Would you take a bad contract for draft picks?

[hidek91]

Regarding Skinner, some time ago, I've made a trade proposal on the main boards, which was Seattle taking 3 unprotected firsts ('21, '22 & '23) for Skinner and the overall reaction was that it's too much. And if you take into account Skinner's buyout in 2023, it's really not bad enough to get 3 first round picks (especially given how awful Buffalo is):

I think that the fair price is two 1st round picks with maybe a slight bonus, three 1st round picks is too much and four 1st round picks is basically insane. However, that trade would also really gut Buffalo franchise so I don't see that happening.

 

[markog]

That means that rebuild will take even longer. This team stinks for 9 years now and they should take on bad contracts? They could use their cap space and take on good players from teams who are caped out (thats 90% of teams).

 

[hidek91]

That means that rebuild will take even longer. This team stinks for 9 years now and they should take on bad contracts? They could use their cap space and take on good players from teams who are caped out (thats 90% of teams).

What impact the results from previous seasons have on a strategy that the team should choose?

And regarding taking "good" players, they've tried this strategy with Subban, Johansson, Johnsson, Murray and Gusev. Didn't really work because when teams are cap strapped, they still give away sloppy seconds rather than high quality assets.

 

[markog]

Suban was a cap dump, not a quality addition and they even paid two 2nd's. I'm sure Nylander is avalaible and he would be much better then Gusev or Johnsson. And Toronto needs cap space to sign goalie, Hyman and Reilly.

 

[hidek91]

Suban was a cap dump, not a quality addition and they even paid two 2nd's. I'm sure Nylander is avalaible and he would be much better then Gusev or Johnsson. And Toronto needs cap space to sign goalie, Hyman and Reilly.

Subban had positive value back then (only one subpar season), not a cap dump, his value dropped below zero after he became a Devil. In a vacuum, for Nylander, you'd have to give up multiple quality pieces (Mercer+ or Holtz+, probably also NJD 1st 2021), which would slow down the rebuild. Also, I'm not sure Nylander is available. When they had cap problems last off-season, they got rid of two much worse wingers in Kapanen and Johnsson.

You don't dump Nylander to sign Hyman and Rielly (who isn't even free agent this summer) already earns 5M so his raise will not be that significant. They also can drop Kerfoot or much older Brodie before him, they can sign cheaper replacement for Andersen etc. And even if you offered the legitimate value in futures (so the combination of Holtz, Mercer, 1st 2021, 1st 2022), it doesn't make sense for Toronto as their time to win is now, after those prospects become factor, Tavares may be past his prime and Matthews no longer in Toronto.

I've been in those discussions many times on this board, people want to add talent but the players you get without giving up prime assets are really those in Mueller/Johansson/Subban/Gusev/Johnsson tier, Palmieri was a pleasant surprise but overall this group costed a lot of 2nd round picks, which still negatively affects the rebuild.

 

[markog]

Subban was a dump from Nashville so they ccould sign Josi. In a situation that Toronto is in I doubt more than a 1st would take. That's an offseason move, so 2022 1st.

 

[hidek91]

Subban was a dump from Nashville so they ccould sign Josi. In a situation that Toronto is in I doubt more than a 1st would take. That's an offseason move, so 2022 1st.

Wait what? They've signed Duchene literally days after Subban trade, Josi never had to do anything with it. NSH saw Subban's decline, NJ desperately needed defence improvement and that's why the trade was made, Subban still had positive value at that point. And Nashville made out like bandits in this trade because Subban declined even further.

There's also no way that you get Nylander for a 2022 1st. This doesn't make sense for them at all (for the reasons I mentioned in previous post, they're contenders right now and future pick doesn't help them at all), Toronto can dump multiple players before doing a trade like that. And btw. even if they were willing to do that, I don't think Jersey should.

 

[markog]

Well than NJ should just forever hold on of their picks and be in lottery every year like Buffalo.

 

[hidek91]

Well than NJ should just forever hold on of their picks and be in lottery every year like Buffalo.

Agree with the first that we should hold on to our picks (unless we become contender but that's not something that we have to worry about now), disagree with the second part. If we build patiently and in a smart manner, not trying to foolishly "accelerate the rebuild", we will be fine. It takes a long time after to rebuild after starting with the ruined franchise that Lamiorello left, Shero's "win now" moves certainly didn't help but at least we are on the right direction.

 

[MartyOwns]

Regarding Skinner, some time ago, I've made a trade proposal on the main boards, which was Seattle taking 3 unprotected firsts ('21, '22 & '23) for Skinner and the overall reaction was that it's too much. And if you take into account Skinner's buyout in 2023, it's really not bad enough to get 3 first round picks (especially given how awful Buffalo is):

View attachment 413224

I think that the fair price is two 1st round picks with maybe a slight bonus, three 1st round picks is too much and four 1st round picks is basically insane. However, that trade would also really gut Buffalo franchise so I don't see that happening.

2.67 cap hit until 2030 on a buyout?? holy shit

 

[glenwo2]

Agree with the first that we should hold on to our picks (unless we become contender but that's not something that we have to worry about now), disagree with the second part. If we build patiently and in a smart manner, not trying to foolishly "accelerate the rebuild", we will be fine. It takes a long time after to rebuild after starting with the ruined franchise that Lamiorello left, Shero's "win now" moves certainly didn't help but at least we are on the right direction.

It's BECAUSE life is short that we lack patience.

I mean...how long is it going to take to see a Playoff-ready team?

We are a player(sniper; someone who can score goals) or two away from just being a competitive (against all good teams) team.

