Xavier Ouellet

[ProPAIN]

He doesn't need wheels, there are plenty of top d-men who aren't speedsters. If he can work on positioning, defensive instincts and passing ability (all skills he's already pretty decent at) then he could be a useful player for the future.

I know it's sacrilegious to even compare, but Lidstrom was never a fast skater or physically imposing, but no one compared to him in terms of positioning, decision-making, passing and obviously offensive instincts. On top of that he had stamina so he had longevity too.

Not saying Ouellet will be like him by any stretch of the imagination, just pointing out there are players like him who can be good on the blue line, if they work on their strengths.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

How long did Holmstrom play? He always was a slow skater.

He didn't have to learn to skate fast. "Get in front of the goalie and you'll win cups"

 

[silkyjohnson50]

He didn't have to learn to skate fast. "Get in front of the goalie and you'll win cups"

The point though is that there is really no learning to skate fast. You either have it or you don't. It comes down to genetics and the muscle fibers that you're born with.

A 23 year old NHLer who has been playing high level hockey forever isn't going to work out more and learn new skating techniques and then all of a sudden become noticeably faster. Guys can certainly get stronger on their skates, but speed is either there or not there.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The point though is that there is really no learning to skate fast. You either have it or you don't. It comes down to genetics and the muscle fibers that you're born with.

A 23 year old NHLer who has been playing high level hockey forever isn't going to work out more and learn new skating techniques and then all of a sudden become noticeably faster. Guys can certainly get stronger on their skates, but speed is either there or not there.

He's not ever going to be fast. But he doesn't need to be he's a stay at home dman who has a good enough pass to produce like a 2nd pair dman. People put waaaay too much on skating it's not like we're asking him to log 30 minutes a night and play like a top dman. Worst case scenario He's a fantastic bottom pair dman. Or we get an amazing top 3 group to pair him with

 

[Mijatovic]

Worst case scenario is hes fantastic bottom pairing? LOL Yeah okay.

He's mediocre with next to no creativity and isn't just not fast. He's one of the slowest skaters in the NHL. Hes got a middling size to him.

Hes like Jonathon Ericcson but slower, and not as big. Thats the perspective for you.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The point though is that there is really no learning to skate fast. You either have it or you don't. It comes down to genetics and the muscle fibers that you're born with.

A 23 year old NHLer who has been playing high level hockey forever isn't going to work out more and learn new skating techniques and then all of a sudden become noticeably faster. Guys can certainly get stronger on their skates, but speed is either there or not there.

I think it at this point it is unlikely for big skating gains. With that said guys like Brian Boyle have made huge skating gains after the age you just outlined. The problem with XO is he doesn't really have huge skating deficiencies in terms of stride and things of that nature so the pickup should be minimal. If he can figure out a way to make a Boyle like gain we have a really good D-man.

Worst case scenario is hes fantastic bottom pairing? LOL Yeah okay.

He's mediocre with next to no creativity and isn't just not fast. He's one of the slowest skaters in the NHL. Hes got a middling size to him.

Hes like Jonathon Ericcson but slower, and not as big. Thats the perspective for you.

Other than the fact XO has the most hockey IQ of anybody on the back-end that would be a good comparison. He already is a pretty fantastic third pairing guy. Smart defensively responsible player that will stick up for teammates.

By the way and I know Ericsson isn't popular at times here but having a 10 year NHL career isn't the embarrassment a lot of HF posters seem to think it is.

 

[Mijatovic]

Other than the fact XO has the most hockey IQ of anybody on the back-end that would be a good comparison. He already is a pretty fantastic third pairing guy. Smart defensively responsible player that will stick up for teammates.

By the way and I know Ericsson isn't popular at times here but having a 10 year NHL career isn't the embarrassment a lot of HF posters seem to think it is.

I disagree with the IQ suggestions immensely. I just dont see it. He doesnt make many blatant obvious mistakes but that doesnt make him a smart player.

And I am not having a go at Ericsson. I am just saying, I still prefer him to XO because he brings more to the team.

