Would ECHL players rather keep playing pro hockey through summer?

[Bubbrubb231]

I'm wondering if a professional league existed in Southern Patagonia during the Southern Hemisphere Winter (late April - early Sept) would ECHL players be interested in playing being they are on 1yr contracts?

I reckon most go back home to some sort of temporary labor job until the season starts up in September again. Would they rather have summer jobs like that or keep getting paid playing hockey in the southern hemisphere winter?

Punta Arenas, Rio Gallegos, Rio Grande and Ushuaia all have population bases of 90,000+, maybe two clubs and facilities in each (1 club per ~50,000 people).

Region has a suitable climate for outdoor facilitiy with a cantilevered roof on northside to keep sun off the ice during those low lattitude winters. Minimal rain during the winter. 1"/mo in worst case but it comes down in traces amounts. Building enclosed arenas is overly costly and not necessary for a second-world country with the right climate to make it work.

ECHL would be a primary target labor pool. Conceivably other mid-major leagues in northern hemisphere also, where applicable. Think it just comes down to 1yr contract players looking for a paycheck playing, rather than working a real-world job if I'm not mistaken?

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[jabberoski]

You mean like the Australian Ice Hockey League?

AIHL - Australian Ice Hockey League

 

[Bubbrubb231]

You mean like the Australian Ice Hockey League?

AIHL - Australian Ice Hockey League

no would be in Argentina. the AIHL would be a much worse level of hockey. Plus Australia isnt a true winter climate like Southern Patagonia is during our northern hemisphere summer. I recall seeing highlights of AIHL and they were playing without plexi-glass around the ice, so not even close. This would be real deal hockey.

 

[JMCx4]

Since the OP expounded on this notion in August 2023 in the Hockey Talk by Country forum, I'll include a link here to add fodder to this feeding trough ... pro Hockey in Southern Patagonia

 

[CrazyEddie20]

The Argentinian economy is in a crisis. One US dollar is worth 350 Argentine Pesos.

The country has no history of hockey.

It's a 14-hour flight from JFK in New York City. Who's going to pay for travel in/out? The players don't have the money to shell out $2,000 for a round trip ticket to the tip of South America for a tryout.

But yeah, let's get some semi-outdoor rinks built in a country with a collapsed economy using money from ... somewhere... and have a four-team summer pro league!

 

[Bubbrubb231]

The Argentinian economy is in a crisis. One US dollar is worth 350 Argentine Pesos.

The country has no history of hockey.

It's a 14-hour flight from JFK in New York City. Who's going to pay for travel in/out? The players don't have the money to shell out $2,000 for a round trip ticket to the tip of South America for a tryout.

But yeah, let's get some semi-outdoor rinks built in a country with a collapsed economy using money from ... somewhere... and have a four-team summer pro league!

Making assumptions. Who said I would be extracting money out of Argentinians? It's more a function of my dollar going alot further down there. A basic 200seat indoor arena up here costs about $5m, a simple outdoor bowl (3,000 capacity standing room) with cantilever roof would be about $1-1.5mm USD. So I can build 4 at price of 1 and I can monopolize the Latin America hockey market at a cheap entrance point. It's all about creating content.

Who said tryouts would be in SA? again you making alot of assumptions. Would be a play on media rights and content moreso than ticket revenue because as you said, and I wholeheartedly agree, Argentina economy is in shambles at moment (viva Milei!). Room and board is cheap, which maybe makes up for the sub-$1500 round trip airfare. Teams would be set in advance, no tryouts locally.

Would also be 8teams+ and it's actually a winter league because it's in southern hemisphere winter

Argentina has the most sporting passion in the world per capita I'd argue. Their women's field hockey is #2 in world next to Netherlands. Hockey isn't a foreign concept to them, it's just there has never been a viable business case to build ice rinks. It's about distributing content on a continental and global scale. That's the real value.

