Worst Rangers trade of all time

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Twitter makes me feel old.

Do you ever feel like getting so much information so quickly makes your mood change? I don't mean tweeting, (which I never did) just getting the information.

About a year ago I cut my facebook friends down to "real friends" and turned off all news stories. I'm much happier for doing that as well. I only keep facebook because it's the easiest way to see pictures of my family.

 

[Miamipuck]

I remember reading that the Rangers (Smith) wanted Nemchinov to mentor Zubov and Nemchinov thought it was stupid request. Why? Because Nemchinov was such a professional that he could not understand how a player like Zubov could not get it. I think that could also have been a generational thing.

I'll always be proud that the Rangers had the first Russians to win the Stanley Cup. They were 4 really different personalities but they were all very much Russian. All likeable.

If we ever have an underrated players thread Sergei Nemchinov is going to be near the top of the list.

I knew one of the trainers for the Rangers, he played in our pick up games during the offseason, he marveled at Nemchinov, said he was "an absolute machine." He's another guy I loved watching play, just did all the right things.

Edit: I never knew that Zubov/Nemchinov story, very interesting. Sounds like it could be true.

 

[Edge]

Do you ever feel like getting so much information so quickly makes your mood change? I don't mean tweeting, (which I never did) just getting the information.

About a year ago I cut my facebook friends down to "real friends" and turned off all news stories. I'm much happier for doing that as well. I only keep facebook because it's the easiest way to see pictures of my family.

I would certainly say it's information overload and it's usually not positive news.

I use Twitter for work purposes only.

FB is for my hobbies and family.

I don't touch any other social media other than these boards.

I feel my mood changs when I'm bombarded by things - information included. I also don't like the 24/7, 365 mindset that some people have. People need down time.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Nemchinov was a VERY underrated player. Solid defensively, chips in points.

A prime Nemchinov would be a highly valued player in today's NHL.

1991-1992

Erixon-Nemchinov-Gartner were fantastic all season. FANTASTIC. I think that was the best season Gartner had as a Ranger. Better than the year he scored 49.

Here is a question.......

1991-1992 the Rangers were after Adam Oates all season. I'm fairly certain they almost got him. Does Oates help the Rangers get past Pittsburgh? I think missing out on Oates in 1992 is on par with missing out on Shanahan in 1995.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Honestly, when you go through the list of trades made during the Glen Sather era, they really aren't bad at all. He made way more great value trades than bad ones. Big money signings are another thing though...

The worst trade of the Sather era was probably Cally and picks for MSL, but really, if MSL doesn't come over and his mom doesn't die, we probably don't go to the Finals. Was seeing our team in the finals worth giving up Cally and two picks? I'd take that deal again because I'll never forget that run.

Remember, at the time Sather was trading an underperforming, overpaid third liner in Cally for two playoff runs and a full season of the reigning Art Ross champion who, at that moment, was having another great year with Tampa. He fizzeled out with us but was instrumental in the Cup run. Even money as far as I'm concerned.

Nash trade was a steal for us, not even close to a bad trade.

Yandle trade was good. Again, our window was closing, and Yandle had a great playoffs and has generally been very good for us, AND we can still flip him for assets. Once again, not even close to a bad trade.

Here are some really bad ones that Sather made (some were already mentioned):

Boatload of picks for Ryan Clowe.

Nigel Dawes, Dmitri Kalinin, and Petr Prucha to Arizona for Derek Morris.

Alexei Kovalev for Josef Balej (Seriously, that's all Kovy was worth? At least Neil Smith got Petr Nedved back for him the first time!)

Leetch trade was terrible in hindsight, but more because we didn't do much with those draft picks and the prospects turned out to be "eh." So, good trade, bad scouting?

Kovalev and Leetch should have netted us more than we got during a supposed rebuild.

Neil Smith Era

Bar none, the worst era of trades in NYR history. The 1994 Cup glosses over what was a spectacularly bad era of management for the Rangers. Smith's horrendous trades were only to be outdone by his laughable draft choices.

Right away, my choice for worst trade in modern NYR history (wasn't alive for Middleton) is Zubov AND a young Nedved (who went on to score 99 points with the Pens and, when he came back to us for Kovy, produced some high scoring seasons for one of the league's worst offenses. He doesn't get enough credit) for Ulfie and Robitaille. Doesn't get much worse than that. Zubov was being compared to Bobby Orr in 94. Nedved was the next Jagr. Obviously those two things didn't happen, but Zubov was a star and Nedved went on to become one.