 

[Ezekial]

I'm gonna go ahead throw my hat into the high IQ low athletic ability camp.

 

[Leronziia]

#4 D-man.

Plays a smart/safe/gritty game, but lacks the mobility to be a #3 or #2.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I disagree with the IQ suggestions immensely. I just dont see it. He doesnt make many blatant obvious mistakes but that doesnt make him a smart player.

And I am not having a go at Ericsson. I am just saying, I still prefer him to XO because he brings more to the team.

How so? He makes less mistakes you pretty much admitted that. Don't give me the size argument and skating doesn't mean much when both aren't great at it. Ouellet is slightly better at production and could progress while Ericsson would regress and if your talking about both primes ouellet is likely still better

 

[Pavels Dog]

With hard work he'll be moving like Jensen.

XO is slow. He's always going to be slow as a NHL player no matter how much work he puts in.

There's an ocean in between slow and Nick Jensen. XO will never cross it but he can make strides. A slightly better first step or two for example would go a long way for him.

Maybe he can't make progress, but you should probably tell him so he doesn't waste his time:
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/04/red_wings_xavier_ouellet_aims.html

"My goal last summer was to get a little bigger, a little stronger, which I did," he said. "I'm happy about. But I think moving on now, I need to work on speed, maybe get a little lighter, but stay as strong. I'm going to try to get a little faster, a little quicker on the ice."

 

[Frk It]

We need defenseman that have puck skills and are mobile. Thankfully we have prospects that fit that bill, and I hope we draft a bunch more over the next few years.

Ouellet was solid last year, but guys like him are easily replaceable IMO.

There's an ocean in between slow and Nick Jensen. XO will never cross it but he can make strides. A slightly better first step or two for example would go a long way for him.

Maybe he can't make progress, but you should probably tell him so he doesn't waste his time:
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/04/red_wings_xavier_ouellet_aims.html

He's made very minimal gains to his skating over the last 5 years. It's not like this is the first summer he's working on his skating.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He's made very minimal gains to his skating over the last 5 years. It's not like this is the first summer he's working on his skating.

Can't speak to how he skated 5 years ago, but I thought he looked way more mobile this season than when he first came up. This year his speed was hardly even an issue imo, though he needs to get a bit quicker if he's to be anything more than a #4-5. It won't be a night and day difference from one season to the next, but I doubt 2012 XO would have any chance in a footrace against 2017 XO.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Can't speak to how he skated 5 years ago, but I thought he looked way more mobile this season than when he first came up. This year his speed was hardly even an issue imo, though he needs to get a bit quicker if he's to be anything more than a #4-5. It won't be a night and day difference from one season to the next, but I doubt 2012 XO would have any chance in a footrace against 2017 XO.

I think it's especially tough for him because he came in right as mobility for defensemen became incredibly important. When he first came up, DeKeyser was a tremendous skater, but today by comparison he's just pretty good. A guy like Ouellet has to make serious gains in skating to keep up in that kind of league.

I don't think it's necessarily that Ouellet can't be a solid player with his skating, it's just that he's farther away from the league's ideal of a defenseman than ever.

 

[Frk It]

Can't speak to how he skated 5 years ago, but I thought he looked way more mobile this season than when he first came up. This year his speed was hardly even an issue imo, though he needs to get a bit quicker if he's to be anything more than a #4-5. It won't be a night and day difference from one season to the next, but I doubt 2012 XO would have any chance in a footrace against 2017 XO.

Well his starting point was bad, so that doesn't help. Andersson improved his skating a lot too and he's in Europe right now.

Tatar is a guy who has made great progress with his skating over the last 5 years. If XO had progressed similarly we might be looking at a guy like Paul Martin or a Vlasic Lite.

Not sure he'll ever be able to be a big minute guy, to be able to be a big minute guy you have to be able to hold your own against top line forwards, and most top line forwards in the league are plus skaters. His positioning is really good but I think he might always be susceptible against fast wingers making rushes out wide.

He seems like a hard worker, so I'm sure he'll do everything he can.

