his money in 80-81. I mean if Kucherov can outscore McDavid and hit 140+ then I don't see how it's a stretch at all to suggest Markov could have hit 150-odd points at least once in early 80's.
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Dingo
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if he had ended up with Stastny, Hawerchuk or Savard.... it gets exciting thinking about the numbers that might have been put up by both Makarov and his centre)
and, i have always thought that Fetisov's true dominant years actually coincided with some of the weakest Norris winners in the NHL.
its a reputation award, and we may have been hesitant to give it to a Soviet, but i gotts think he beats out Wilson/Carlyle/Langway at least a couple of times?
Also Kharlamov... although, much tougher to be accepted in the 70s.... would have needed to waste a linemate on a goon who liked him..... but I have a hard time thinking he wasnt as capable of producing offense as Lafleur, Dionne or Clarke.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
I'm going to keep trying some outside shots knowing that the Tretiak/Fetisov/Makarov type stuff is going to come out organically...
Johan Holmqvist for the 2009 Vezina. He won the Honken Trophy for Elitserien (Swedish) goalie of the year. 49 GP 27-18-2, 2.17 GAA, .917 save pct. 2 SO.
His backup was former first round pick Ari Ahonen, he had a 4-4-1, 2.86/.886 combo.
(Thomas's backups - a rookie in his fourth NHL game and an old journeyman - were 17-8-3, 2.50/.914, 2 SO.
We seem to generally realize now that the NHL was in the DPE 2.0 after the nuNHL settled down again while also becoming too fast for its own good. Thomas was useless when not under the Julien/Bergeron/Chara triumvirate.
Not taking questions at this time, thank you.
Johan Holmqvist for the 2009 Vezina. He won the Honken Trophy for Elitserien (Swedish) goalie of the year. 49 GP 27-18-2, 2.17 GAA, .917 save pct. 2 SO.
His backup was former first round pick Ari Ahonen, he had a 4-4-1, 2.86/.886 combo.
(Thomas's backups - a rookie in his fourth NHL game and an old journeyman - were 17-8-3, 2.50/.914, 2 SO.
We seem to generally realize now that the NHL was in the DPE 2.0 after the nuNHL settled down again while also becoming too fast for its own good. Thomas was useless when not under the Julien/Bergeron/Chara triumvirate.
Not taking questions at this time, thank you.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Helmut Balderis for second-team AS at RW in 1977. Balderis led the Soviet League in goals (40) and points (63) and was Soviet Player of the Year. He was also WC best forward if that counts here too.
I'm guessing Lafleur is untouchable. Balderis was a hell of a talent.
I'm guessing Lafleur is untouchable. Balderis was a hell of a talent.
Yozhik v tumane
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TheStatican
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Yozhik v tumane
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So you're on team Suchy huh? He was a great legend in Czechoslovakia who led the league in scoring in 68/69 and some nicknamed him the the European Orr. On the other hand the Czech league was more or less a minor league not even comparable with the Soviet league. Patrick Nagle of the Ottawa Journal compared him to Pierre Pilote.
The penalty killing of Jan Suchy during his peak years: A video study
One thing that has impressed me very much when watching peak Jan Suchy play is how great of a penalty killer he was. Because of this I decided to take a in-depth look at the penalty killing of Suchy during the 66/67-70/71 time frame by analyzing the available video footage from major...
Yakushev also scored a 50 the year before.
Clarke in particular thought Yakushev and Kharlamov could win a Hart:
Tretiak was one of the best goalies. Kharlamov and Yakushev could have won a Hart trophy each – that goes without saying. Petrov and Maltsev would have become NHL stars. The rest of the players of the 1972 team would have at least made the league.
Makarov could definitely win in 80/81 as it was his best season ever and Gretzky was still a season away from reaching his peak.
I once did a hypothetical what if there was a the best player in the world award and it was objectively decided (let's say by a supercomputer AI which had access to all games) who would be winning? Safe to say there would not be that many non-Canadians. Pre 1960? Not a chance. Would Firsov be able to snatch an award from prime Hull sometime in the mid 60s? Or Balderis from prime Lafleur/Potvin sometime a decade later? What about Makarov from the young Gretzky before he started hitting 200? I am not totally sure about any of them to be honest. Jagr and Hasek become the clear first ones and likely still would have had Lemieux not retired. Forsberg is winning one in 02/03. Jagr another one in 06. Ovi is getting at least 2 and Kane one in 15/16 but then it's all Canadians again (Crosby and McDavid) until today.
It's definitely much easier done when not competing against prime Orr/Grezky/Lemieux.
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They beat the Soviets both at the 1968 Winter Olympics as well as at the 1969 World Championships though, so at top level there wasn't that much of a gap.
WarriorofTime
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Radulov had his best years in the KHL, he was 32nd in NHL in PPG 2017-18 through 2018-19 with first line ice time at ages 31 and 32. He likely could have challenged for some Right Wing All-Star consideration.
2008-09: Iginla-Hossa
2009-10: Kane-St. Louis
2010-11: Perry-St. Louis
2011-12: Neal-Gaborik
2012-13: Ovechkin-St. Louis
2013-14: Perry-Ovechkin
2014-15: Voracek-Tarasenko
2015-16: Kane-Tarasenko
He was KHL MVP in 2009-10, 2010-11, 2011-12 and 2014-15 for reference.