Marc Savard and a 1st for Calgary's 1st, Jan Hlavac, and their third round pick that we wound up trading back to them, who wound up being Craig Anderson. Actually doesn't look like that terrible of a trade considering who we technically got back, at least not compared to other bad trades of ours, but still...Savard went on to be elite and Hlavac was just good.

Cloutier, Sundstrom, 2000 1st rounder, and 2000 3rd rounder for the pick that became Pavel Brendl. This is another hindsight is 20/20 trade analysis, but that was a lot to give up on a risk player in what was quite possibly the weakest draft class in NHL history.

Kloucek, Rem Murry, and Marek Zidlicky for Mike Dunham. God, and we wondered why we were always desperate for that elite puck moving defenseman. The hangup over Zidlicky was the fact that Neil Smith didn't want to sign him to a ONE YEAR guaranteed contract. On a team that sucked. Seriously?

Mike Knuble for Rob Dimaio. Knuble was like the Kreider of his time. "26 and he still hasn't figured it out! He never will! Guys are already in their prime by 22! Trade him!" Except he did figure it out, and became a regular 28-30 goal scoring 6'3 power forward for the Bruins and other teams.

"We need power forwards who can score! We need puck moving defensemen!" Yup.

And to think that if we didn't win the Cup in 1994, the top three trades on this list might be the Amonte, Gartner, and Weight deals. All abysmal, as was Todd Marchant for Craig MacTavish, but the Cup...

---

Other trades that come to mind:

Norm Maciver, Brian Lawton, and Don Maloney for Carey Wilson and a 5th round pick. Actually not terrible considering how good Wilson was for us that first half year, but in retrospect he was finished not long after while Maciver went on to become a reliable offensive threat from the blueline. Led the terrible 93 Sens in points! lol

Granato and Sandstrom for Nicholls was awful, except Nicholls got us Messier.

The Ridley trade was bad.

Tinordi for Lawton, bad.

We also traded Dave Ganger for spare parts which turned out to be a disaster. Maybe our worst trade of the 80s.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Why would you need a link? He was asked how he felt about the trade.

As to point #2, I call BS. You trade a guy on his birthday, from the only team he's ever played for or planned to play for without telling him, and he's the ass for not signing with us over the summer? Sorry, that's crap. How often do "normal" rental UFA's return to the team that they were formerly with? How much less often do players return to teams immediately after being traded where they felt like they weren't treated properly (and he wasn't)?

We got a lot out of that deal, no question about it. But I don't blame Leetch one bit for flipping the Rangers the bird.

(1) Quotes need citations for me to discuss it.

(2) If they didn't want him back after they traded him as a rental on the near death of the NHL, then why did they want him to comeback when he decided to sign with the Bruins?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Do you ever feel like getting so much information so quickly makes your mood change? I don't mean tweeting, (which I never did) just getting the information.

About a year ago I cut my facebook friends down to "real friends" and turned off all news stories. I'm much happier for doing that as well. I only keep facebook because it's the easiest way to see pictures of my family.

Changing your mood and feelings are the exact purpose for being inundated with sound bytes and "top 10 articles."

I also agree that smoking is a definite no-no for a professional athlete.

 

[alkurtz]

When I first started watching hockey on Saturday nights on Channel 9, I was astonished how good Montreal was. After a couple of games of Rangers watching, I began to marvel at the passing skills of Goyette.

He was my first favorite player and it's because he made me understand the beauty and geometry of the game that I fell in love with hockey.

Know what you mean exactly about Goyette; he was one of my favorite players too. Because of him I've always had a soft spot for slick playmaking centers: Ulf Nilson, Michael Nylander, and others. I was hoping that Stepan would develop into that type of player but he hasn't.

Channel 9 on Saturday nights: yes, I remember those well: we were always getting crushed by the Habs or the Leafs: then we would come home and play them again Sunday night (Sunday night games at MSG still always feel right to this day) and lose again. 75 cents for a GO ticket at the old MSG in the side balcony.

I think the announcer was Win Elliot. I think that one year he got sick and the Rangers had to import an announcer from Canada, Norm Jarry, to fill in for the rest of the season. I felt that we were really hitting the big time by having a French Canadian announcer. He think he went on to become major of a town in Quebec. Marv Albert was just beginning to do some games on the radio: the last ten minutes of periods 1 and 2 and all of period 3.