 

[Winger98]

Can't speak to how he skated 5 years ago, but I thought he looked way more mobile this season than when he first came up. This year his speed was hardly even an issue imo, though he needs to get a bit quicker if he's to be anything more than a #4-5. It won't be a night and day difference from one season to the next, but I doubt 2012 XO would have any chance in a footrace against 2017 XO.

I think that's a testament to how well he reads the play and consistently puts himself into position to be involved in the play and not get burned. I really liked him this past season and think he could hold down a spot on the second pairing, He would not be able to "carry" a partner, but he could be a very good compliment to someone who has some other flaws in their game or definitely just hold his own with a better partner.

Still, I think it's his skating that will keep him from being a top pairing guy.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think it's especially tough for him because he came in right as mobility for defensemen became incredibly important. When he first came up, DeKeyser was a tremendous skater, but today by comparison he's just pretty good. A guy like Ouellet has to make serious gains in skating to keep up in that kind of league.

I don't think it's necessarily that Ouellet can't be a solid player with his skating, it's just that he's farther away from the league's ideal of a defenseman than ever.

Yet he had a pretty good year all things considered. I think we've known for a long time that XO will never be a #1D, but this season was very promising for him and unless he starts regressing he'll likely carve out a career as a #4D at least.

 

[Mijatovic]

How so? He makes less mistakes you pretty much admitted that. Don't give me the size argument and skating doesn't mean much when both aren't great at it. Ouellet is slightly better at production and could progress while Ericsson would regress and if your talking about both primes ouellet is likely still better

Where did I admit he made less mistakes than Ericcson? I Just said he doesnt make many mistakes.

Ill give you that size argument because he cant hold back players like Ericsson can, and hes slower, so he cant keep up. Slightly better production? No. Almost identical which both are the equivalent of nothing but a few incidental assists.

High IQ? Maybe he could if he could spring a few nice passes to our forwards then it might show in those point totals.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Where did I admit he made less mistakes than Ericcson? I Just said he doesnt make many mistakes.

Ill give you that size argument because he cant hold back players like Ericsson can, and hes slower, so he cant keep up. Slightly better production? No. Almost identical which both are the equivalent of nothing but a few incidental assists.

High IQ? Maybe he could if he could spring a few nice passes to our forwards then it might show in those point totals.

Yeah exactly. He doesn't make many mistakes. Is Ericsson a god in the dzone or something? He's better at producing looking at some stats you would see it very easily. It's not much better but it's better.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I think he will slot in as a solid #2 eventually, skates and handles the puck rather well, comfortable in the defensive zone unlike other panicky players that usually hang out in that area.

From what I have seen, I haven't seen him skate rather well at all. As a matter of fact, him being so slow is one of the reasons I've never liked him so much.

 

[vladdy16]

Oulette is being underappreciated here.

He's not even 24 yet, and last season was essentially his rookie season. He transitioned from playing with a 60% o-zone start rate in his first 25 games, to putting up 12 points last year with a 48% o-zone start rate. He only had 21 giveaways in 66 games.

He was a noticeably steady force for most of the Red Wings positive streaks last year, and he finished with a positive plus minus, despite a decent workload on a team that ended up tanking.

If we had discovered Oulette as a NCAA or international signing as a 23 yo last year, and he put together a rookie season like that, I think people would be a lot more excited about it. He's a full 3 years younger than Jensen.

A defensemen can improve by leaps and bounds between the ages of 24 and 27, if Oullette can get to the point where he's comfortable regaining the puck down the ice, and grow his offense to around 10 g's a year, he'd be a cup calibur #3-5.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Oulette is being underappreciated here.

He's not even 24 yet, and last season was essentially his rookie season. He transitioned from playing with a 60% o-zone start rate in his first 25 games, to putting up 12 points last year with a 48% o-zone start rate. He only had 21 giveaways in 66 games.

He was a noticeably steady force for most of the Red Wings positive streaks last year, and he finished with a positive plus minus, despite a decent workload on a team that ended up tanking.