Will the above take 3 years? 4 years? 5?

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Yes. This team has plenty of cap space available and needs a pipeline stocked with top 6 skill. Preferably a solid Dman that just costs too much but can play at both ends.

 

[hidek91]

It's BECAUSE life is short that we lack patience.

I mean...how long is it going to take to see a Playoff-ready team?

We are a player(sniper; someone who can score goals) or two away from just being a competitive (against all good teams) team.

Will the above take 3 years? 4 years? 5?

I can't answer this because there are too many variables. Depends on the development of every single prospect/young player, which is impossible to predict but I'd say that until BOTH Nico and Jack provide at least Nugent-Hopkins impact, it is not going to happen. If they don't get there, we need another prospect to pan out.

I'm also personally aiming for a legitimate cup contender, rather than playoff team but maybe we're just both thinking about them and just calling it differently.

 

[glenwo2]

I can't answer this because there are too many variables. Depends on the development of every single prospect/young player, which is impossible to predict but I'd say that until BOTH Nico and Jack provide at least Nugent-Hopkins impact, it is not going to happen. If they don't get there, we need another prospect to pan out.

I'm also personally aiming for a legitimate cup contender, rather than playoff team but maybe we're just both thinking about them and just calling it differently.

To challenge for the Cup, you need to first make it to the playoffs.

If we become a playoff-team, then from there we can think about more lofty goals.

 

[hidek91]

To challenge for the Cup, you need to first make it to the playoffs.

If we become a playoff-team, then from there we can think about more lofty goals.

We've made the playoffs in 2018. It doesn't matter when your core is about to decline and/or become UFA. Some teams that make the playoffs are mediocre and despite making playoffs are not real contenders (e. g. Arizona, Minnesota, Blue Jackets, Flames). There are no tangible benefits to getting regular 1st round exits aside from appeasing some impatient fans.

In other words, if you've done what some people here want and traded our future for now, including signing crazy UFA deals and trading away prospects/1st, you'd build a short-term playoff team that would still be bounced by teams like Lightning or Capitals in the first round.

 

[My3Sons]

We've made the playoffs in 2018. It doesn't matter when your core is about to decline and/or become UFA. Some teams that make the playoffs are mediocre and despite making playoffs are not real contenders (e. g. Arizona, Minnesota, Blue Jackets, Flames). There are no tangible benefits to getting regular 1st round exits aside from appeasing some impatient fans.

In other words, if you've done what some people here want and traded our future for now, including signing crazy UFA deals and trading away prospects/1st, you'd build a short-term playoff team that would still be bounced by teams like Lightning or Capitals in the first round.

For some teams, even a first round playoff might add enough revenue to break even or make a few dollars. Do that every year and that’s real money. It’s not appealing as a fan but the owners have to pay the bills.

 

[glenwo2]

We've made the playoffs in 2018. It doesn't matter when your core is about to decline and/or become UFA. Some teams that make the playoffs are mediocre and despite making playoffs are not real contenders (e. g. Arizona, Minnesota, Blue Jackets, Flames). There are no tangible benefits to getting regular 1st round exits aside from appeasing some impatient fans.

In other words, if you've done what some people here want and traded our future for now, including signing crazy UFA deals and trading away prospects/1st, you'd build a short-term playoff team that would still be bounced by teams like Lightning or Capitals in the first round.

I get your point.

But what I'm saying by becoming a Playoff-team is one that gets to the Playoffs year-after-year, not just "One Year and a Cloud Of Suck".

We need to become that type of team FIRST before we even think of Cup aspirations.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[hidek91]

I get your point.

But what I'm saying by becoming a Playoff-team is one that gets to the Playoffs year-after-year, not just "One Year and a Cloud Of Suck".

We need to become that type of team FIRST before we even think of Cup aspirations.

That's all I'm saying.

I think we are talking about the same thing then because the teams that made the playoffs around 70-80% times in the recent decade were Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington, Tampa Bay, San Jose, Chicago, St. Louis, Vegas etc. all of those are (or at least were) contenders in my book.

 

[glenwo2]

I think we are talking about the same thing then because the teams that made the playoffs around 70-80% times in the recent decade were Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington, Tampa Bay, San Jose, Chicago, St. Louis, Vegas etc. all of those are (or at least were) contenders in my book.

Bingo.

 

[Hockey Fanatik]

As a fan? Yeah, I'd love it if they would do something like that. It's the owners that don't want to spend their money to eat a contract for draft picks.

Is this confirmed?

 

[Blackjack]

Is this confirmed?

That's a general common sense observation, not specific to Devils ownership, though I don't think they've done a deal like this to date.

 

[Hockey Fanatik]

That's a general common sense observation, not specific to Devils ownership, though I don't think they've done a deal like this to date.

Savard was one I remember. In terms of active players I am not too sure

 

[Captain3rdLine]

That's a general common sense observation, not specific to Devils ownership, though I don't think they've done a deal like this to date.

They took the last year of Marc Savard’s 4 million dollar cap hit contract in the 2016 offseason from Florida along with a 2nd round pick. He only had a salary of 575,000 for that year tho.

 

[Blackjack]

Savard was one I remember. In terms of active players I am not too sure

They took the last year of Marc Savard’s 4 million dollar cap hit contract in the 2016 offseason from Florida along with a 2nd round pick. He only had a salary of under 575,000 for that year tho.

Right, I forgot about that one. I don't think there are a lot of those hugely front-loaded contracts left. Parise is one, but he's got several more years at something like a $7 million cap hit.