Conceivably a glut of pro hockey labor (ECHL and euro equivalent leagues) and no active hockey content in Northern hemisphere from May-Aug (sans playoffs)

The end goal would be to see Argentina and Chile make the World Juniors before I die. I get so sick of the same old teams dominating hockey. Argentina in particular is untapped potential if one built inline roller hockey rinks throughout country to act as a pipeline. An outdoor roller rink up here is about $200k, down there is more like $50k, so I'm able to amplify my dollar by factor of 4

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Making assumptions. Who said I would be extracting money out of Argentinians? It's more a function of my dollar going alot further down there. A basic 200seat indoor arena up here costs about $5m, a simple outdoor bowl (3,000 capacity standing room) with cantilever roof would be about $1-1.5mm USD. So I can build 4 at price of 1 and I can monopolize the Latin America hockey market at a cheap entrance point. It's all about creating content.

Who said tryouts would be in SA? again you making alot of assumptions. Would be a play on media rights and content moreso than ticket revenue because as you said, and I wholeheartedly agree, Argentina economy is in shambles at moment (viva Milei!).

Argentina has the most sporting passion in the world per capita I'd argue. Their women's field hockey is #2 in world next to Netherlands. Hockey isn't a foreign concept to them, it's just there has never been a viable business case to build ice rinks. It's about distributing content on a continental and global scale. That's the real value.

Conceivably a glut of pro hockey labor (ECHL and euro equivalent leagues) and no active hockey content in Northern hemisphere from May-Aug (sans playoffs)

The end goal would be to see Argentina and Chile make the World Juniors before I die. I get so sick of the same old teams dominating hockey. Argentina in particular is untapped potential if one built inline roller hockey rinks throughout country to act as a pipeline. An outdoor roller rink up here is about $200k, down there is more like $50k, so I'm able to amplify my dollar by factor of 4

Holy crap guy. You're making hairbrained ideas with no basis in fact or logic and you're attacking people who tell you otherwise.

If it was that easy, it would have been done by now.
If hockey was that popular, there would be significantly more interest in it. Equating potential interest in it to current interest in field hockey is completely moronic.
You're getting that large of a portion of the population attending hockey in any place outside of rural, rural Canada with a +100 year history of doing it, that isn't feasible

If you want to come up with flat out irrational ideas and have people praise you for it, you're on the wrong hockey forum.

If it is so easy, go do it. If it is so cheap, go do it. We'll wait. ECHL players going down to the middle of nowhere for a summer rather than relax and not play another season and let their bodies heal after arguably the most grueling pro hockey season in North America is not something that is likely. So that alone kills your idea.

 

[Bubbrubb231]

Holy crap guy. You're making hairbrained ideas with no basis in fact or logic and you're attacking people who tell you otherwise.

If it was that easy, it would have been done by now.
If hockey was that popular, there would be significantly more interest in it. Equating potential interest in it to current interest in field hockey is completely moronic.
You're getting that large of a portion of the population attending hockey in any place outside of rural, rural Canada with a +100 year history of doing it, that isn't feasible

If you want to come up with flat out irrational ideas and have people praise you for it, you're on the wrong hockey forum.

If it is so easy, go do it. If it is so cheap, go do it. We'll wait. ECHL players going down to the middle of nowhere for a summer rather than relax and not play another season and let their bodies heal after arguably the most grueling pro hockey season in North America is not something that is likely. So that alone kills your idea.

Well if the money is right they would happy to keep playing hockey if it's a game every 3-3.5 days instead of 2.5 or so that the ECHL is.

Would they rather want to make $22/hr doing landscaping or would they like to make $3,000/mo USD (gross) and live where their financial overhead is $1000 USD/mo? They can bank $8000 over course of 4mos? trade offs..

I'd rather keep playing even if it meant a requirement for games to be 3.5 day avg break. That way everyone can be a tourist too and enjoy life a little more than they would in ECHL which is a go-go league as one of you said. There are ways around a lot of your objections. But I get it, it's radical, therefore it will be scrutinized.

 

[Bubbrubb231]

Should note I work in software so I can mobile no problem. I'd be in the region during the season making sure are running the ways they should. This wouldn't be spending $8-10mm from afar and expecting it to make money. Would be a longer term play to acquire a hold for hockey in Latin America. That region is only part of a Latin America that is truly winter. Furthermore they are a barren outposts near the Antarctica and have no sporting identity in greater Latin America. The big football clubs are all based in warmer Northern metro areas.