If we had discovered Oulette as a NCAA or international signing as a 23 yo last year, and he put together a rookie season like that, I think people would be a lot more excited about it. He's a full 3 years younger than Jensen.

A defensemen can improve by leaps and bounds between the ages of 24 and 27, if Oullette can get to the point where he's comfortable regaining the puck down the ice, and grow his offense to around 10 g's a year, he'd be a cup calibur #3-5.

10 goals a year? Mike Green can barely do that in this system. I would say that's a little ambitious.

 

[vladdy16]

I agree, but Andrei Markov has reached double digit goals 6 times in his career, and he's working with roughly the same tools as Ouellet.

It's ambitious, but you can figure some stuff out over the course 200 games/3 years. And if the Red Wings system looks anything like the last 2 years, 3 years from now, all points are moot anyhow.

If I'm remembering right, though he only had 3 last year, the times he did score seemed to come in situations where we were falling behind a couple and Ouellet was making a concerted effort to be more offensive. So as he gets more comfortable controlling tempo, he might be able to plug in on the offensive end at an increasing rate.

Ouellet went from 2 to 8 to 21 goals his first three years of juniors. Obviously his prodcution in the AHL was more modest, but he's produced legitimate offense in the postseason of juniors,AHL and the WJC. So if he's anything more than a bottom pairing d-man, I expect to see him get a hold on the o-zone a bit at some point.

I'm not ecstatic about Ouellet by any means, obviously controlling the pace of play and becoming more engaged offensively only follows if Ouellet has the hips and intensity to keep up in open ice as his ice time and competition faced increases, which I'm only cautiously optimistic about. But he's really the only adult d-prospect we have, and Andrei Markov lite would be a good enough asset moving forward.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

10 goals a year? Mike Green can barely do that in this system. I would say that's a little ambitious.

Danny d Probably could do it. 8 in 78.

 

[HIFE]

Oulette is being underappreciated here.

He's not even 24 yet, and last season was essentially his rookie season. He transitioned from playing with a 60% o-zone start rate in his first 25 games, to putting up 12 points last year with a 48% o-zone start rate. He only had 21 giveaways in 66 games.

He was a noticeably steady force for most of the Red Wings positive streaks last year, and he finished with a positive plus minus, despite a decent workload on a team that ended up tanking.

If we had discovered Oulette as a NCAA or international signing as a 23 yo last year, and he put together a rookie season like that, I think people would be a lot more excited about it. He's a full 3 years younger than Jensen.

A defensemen can improve by leaps and bounds between the ages of 24 and 27, if Oullette can get to the point where he's comfortable regaining the puck down the ice, and grow his offense to around 10 g's a year, he'd be a cup calibur #3-5.

It's a hopeful sentiment but I think your overrating Ouellet. I just don't see the same potential. I agree with the compliments to his IQ and making simple plays but so can Russo. Or Ericsson for that matter. Unfortunately though his skating is possibly the worst in the NHL and that is a gigantic weakness. Not just speed but the mobility needed in all aspects of the game- XO doesn't have it.

As for cup caliber I'd say barely playoff roster honestly. For Pittsburgh- Cole, Maatta, Dumoulin, Hainsey, Schultz, even old man Daley...you really think with the way that team is rolling XO could secure a place on their blueline? Schultz only plays 15-20 minutes but is a bonafide offensive threat. Hainsey is an ugly beast but he gets the damn job done. Nashville, Anaheim, Washington, St.Louis...Ouellet is nowhere near. May be as a #6 or 7??? I'd rank him with Smith or Ottawa's Wideman- extremely mediocre to a near liability.

I place him 5th on the Wings D only ahead of Russo and Kronwall. I still don't see the potential to be on a 2nd pair in the NHL.

Green
DeKeyser (yes this is horrible)
Jensen
Ericsson
Ouellet
Russo
Kronwall

I do like him as a person and jumping topics a bit agree with the logic of protecting him over DeKeyser. For as much as I'm downing the guy I'd rather him than an over 30 UFA this summer. Keep XO until someone from within overtakes his spot.