Player Discussion Would you trade Kakko/Laf right now?

[McRanger92]

There's no decision.

You buy out someone like Kreider before trading Kakko (unless someone is giving you Nathan MacKinnon or something for Kakko - in which case you still buy out Kreider to fit him in).

Yes, that is patently ridiculous, but so is any suggestion of moving on from Kakko.

We've gone back and forth on stuff like this, but if you think the bolded has any chance of happening, I've got a bridge to sell you

 

[mas0764]

Bobrov & Quinn are the 2 biggest culprits of the slow development of these forwards imo. Weve heard rumblings for years that Bobrov was making these prospects promises about ice time and opportunity that brought on unreachable expectations from the players themselves and the fans.

Quinn's development philosophy set the team back years and may have irreparably damaged Kakko/Chytil. They play with no confidence and are terrified to make a mistake.

Something about developing forwards with this team is off, but for defenseman and goalies, they've seemingly done a great job of putting them in the best positions to succeed. The issue now is that development is no longer priority 1, winning is. And if Kakko/Chytil/Laf dont start contributing more to actually winning games, they could potentially be moved as they get more expensive.

I hope you are right, but here we are in only the second year of Lafreniere, and he looks the same as Kakko and Chytil. Did one year of Quinn ruin him? If Gallant is any good, how come he can't reverse that?

I tend to be with you that I think it's something rotten in the organization. I hope it was Bobrov and Quinn.

But I'm starting to suspect Gallant is not cutting it either.

In which case, as you know from our past debates, I couldn't give one shit less about our current record. If Gallant isn't the right coach to develop Kakko and Laf and Chytil and maybe Kravtsov, then he can get the hell out.

 

[mas0764]

We've gone back and forth on stuff like this, but if you think the bolded has any chance of happening, I've got a bridge to sell you

I don't (not this year anyway, and when he is moved it will most likely be a trade); but I'm insinuating Kakko will not be moved to accommodate either.

If you don't have a Kakko and Laf as future studs in hand then the organization has nothing and it should start over.

 

[mas0764]

I think he maintains a high level of composure in all situations. He rarely shows much emotion. He doesn’t usually show a lot of frustration. He is a mature kid. But that’s kind of the problem, and I agree with you and Ed re: attitude. To me he lacks killer instinct. He plays too nice. He’s your neighbor who chats it up about the weather and you walk away saying “really nice guy, but kinda boring”. It feels like you just need to light a fire under this guy’s ass somehow and unlock a hidden “IDGAF” demeanor that he can tap into on the ice, but I’m not sure it even exists in him.

He maybe at least needs someone who will say, "I'm setting you up to be the man."

Which is why he should play with a player who is allergic to shooting in Strome.

 

[McRanger92]

I hope you are right, but here we are in only the second year of Lafreniere, and he looks the same as Kakko and Chytil. Did one year of Quinn ruin him? If Gallant is any good, how come he can't reverse that?

I tend to be with you that I think it's something rotten in the organization. I hope it was Bobrov and Quinn.

But I'm starting to suspect Gallant is cutting it either.

In which case, as you know from our past debates, I couldn't give one shit less about our current record. If Gallant isn't the right coach to develop Kakko and Laf and Chytil and maybe Kravtsov, then he can get the hell out.

Gallant is not in the business of developing prospects, that was supposed to be Quinn's job. And he did such a bad job of it that many people (including a franchise icon) lost their jobs over it.

I think there is still hope with Lafreniere, mainly due to him showing us good finishing ability and a willingness to hit and forecheck hard. He also doesn't look like he is constantly on the verge of tears on the bench like Chytil & Kakko.

 

[mas0764]

Callahan, Dubinsky, Stepan, JT Miller, and Kreider were all developed well, even though Miller improved with Vancouver. Maybe something changed organizationally but I don't buy that these guys can't develop. Also, Zucc was arguably developed here.

Yeah, that was a generation ago.

 

[Lion Hound]

No players on any roster are un-tradable, so yes.

Trading them for any expiring contract should be off the table. Hertl, Domi, Giroux, Kessel, Giordano, Chariot
Trading them for anyone over the age of 30 with 1 or 2 years left on their contract should be off the table with maybe with Pat Kane the exception.

I wouldn't include either in a deal for JT Miller. Unfortunately there's too much smore there with Miller so i think Kakko could be in a deal there.

If Chychrun was the target, the contract makes so much more sense. The need of a potential top pair or top 4 LD is also there. It also leaves another hole at RW. That seems to be the top 6 position that needs a filling. I like Chychrun, and i think that might be a good fit here. I also think the Rangers can land him w/out giving up one of the aforementioned. Chytil, 1st rounder and maybe Gauthier?

Both Kakko and Lafreniere are 20 years old. They are still figuring things out in big market team. They are getting ice time and looks with some of the best players in the game currently. I think it's just time that they need.