2008-09: Iginla-Hossa
2009-10: Kane-St. Louis
2010-11: Perry-St. Louis
2011-12: Neal-Gaborik
2012-13: Ovechkin-St. Louis
2013-14: Perry-Ovechkin
2014-15: Voracek-Tarasenko
2015-16: Kane-Tarasenko
He was KHL MVP in 2009-10, 2010-11, 2011-12 and 2014-15 for reference.
JackSlater
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If all star nominations count then the obvious answers of Makarov and Fetisov should factor in. Fetisov could clean up some of the ugly Norris trophies in the early 1980s and perhaps swing some after that, and would probably have been a factor in all star voting assuming he had a chance to play in the NHL young enough. Makarov should have taken a bunch of RW all star first or second teams, but I doubt the major hardware is possible due to Gretzky.
I'm not sure that Tretiak would be a factor in awards if his team situation in the NHL wasn't good. Who knows with goaltending though, maybe he or Holocek would get on a strong team and regularly be a contender for all star consideration.
I'm not sure that Tretiak would be a factor in awards if his team situation in the NHL wasn't good. Who knows with goaltending though, maybe he or Holocek would get on a strong team and regularly be a contender for all star consideration.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Tretiak was drafted by Montreal...if that actually came to fruition, who knows what happens with Patrick Roy...
BigBadBruins7708
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I'm going to keep trying some outside shots knowing that the Tretiak/Fetisov/Makarov type stuff is going to come out organically...
Johan Holmqvist for the 2009 Vezina. He won the Honken Trophy for Elitserien (Swedish) goalie of the year. 49 GP 27-18-2, 2.17 GAA, .917 save pct. 2 SO.
His backup was former first round pick Ari Ahonen, he had a 4-4-1, 2.86/.886 combo.
(Thomas's backups - a rookie in his fourth NHL game and an old journeyman - were 17-8-3, 2.50/.914, 2 SO.
We seem to generally realize now that the NHL was in the DPE 2.0 after the nuNHL settled down again while also becoming too fast for its own good. Thomas was useless when not under the Julien/Bergeron/Chara triumvirate.
Not taking questions at this time, thank you.
his only year away from them in the NHL was at 39 after a year off.
Ironically, in the spirit of the thread, he won the equivalent of a Hart, Pearson, Vezina, Cup in SM-Liiga and made 2 additional Finals.
A bit disingenuous to call Tuukka Rask "a rookie in his 4th NHL game". And to be fair, that .914/2.50 line is a big step down from Thomas's .933/2.10 and would've had them T-27th in sv% and 24th in GAA
MadLuke
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Some rookie of the year would have been possible.
Can Selanne challenge Bure if he start in 92, Panarin Ekblad, Forsberg Brodeur if he start in 94, that a noisy trophy, Malkin probably not Ovechkin but who knows, Stasny the year he would have come....
Can Selanne challenge Bure if he start in 92, Panarin Ekblad, Forsberg Brodeur if he start in 94, that a noisy trophy, Malkin probably not Ovechkin but who knows, Stasny the year he would have come....
WarriorofTime
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Professor What
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VanIslander
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Professor What
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Probably 1968 too. Thirty-one points in 46 games isn't that much, and while I've not seen complete stats for Suchy that year, he apparently had 24 goals.
This has gotten me thinking about how some of the better Czechoslovakian seasons would rate in the NHL. One in particular is Milan Novy's 90 points in 44 games in 1976-77, especially since Czechoslvakia won the gold in the world championships that year.
Gretzky thinks everybody might have won a Hart.
Novy for some reason doesn't seem to be so highly regarded in the Czech Republic. In 98 Czech sports journalists, coaches, and other experts made a ranking with Novy ranked at 17.
Don't expect the ranking to be completely unbiased. There is a recency bias and the 1940s generation is heavily overrated due to the persecution they faced from the communist government for their pro-western views. Hlinka being the head coach of the Nagano wonderteam helped too.
Professor What
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Yeah, that list is... interesting....Novy for some reason doesn't seem to be so highly regarded in the Czech Republic. In 98 Czech sports journalists, coaches, and other experts made a ranking with Novy ranked at 17.
Don't expect the ranking to be completely unbiased. There is a recency bias and the 1940s generation is heavily overrated due to the persecution they faced from the communist government for their pro-western views. Hlinka being the head coach of the Nagano wonderteam helped too.
I think the Czechs don't realize that the WC stats from the 40s and 50s don't mean the same as they would later on. Canada was represented by minor league players and still dominated most of the tournaments. In comparison to the NHLers all international hockey teams throughout the 40s and 50s were absolute trash.
What is more interesting is that if we isolate for the 60s-70s players we get this:
1) Martinec
2) Hlinka (likely overrated due to him being the coach in Nagano, the list was made in 98 after all)
3) Suchy
4) Jiri Holik
5) Nedomansky
6) Holecek
7) Pospisil
8) Jaroslav Holík
9) Cerny
10) Milan Nový
No idea why Novy is ranked so low when he absolutely dominated the league scoring. Also Slovak players are not included on the list.
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