There's a geostrategic motive at play because I would be able to monopolize global hockey content for 4mos of the year

 

[Bubbrubb231]

The insertion point would be building outdoor roller hockey rinks in each city. About $50,000 USD each accounting for local labor and materials. Maybe two each side of city to create a Barrio effect. $100k per city. Eventually as hockey culture marinate, in 10-15yrs+ someone (hopefully me) could build out ice rink infra.

 

[JMCx4]

... If you want to come up with flat out irrational ideas and have people praise you for it, you're on the wrong hockey forum. ...

Damn you, Barclay. Now I've gotta go find a new forum, too.

 

[Bubbrubb231]

Damn you, Barclay. Now I've gotta go find a new forum, too.

You call yourselves hockey fans but you're not interested in innovative ways to grow the game to new regions that have a true winter climate because they are too poor to sustain ice rinks free an innovative business strategy?

 

[JMCx4]

Should note I work in software so I can mobile no problem. I'd be in the region during the season making sure are running the ways they should. This wouldn't be spending $8-10mm from afar and expecting it to make money. Would be a longer term play to acquire a hold for hockey in Latin America. That region is only part of a Latin America that is truly winter. Furthermore they are a barren outposts near the Antarctica and have no sporting identity in greater Latin America. The big football clubs are all based in warmer Northern metro areas.

There's a geostrategic motive at play because I would be able to monopolize global hockey content for 4mos of the year

Have you run this business plan through a structured simulation? I'd be interested in the conditions & constraints you established, and the results.

 

[Bubbrubb231]

Have you run this business plan through a structured simulation? I'd be interested in the conditions & constraints you established, and the results.

Ice rink infra would be 10-15yrs down the road. Insertion point would be building outdoor roller hockey rinks on each side of city for $50k each. Ship in a container of used kids/youth gear and give competitive hockey the aforementioned 10-15yrs to develop down there.

Building ice rinks right away is a bit irrational I agree. I meant bldg outdoor roller facilities first. The natural endpoint point would be a pro league on ice that can provide more money to A/AA players, hence my question/curiosity on the available labor pool.

Could be a junior league too if at all possible. JUNIOR A/B type players... CHL wouldn't allow it I'd think. Albeit ECHL being a top 10 world league and JR A/B would be a ways down that line, but more a development league than a true pro league the ECHL level warrants

 

[JMCx4]

So your answer is "No"? Or just "Huh?"

 

[Bubbrubb231]

So your answer is "No"? Or just "Huh?"

Having an ice rink per 50,000 population in an authentic winter climate, in a country that prides itself on sports, with no ice rinks, that counters the northern hemisphere labor calendar (SPHL/ECHL guys on 1yr contracts) , is all I need to know of its viability. Would be flares and fireworks during gameplay just like Argentinan futbol.

 

[dm8895]

no would be in Argentina. the AIHL would be a much worse level of hockey. Plus Australia isnt a true winter climate like Southern Patagonia is during our northern hemisphere summer. I recall seeing highlights of AIHL and they were playing without plexi-glass around the ice, so not even close. This would be real deal hockey.

A much worse level of hockey that actually exists … I want to start a league in my backyard that would be elite quality. We will probably be poaching players from the NHL, KHL, AHL, SHL etc , we will be the real deal . A challenger for the NHL , games will be played on weekends, I will be paying players in fairy dust. Could we be the new WHA? I think so

 

[Bubbrubb231]

A much worse level of hockey that actually exists … I want to start a league in my backyard that would be elite quality. We will probably be poaching players from the NHL, KHL, AHL, SHL etc , we will be the real deal . A challenger for the NHL , games will be played on weekends, I will be paying players in fairy dust. Could we be the new WHA? I think so