We've come a long way since then but Phil Goyette, yeah, one of my favorite Rangers. I seem to recall that they brought him back at the very end of his career in 1972 when Ratelle had his ankle broken by that infamous Dale Rolfe shot.

 

[bobbop]

A former, aging superstar who came to the Rangers and continued to decline? Where have we seen that before?

Yeah, but when Plante came back from his retirement he played 6 or 7 more years in the league and was terrific. Go check his career...time with the Rangers was the inly time he was truly bad. 3 straight Stanley Cup Finals with St. Louis.

I think it irked management, he was a chain smoker I believe. I also heard he hung out in Brighton beach too much, partied and didn't care enough about hockey. There were a lot of not flattering reports put out in regards to Zubov. I am willing to bet most were greatly exaggerated.

Zubov got a reputation for not playing through injuries. apparently he kept asking out of important games and was told he needed to play. Howie Rose told this story when he was traded. (The beloved) Steve Larmer was a chain smoker too.

Know what you mean exactly about Goyette; he was one of my favorite players too. Because of him I've always had a soft spot for slick playmaking centers: Ulf Nilson, Michael Nylander, and others. I was hoping that Stepan would develop into that type of player but he hasn't.

Channel 9 on Saturday nights: yes, I remember those well: we were always getting crushed by the Habs or the Leafs: then we would come home and play them again Sunday night (Sunday night games at MSG still always feel right to this day) and lose again. 75 cents for a GO ticket at the old MSG in the side balcony.

I think the announcer was Win Elliot. I think that one year he got sick and the Rangers had to import an announcer from Canada, Norm Jarry, to fill in for the rest of the season. I felt that we were really hitting the big time by having a French Canadian announcer. He think he went on to become major of a town in Quebec. Marv Albert was just beginning to do some games on the radio: the last ten minutes of periods 1 and 2 and all of period 3.

We've come a long way since then but Phil Goyette, yeah, one of my favorite Rangers. I seem to recall that they brought him back at the very end of his career in 1972 when Ratelle had his ankle broken by that infamous Dale Rolfe shot.

So true about Goyette.

Norm Jary's 15 minutes of fame came when he called Bobby Hull's 51st goal. Still can hear him on You Tube.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Kloucek, Rem Murry, and Marek Zidlicky for Mike Dunham. God, and we wondered why we were always desperate for that elite puck moving defenseman. The hangup over Zidlicky was the fact that Neil Smith didn't want to sign him to a ONE YEAR guaranteed contract. On a team that sucked. Seriously?

This was a Sather deal.

 

[OverTheCap]

I need a link for the quote to fairly comment.

Leetch would have been a Ranger for life minus 2 months as a rental. He was being a ***** about it.

Here's the link to the quote: http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2011/1/27/1958610/blueshirt-banter-exclusive-q-a-with-brian-leetch

While Sather didn't give Leetch any advance warning about the trade, he made sure to accommodate Messier's desire to remain a Ranger:

''I don't think so,'' said Messier, the Rangers' 43-year-old captain, who had three assists against the Penguins. ''I don't feel at this time that going somewhere else is something I'm really looking forward to.''

The Detroit Red Wings made inquiries toward the Rangers and the Messier family to see if he would consider leaving New York. The final decision rests with Glen Sather, the Rangers' president and general manager. But the feeling around the league seems to be if Messier, who does not have a no-trade clause, does not want to leave the Rangers, he will not be asked to.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/s...not-likely-to-allow-rangers-to-trade-him.html

I can see why Leetch would be pissed about that. Messier is allowed to decide whether or not he wants to be traded, even though he doesn't have an NMC, but Leetch wasn't given the same opportunity or even informed that he was on the trading block.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Nigel Dawes, Dmitri Kalinin, and Petr Prucha to Arizona for Derek Morris.

I don't really see how this was that bad a trade.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

This was a Sather deal.

You're right, my bad.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

I don't really see how this was that bad a trade.

Kalinin going wasn't a big deal because he was expiring anyway, but Prucha and Dawes were still young, productive depth players. What did Derek Morris bring that necessitated giving up two assets like that?

Maybe it wasn't a terrible trade, but I honestly couldn't find many Sather era trades that I didn't like. That was one that stood out, and I remembered not liking at the time as well.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Kalinin going wasn't a big deal because he was expiring anyway, but Prucha and Dawes were still young, productive depth players. What did Derek Morris bring that necessitated giving up two assets like that?

Maybe it wasn't a terrible trade, but I honestly couldn't find many Sather era trades that I didn't like. That was one that stood out, and I remembered not liking at the time as well.

