Recalled/Assigned: Xavier Ouellet

[odin1981]

Brewer is a UFA. Leopold is a UFA. Allen is a UFA. Kindl is signed for 2 more years. That's what's keeping him off other teams' radar. Fortunately, Kindl is the youngest and would be the cheapest of all those guys if we retained 20%. But I don't see Winnipeg biting on Kindl. Chevy is as trade averse as Holland is and I highly doubt being in the playoff hunt for one of the few times in his tenure is going to make him interested in changing his roster. Kindl also might not even be in Winnipeg's top 7. They have solid depth on D.

Edmonton should be the team interested in Kindl. Kindl would actually be the 2nd highest scoring defenseman on Edmonton, after Schultz. They've got Nikitin playing over 2 minutes of PP time per game and he's got just 5 points. Their other option is Brad Hunt, a career AHLer who didn't put up impressive offensive numbers in the pros until he was a 25 year old in the AHL. And really, Lowe has no business being worried about the fact that Kindl is signed for two more years. Edmonton has a hard enough time attracting NHL players, let alone getting them to sign there without overpayment in years or term.

One would think he would be wanted for the sole reason that he is Detroit trained and breed. That organization is a mess. Even some of there #1's are being questioned now. Kindl could slot into the second pairing d and play on the pp easily for them. I know if I was kenny I wouldn't be asking for much for him. 5th to 7th rounder tops. I trust the development side of this organization to let Hakan take a extra shot at someone late in the draft.

 

[Flowah]

One would think he would be wanted for the sole reason that he is Detroit trained and breed. That organization is a mess. Even some of there #1's are being questioned now. Kindl could slot into the second pairing d and play on the pp easily for them. I know if I was kenny I wouldn't be asking for much for him. 5th to 7th rounder tops. I trust the development side of this organization to let Hakan take a extra shot at someone late in the draft.

I've certainly wondered about that. Surely, teams around the league have to be looking at the Wings and the emergence of the kids as a sign of properly drafted and developed players, at forward at least. I've wondered if that buys/will buy Detroit any more give in trade discussions.

However, I think even if that exists for the forwards (and I'm not sure it does) it doesn't for the defense yet.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 1m1 minute ago
Holland said Ouellet will be sent down when Smith is activated.

Welp there it is. **** you Holland

you got to love a GM who deliberately wants to ice an inferior club

waive lashoff if you cant trade kindl and then just sit kindl in the pressbox

lashoff isnt so amazing with a great future that you cant posisbly afford to risk losing him on waivers

 

[FlashyG]

Much like losing Nestrasil I'd have no problem losing either Kindl or Lashoff if they were claimed going through waivers.

Ouellet has looked better than both and I'm disappointed he's not getting to stay.

Hopefully he forces them to change their minds with a strong game tomorrow vs Vancouver.

 

[KJoe88]

Good job, Kenny. Not really...

:/

 

[The Geelee]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/11/red_wings_brendan_smith_might.html

"I think it's really good for him and it's good for us because you know what you have," Babcock said. "He's an NHL defenseman, no question about it.

Good to know that we have a young, steady NHL D-man in the AHL just because he can be sent down without having to go to waivers. The Ken Holland way

 

[jaster]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/11/red_wings_brendan_smith_might.html


Good to know that we have a young, steady NHL D-man in the AHL just because he can be sent down without having to go to waivers. The Ken Holland way

Provides nice depth.

 

[FlashyG]

Provides nice depth.

Normally I'm all about having depth and I feel that way about the forward group because outside of Pulkinnen, there isn't much on the Griffins that are really showing they are already NHL ready.

On defence though if we lost Lashoff or Kindl to waivers we'd still have enough NHL ready defenceman to easily get us through a rash of injuries to other defenders.

Though not all of them are ready for regular NHL duties in a pinch any one of Backman, Jensen, Marchenko or Sproul could fill in while injuries healed.

 

[Claypool]

Provides nice depth.

Also gives management confidence that they can deal players like Kindl or Quincy in the trade deadline/offseason and not worry about the backend suffering. I think Ouellet will be up here full time before the season ends. More injuries will happen. Kindl will likely still be in the doghouse.