Don't think I said anything about AHL players and above. I'm talking about players at lower end of pro spectrum on 1yr contracts (ECHL at best, but for sure SPHL). AHL are on multi-yr contracts I believe, thus wouldn't be in play as a labor pool. I'd say the second tier leagues such as DEL2 and Alleskvean? would be in play too, as long as they are 1yr contracts, should be fair game. That's a large potential labor pool to fill 8 teams. Sure, some may prefer to rest all summer but others would keep going for the right price. Say a 30-40gm season over ~4.25 months which is more like 3.5 days/gm. Air, room and board all taken care of


All the biz model stuff is irrelevant though. I'm wondering if ECHL is a viable labor pool? I know it's easy to want to knock people down and call them morons, but there is a price for everything, and a talent base of good AA from across Northern leagues would be a top 10 league in world. ECHL is arguably top 10 and with such a bigger labor pool, in theory, I could select the best from such AA leagues across Northern hemisphere and have a top 7/8 league in world all for a relative cheap price of $10mm USD.

Argentina is a second-world country. It doesn't need the fully enclosed arena when climate is sufficient for open-air during the cold season. Saves on costs of course being a dry tundra climate of the Patagonia Steppe. The Andes mountains produce a rainshadow effect for settlements east so the major settlements in region are relatively dry through the winter.

 

[GindyDraws]

What if... We airlifted the Family Arena to Patagonia?

 

[battra]

Don't think I said anything about AHL players and above. I'm talking about players at lower end of pro spectrum on 1yr contracts (ECHL at best, but for sure SPHL). AHL are on multi-yr contracts I believe, thus wouldn't be in play as a labor pool. I'd say the second tier leagues such as DEL2 and Alleskvean? would be in play too, as long as they are 1yr contracts, should be fair game. That's a large potential labor pool to fill 8 teams. Sure, some may prefer to rest all summer but others would keep going for the right price. Say a 30-40gm season over ~4.25 months which is more like 3.5 days/gm. Air, room and board all taken care of


All the biz model stuff is irrelevant though. I'm wondering if ECHL is a viable labor pool? I know it's easy to want to knock people down and call them morons, but there is a price for everything, and a talent base of good AA from across Northern leagues would be a top 10 league in world. ECHL is arguably top 10 and with such a bigger labor pool, in theory, I could select the best from such AA leagues across Northern hemisphere and have a top 7/8 league in world all for a relative cheap price of $10mm USD.

Argentina is a second-world country. It doesn't need the fully enclosed arena when climate is sufficient for open-air during the cold season. Saves on costs of course being a dry tundra climate of the Patagonia Steppe. The Andes mountains produce a rainshadow effect for settlements east so the major settlements in region are relatively dry through the winter.

There is one thing I think you may have not considered.

You're asking players who play in leagues with rookie/veteran limits to give up eligibility for a league in a country that they have no connection to, don't speak the language, and will have no way to get around.

 

[GindyDraws]

A much worse level of hockey that actually exists …

The Federal Professional Hockey League

 

[Bubbrubb231]

There is one thing I think you may have not considered.

You're asking players who play in leagues with rookie/veteran limits to give up eligibility for a league in a country that they have no connection to, don't speak the language, and will have no way to get around.

I think there would be plenty of SPHL players willing to play in worst case. ECHL obv a step up.

It's an adventure. These are young guys in their 20s, live a little. When else would you ever have a reason to go to the opposite end of the world rather than euro. Cars/Trucks would be provided much like any euro league

 

[GindyDraws]

I think there would be plenty of SPHL players willing to play in worst case. ECHL obv a step up.
It's an adventure. These are young guys in their 20s, live a little. Cars/Trucks would be provided much like any euro league

By who exactly? We haven't exactly laid out who the financial backers would be in this hypothetical league, and I doubt they'd just casually give money away for a niche sport.

 

[Bubbrubb231]

By who exactly? We haven't exactly laid out who the financial backers would be in this hypothetical league, and I doubt they'd just casually give money away for a niche sport.

I'm more concerned about the potential available player pool as the thread title states.

 

[jabberoski]

I'm more concerned about the potential available player pool as the thread title states.

Then I think you need to be contacting the PHPA, league offices, etc., instead of posting on a message board. Just a thought.