 

[mas0764]

Gallant is not in the business of developing prospects, that was supposed to be Quinn's job. And he did such a bad job of it that many people (including a franchise icon) lost their jobs over it.

Well that's my point. You need a coach to develop, then a coach to win.

Our developing coach failed. We still need someone to develop our kids. If Gallant is only here to say "If you aren't a finished product defensively then I can't play you," then I actually don't want him behind the bench. He needs to develop Kakko and Laf first and foremost. And I was told Gallant was good with kids, ie, look what he did with Barkov and Huberdeau.

That's one of the reasons we don't need to be winning right now. The vital pieces we need for winning haven't developed yet (or aren't even in the system, ie, two centers).

All this renting talk is so premature.

 

[mas0764]

None of the players you reference "developed" recently. That's an entirely different generation of Rangers if we're talking about their development years. Callahan and Dubinsky are retired, Stepan probably should be retired. Miller and Kreider yes, agreed, but even with Miller he became a better offensive producer after he left the Rangers than he ever was with us. And yes, we developed Zucc very well, other than John Tortorella almost destroying his NHL career.

Most of them actually developed somewhere not on the NY Rangers roster, for one, and a second thing is that none of them developed into star first liners.

Most were really second liners that sometimes masqueraded as adequate first liners.

 

[bbny]

He maybe at least needs someone who will say, "I'm setting you up to be the man."

Which is why he should play with a player who is allergic to shooting in Strome.

To be fair, if you blew as many grade A scoring chances as Strome does, you would be reluctant to shoot also

 

[McRanger92]

I don't (not this year anyway, and when he is moved it will most likely be a trade); but I'm insinuating Kakko will not be moved to accommodate either.

If you don't have a Kakko and Laf as future studs in hand then the organization has nothing and it should start over.

I certainly think the organization was banking on Kakko replacing Buch's production, rightfully so. But hes gone backwards unfortunately. I dont think the Rangers are looking to actively move him, but i think they are content to squeeze him on his next contract, because to date he hasnt earned a long term deal

 

[mas0764]

I certainly think the organization was banking on Kakko replacing Buch's production, rightfully so. But hes gone backwards unfortunately. I dont think the Rangers are looking to actively move him, but i think they are content to squeeze him on his next contract, because to date he hasnt earned a long term deal

Maybe they are, but he also has them over a barrel in a way.

Because they absolutely cannot let him get away.

Like I said, if he's out with no equal talent returning (and by that I mean 20-ish year old prospect who you project to be an All-Star forward), the team should pack it in.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Lafreniere only just recently played a full seasons worth of games so were not close to a decision point on him. I've also liked what I've seen from him, especially playing with Strome/Goodrow

With Kakko, on the other hand, a decision of some kind is going to come this summer because he needs a new contract. Its very concerning that he has stagnated despite the fact that he's been locked into top line minutes all season, its not like he hasn't been given a big opportunity.

They'll resign him, there will be no decision this summer

 

[McRanger92]

Well that's my point. You need a coach to develop, then a coach to win.

Our developing coach failed. We still need someone to develop our kids. If Gallant is only here to say "If you aren't a finished product defensively then I can't play you," then I actually don't want him behind the bench. He needs to develop Kakko and Laf first and foremost.

That's one of the reasons we don't need to be winning right now. The vital pieces we need for winning haven't developed yet (or aren't even in the system, ie, two centers).

All this renting talk is so premature.

I think you have to look at the situation from the NYR Organizations perspective. Last spring, they had star players on long term big money deals (Panarin/Kreider/Trouba) and more coming needing big contracts (Igor/Fox/Zibanejad). They made a conscience decision that that core of 3 top line forwards (including the best LW in the league), 2 top 4 defenseman (including the Norris winner) and a Vezina caliber goalie could be Cup caliber if they built around them, especially with the young players being given larger roles with the Buchnevich trade. Playoff matter a lot to the organization and the fans, and the team seemingly had enough of the embarrassing incidents on and off the ice, and as a season ticket holder, I support this.

The underperformance of the young players, for whatever reason, has complicated things. Im of the opinion that the Rangers cant waste this core of players (that we know are stars) waiting for these prospects to pan out, if they ever do (and the unfortunate reality is, its not looking great). Im not saying to move all of them by any stretch, but some are going to go soon, potentially for guys like JT Miller or Chychrun who compliment the core they have in place.

 

[bobbop]

Yes, I would consider trading Kakko. Perhaps not now but definitely during the summer.

Kakko still holds a lot of promise, but I believe he is going to be a complimentary player, not a centerpiece. His pedigree will still have appeal to a lot of people.

If you do not have what you want from a number two draft pick, better to cut your investment short and move him while there is still a robust market.