This quote suggets Holland would deal Kindl if he can get a good offer.

"That's why at the trade deadline lots of teams are always trying to add one more defenseman," Holland said. "X, obviously, the way he battles, he's probably higher than eighth on our depth chart, but it's good to know as a young player we can keep him playing (in Grand Rapids)

 

[jaster]

Normally I'm all about having depth and I feel that way about the forward group because outside of Pulkinnen, there isn't much on the Griffins that are really showing they are already NHL ready.

On defence though if we lost Lashoff or Kindl to waivers we'd still have enough NHL ready defenceman to easily get us through a rash of injuries to other defenders.

Though not all of them are ready for regular NHL duties in a pinch any one of Backman, Jensen, Marchenko or Sproul could fill in while injuries healed.

Jensen or Marchenko, maybe, but they aren't proven. They are guys you want to get some looks, but not depend on (Backman and Sproul are even further out). We've got 8 NHL defenseman right now, by my count, which I think is the minimum you want with this many games remaining in the season. Just keep cycling Ouellet in when guys go down, while letting him play top-pair minutes in GR in between, for the next few months. Then when roster limits are gone, you promote him to the #6 guy and let Kindl and Lashoff sit.

 

[FlashyG]

Jensen or Marchenko, maybe, but they aren't proven. They are guys you want to get some looks, but not depend on (Backman and Sproul are even further out). We've got 8 NHL defenseman right now, by my count, which I think is the minimum you want with this many games remaining in the season. Just keep cycling Ouellet in when guys go down, while letting him play top-pair minutes in GR in between, for the next few months. Then when roster limits are gone, you promote him to the #6 guy and let Kindl and Lashoff sit.

I don't have any problem with that scenario at all, I just think we have an over abundance of defenceman right now and I'd like to see the guys that need a bit more time (Sproul and Backman) get more minutes in Grand Rapids while guys like Ouellet get more NHL time to keep the pipeline moving.

Roster spots are going to be at a premium in Grand Rapids next year if some of the current crop doesn't graduate as Hicketts, McNulty and Wheaton will all be turning pro in addition to the fact that the team likes to carry a couple of veterans like Paetch and Evans this season.

Its looking more and more like we are going to have some good prospects playing in Toledo.

 

[Dotter]

I really think Holland has to trade Kindl. Ouellet has looked better in the games I've seen him play plus, Brewer was just traded, with TB holding 26% of his salary, to Anaheim for a 3rd pick. You have to think that a team like Winnipeg, who need a LHD, would at least trade a 5th ou 6th rounder for him.

Ouellet will be back soon enough I hope.

Agreed. Ouellet is ready to make the leap to the bigs. Kindl played good yesterday only because he know's his end here is near.

Problem is, Holland's dilemma is commendable. Kindl is too good to lose for nothing and I would be PISSED if he was waived (and claimed). On the other side of the coin, XO is ready to fill his minutes.

So I guess all we can hope for at this point is Kindl plays good so he can eventually be traded for assets, then call up XO and give him a permanent spot on the roster.

At this point, the only logical thing Holland can do is to send XO down.

 

[jaster]

I don't have any problem with that scenario at all, I just think we have an over abundance of defenceman right now and I'd like to see the guys that need a bit more time (Sproul and Backman) get more minutes in Grand Rapids while guys like Ouellet get more NHL time to keep the pipeline moving.

That's a legit point. But I do think we should be maintaining the depth we have at the moment. So here we are At some point, the pendulum will swing the other way though. I think that will start to happen at the trade deadline. Ouellet will move up to #6, and then Kindl will be waived or moved somewhere between March (trade deadline) and October (opening night). And one of our other D prospects (Marchenko? Jensen?) will be in the same role next season that Ouellet is in this season.

Roster spots are going to be at a premium in Grand Rapids next year if some of the current crop doesn't graduate as Hicketts, McNulty and Wheaton will all be turning pro in addition to the fact that the team likes to carry a couple of veterans like Paetch and Evans this season.

Its looking more and more like we are going to have some good prospects playing in Toledo.