Prucha and Dawes were out of the league two seasons later.....

 

[Joey Bones]

Nemchinov was a VERY underrated player. Solid defensively, chips in points.

A prime Nemchinov would be a highly valued player in today's NHL.

Rangers have one in Jesper Fast right now, but very much agreed.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Here's the link to the quote: http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2011/1/27/1958610/blueshirt-banter-exclusive-q-a-with-brian-leetch

While Sather didn't give Leetch any advance warning about the trade, he made sure to accommodate Messier's desire to remain a Ranger:



http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/s...not-likely-to-allow-rangers-to-trade-him.html

I can see why Leetch would be pissed about that. Messier is allowed to decide whether or not he wants to be traded, even though he doesn't have an NMC, but Leetch wasn't given the same opportunity or even informed that he was on the trading block.

Or no contender wanted Messier that year.

 

[Kane One]

Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge has to be up there.

Also a first round pick and cash for Michel Bergeron is one of the most ridiculous trades ever.

 

[Tawnos]

I still maintain that the Zubov trade is being misrepresented. Not a single person criticizing it has mentioned the reason it happened.

Also, the Dunham trade was absolutely necessary. Zidlicky turned out to be the best player in the deal, but the Rangers pretty much didn't have a goaltender at the time the trade was made.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Middleton was the worst by far.

After that I'd rather we kept Amonte, Weight, Gartner, and Zubov.

 

[Tawnos]

Middleton was the worst by far.

After that I'd rather we kept Amonte, Weight, Gartner, and Zubov.

May as well throw Marchant into that group.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Rangers have one in Jesper Fast right now, but very much agreed.

Woah. Slow down a little.

 

[Draft Guru]

Nigel Dawes, Dmitri Kalinin, and Petr Prucha to Arizona for Derek Morris.

That was three bags of pucks for a top 4 defenseman at the deadline. None of the three were in the lineup at the time. Basically shedding two contracts and adding a solid defenseman for a playoff run. This trade was fine at the time and still to this day.

Alexei Kovalev for Josef Balej (Seriously, that's all Kovy was worth? At least Neil Smith got Petr Nedved back for him the first time!)

It was Balej + a 2nd rounder in '04. Want to say that was the Bruce Graham pick, but not positive. The Rangers had so many 2nd rounders in '04 it's hard to remember which ones came from where.

Kovalev was a rental. Balej at the time was a solid prospect. This was fine value at the time. Balej just never panned out.

That '04 fire sale came a few years too late, but it set us up for our success post lockout. Lindros would have been dealt that deadline as well if he wasn't injured. Think Detroit was after him.

 

[silverfish]

Tortorella for AV

 

[Jxmarts]

A lot of people are ignoring the context of the Zubov trade. The Rangers had just gotten absolutely destroyed by a big, physical Flyers team in the playoffs. Samuelsson brought a much needed element to the team. I understand not liking the trade. I didn't really either. But there was definitely a certain logic to it.

The Kurri trade is pretty easily the worst trade the Rangers made in my time as a fan. What's funny is that it came right before I had any sophisticated understanding of the mechanisms behind trades. I was excited to get Kurri because I didn't fully realize that Kurri wasn't the same player I read about in books about the Oilers. I remember breaking the news of the deal to my dad and him being unhappy with it. Terrible trade, but I learned a lot from it.

I don't really consider any of the 2004 firesale trades to be part of this conversation. The return on those was less important than the act of changing the direction of the organization.

Zubov+Nedved / Samuelsson+Robitaille - Twenty years ago, grit & toughness were vital to a team's success. Trading for a player like Samuelsson was not a bad idea in theory in that era. But Samuelsson, who was always more dirty than tough, had lost a step by then. Neil Smith broke up the dominant offensive Leetch/Zubov duo on the backline for a player who needed to resort to taking penalty after penalty to make his defensive stops. Robitaille too had lost a step by then also, and was never again the dominant scorer he once had been.

Kurri+McSorley+Churla / Ferraro+Norstrom+Laperrierre+LaFayette - It's true that Norstrom & Laperriere went on to have long careers while Kurri was essentially washed up, but a neglected element of that trade was the loss of Ray Ferraro. Ferraro was a very good second line center, and the trade left the Rangers without a cohesive second line. They resorted to having to play Kurri as the center on their second line, which was a disaster. For a trade whose goal was strictly short term success, this made no sense at all.