I don't think there should be any effort to get guys like that to higher levels, if it's at the expense of Detroit. They are too low on the priority list. Meaning, if they have to play in Toledo because only Ouellet is in Detroit next season, so be it. I don't like the idea of McNulty of Wheaton being a factor in deciding where to put someone like Marchenko or Jensen.

 

[Frk It]

Nestrasil and Lashoff have nothing to do with each other though.

Losing Nestrasil is the opposite of hoarding players. They let him go. Had they sent down Jurco and kept Nestrasil, that would be more like hoarding players.

Ouellet will go down when Smith gets back, and that's ok if you're willing to be patient.

If you are willing to lose Nestrasil, you should have no qualms with waiving a guy like Lashoff. Or even Kindl.

That is my point. And Ouellet and Jurco are making this team better than their alternatives, with the upside to improve further on what they are providing right now.

So if you are ok waiving Nestrasil, you should have no qualms with waiving the defensive equivalents. But that doesn't seem to be the case. I think it's dumb, especially considering Ouellet is a guy Babcock really wants.

 

[srice47]

Ouellet has looked like a rock out there! It's too bad they sent him down.

 

[davecrockburn]

Holland has lost his stones. Its OKAY to lose a guy like Kindl or Lashoff when you have Ouellet, Marchenko, Backman, Jensen, Sproul all ready to prove themselves and step in.

Its not like we are hurting for depth defensively. If we let go of Kindl or Lashoff to play Ouellet we still have 4 NHL level dmen in GR to step up in the case of one or multiple injuries.

 

[jaster]

If you are willing to lose Nestrasil, you should have no qualms with waiving a guy like Lashoff. Or even Kindl.

I do. Those guys have significantly more value than Nestrasil.

Depth on the blueline is more important than depth up front. In general, and also because we only have 2 reserve NHL defenseman in the organization. Meanwhile, we have 5 or 6 reserve NHL forwards in the organization. (By reserve, I mean beyond the starting lineup on any given night.)

Furthermore, while Lashoff is just filler and I really don't like Kindl, they are both more established than Nestrasil. They have years of experience at the highest level, while Nestrasil only has months and is still adjusting.

That is my point. And Ouellet and Jurco are making this team better than their alternatives, with the upside to improve further on what they are providing right now.

Agreed. But I value depth too, and the upside to waiting 3 months to make Ouellet the permanent #6 outweighs the downside, imo. Not by a ton, but I think it does. If some team came along and wanted to offer something for Kindl, then sure, pull the trigger. But I wouldn't waive him. He'd get claimed and that would be 10x worse than the Nestrasil situation.

So if you are ok waiving Nestrasil, you should have no qualms with waiving the defensive equivalents. But that doesn't seem to be the case. I think it's dumb, especially considering Ouellet is a guy Babcock really wants.

As Babcock himself admits, he wants the best players, as they stand now, but he knows Holland has to look out for the long-term, since Babcock himself certainly isn't.

 

[Frk It]

I do. Those guys have significantly more value than Nestrasil.

Depth on the blueline is more important than depth up front. In general, and also because we only have 2 reserve NHL defenseman in the organization. Meanwhile, we have 5 or 6 reserve NHL forwards in the organization. (By reserve, I mean beyond the starting lineup on any given night.)

Furthermore, while Lashoff is just filler and I really don't like Kindl, they are both more established than Nestrasil. They have years of experience at the highest level, while Nestrasil only has months and is still adjusting.




Agreed. But I value depth too, and the upside to waiting 3 months to make Ouellet the permanent #6 outweighs the downside, imo. Not by a ton, but I think it does. If some team came along and wanted to offer something for Kindl, then sure, pull the trigger. But I wouldn't waive him. He'd get claimed and that would be 10x worse than the Nestrasil situation.




As Babcock himself admits, he wants the best players, as they stand now, but he knows Holland has to look out for the long-term, since Babcock himself certainly isn't.

I agree with you that depth is good. However, going overboard with depth is not good. Holland hoards. It leaves him with zero roster flexibility far too often.

It's why Nyquist stayed in GR til 24. It's why Ouellet had to start in GR when the coach wanted him on the team. It's why Pulkkinen is playing great hockey right now and has no opportunity to play in Detroit. It's why we can't have Jurco and Ouellet on the team at the same time when we are healthy.

It's nice if you get ravaged by injuries, but when you have a normal season it inhibits you tremendously.

 

[jaster]

I agree with you that depth is good. However, going overboard with depth is not good. Holland hoards. It leaves him with zero roster flexibility far too often.

It's why Nyquist stayed in GR til 24. It's why Ouellet had to start in GR when the coach wanted him on the team. It's why Pulkkinen is playing great hockey right now and has no opportunity to play in Detroit. It's why we can't have Jurco and Ouellet on the team at the same time when we are healthy.

It's nice if you get ravaged by injuries, but when you have a normal season it inhibits you tremendously.

Agree to disagree I don't see it hurting us much at all, personally. Would I like to have seen Nyquist up sooner? Sure. But in the long run, looking at the big picture, it didn't really hurt anything.

 

[jaster]

Holland has lost his stones. Its OKAY to lose a guy like Kindl or Lashoff when you have Ouellet, Marchenko, Backman, Jensen, Sproul all ready to prove themselves and step in.

Its not like we are hurting for depth defensively. If we let go of Kindl or Lashoff to play Ouellet we still have 4 NHL level dmen in GR to step up in the case of one or multiple injuries.

I can see maybe having a debate on Jensen and Marchenko (I wouldn't want to have to depend on either in the case of injuries), but there's nothing to indicate that Sproul or Backman are NHL-ready.

 

[Frk It]

Agree to disagree I don't see it hurting us much at all, personally. Would I like to have seen Nyquist up sooner? Sure. But in the long run, looking at the big picture, it didn't really hurt anything.

Well, also consider we have a bunch of young d that all lose waiver exemption at the same time. Pulkkinen also loses his next summer. Would be nice to have an opportunity to take a decent look at these guys. Not seeing a lot of spots opening up next year either.

 

[AD1066]

Agree to disagree I don't see it hurting us much at all, personally. Would I like to have seen Nyquist up sooner? Sure. But in the long run, looking at the big picture, it didn't really hurt anything.

Could've been the difference between playing Pittsburg or Boston in the first round. Maybe the outcome wouldn't have changed, but I'd like to see us ice the best possible roster if it amounts to a handful of extra points in the standings come season's end.

 

[ricky0034]

I gotta say I really don't view Jensen and Marchenko being "unproven" as a reason to keep Lashoff around

the only thing that Lashoff has "proven" is that he sucks

Could've been the difference between playing Pittsburg or Boston in the first round. Maybe the outcome wouldn't have changed, but I'd like to see us ice the best possible roster if it amounts to a handful of extra points in the standings come season's end.

and putting them in the lineup earlier gives them more time to get used to the NHL too

maybe Nyquist would have played better in the Playoffs if he'd had an extra 20-30 games to get settled in last year

 

[jaster]

Well, also consider we have a bunch of young d that all lose waiver exemption at the same time. Pulkkinen also loses his next summer. Would be nice to have an opportunity to take a decent look at these guys. Not seeing a lot of spots opening up next year either.

Granted. I think, at most, there will be 3 spots opening up for our 5 defense prospects in the next two seasons (with Kindl, Quincey, and Lashoff all candidates to move on in that timeframe). Which is fine, because it's very unlikely for more than 3 of them to turn into NHL-caliber players anyway.

And since Ouellet is very close to permanently grabbing a spot, that leaves the last quarter of this season, next year's preseason, next year's regular season, next year's postseason, and the 16-17 preseason to work in 2 more of those kids. I think there's plenty of opportunity there.

 

[jaster]

I gotta say I really don't view Jensen and Marchenko being "unproven" as a reason to keep Lashoff around

the only thing that Lashoff has "proven" is that he sucks

The reason to keep Lashoff around is because, in addition to being cheap and NHL-capable, he's in a reserve spot; the proverbial pressbox. If you dump him, you have to put either a prospect or a fragile (in terms of confidence) $2.4M guy in the pressbox. Neither is attractive. The best guy in the organization to be in that #7 reserve spot, by a wide margin, is Brian Lashoff. Even if you believe "he sucks."