World Cup of Hockey - BoH discussion

[sandysan]

Because it's a long shot that they'll actually be backing down from this, I think the only remaining thing left is to ensure that players who don't feel enthusiastic about playing for Team Leftovers can actually refuse.

Let those play who are interested in playing, and let those skip the event who feel iffy about - without getting crap from the company, or having to listen some clueless tools call 'em quitters.


Of course, even if that is the case, it'll likely resolve nothing. There will always be those who suspect that the players who do suit up are simply toeing on the company line, and those who deny that equally vehemently.

backing down from what ? they have said that team leftover europe is a one off and wont be there in 2020, so they ARE backing down by design.

what do you think the PA is going to do, threaten the talent from leftover europe that they will withold money from them if they dont stuff the coffers ? There are lots of players who have declined an invitation from their countries ( for whatever reason). Would most people want to participate ? My guess is yes. Will there be reprecusssions for players who decide that this is not their cup of tea ? I'm not sure that's even possible.

If they have qualifiers next time, you can get the players from team leftover to have a battle royale and the team that wins can be served up as a sacrificial lamb.

how is this better again ? Replace a team that has a good to average chance of advancing with a team of one nationality that likely doesnt ( irrespective of how well the program develops in the next 5 years).

 

[FiLe]

backing down from what ? they have said that team leftover europe is a one off and wont be there in 2020, so they ARE backing down by design.

It'd be even better if they just backed down from letting this bad joke go through even once.

what do you think the PA is going to do, threaten the talent from leftover europe that they will withold money from them if they dont stuff the coffers ? There are lots of players who have declined an invitation from their countries ( for whatever reason). Would most people want to participate ? My guess is yes. Will there be reprecusssions for players who decide that this is not their cup of tea ? I'm not sure that's even possible.

If what you say is true, good. I've no idea if they have any means to pressure players into this, but wouldn't put it beneath them. However, if they don't... case closed.

If they have qualifiers next time, you can get the players from team leftover to have a battle royale and the team that wins can be served up as a sacrificial lamb.

how is this better again ? Replace a team that has a good to average chance of advancing with a team of one nationality that likely doesnt ( irrespective of how well the program develops in the next 5 years).

It's better because there will be far more emotion involved. People in those countries with players involved actually prefer watching their NTs, no matter how bad, over Team Leftovers.

 

[cutchemist42]

20 min start to the clip, PTS interviews Donald Fehr. Disagree with a few elements Don talks about, considering he was part of creating the WBC its interesting to hear some of the things he says about this event.

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/pt_20150210_185919--Prime-Time-Sports---February-10---6pm.mp3

 

[ForumNamePending]

20 min start to the clip, PTS interviews Donald Fehr. Disagree with a few elements Don talks about, considering he was part of creating the WBC its interesting to hear some of the things he says about this event.

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/pt_20150210_185919--Prime-Time-Sports---February-10---6pm.mp3

It's nice that he was open about the fact the biggest driver behind the format is getting as many NHL players involved as possible because I don't think most of the other reasons I have heard (including some offered by Fehr in the same interview) hold up well to a whole lot of scrutiny.

Like I said in another thread (or possibly this one), maybe I'm living in a bubble and the response to the format has been widely positive but based on anything I've been able to find the reaction has been pretty negative so anytime I see guys like Bettman, Daly and Fehr talk about the WCup they seem really out of touch.

Disclaimer: Yes, I understand why the NHL and even the PA have gone in the direction they have.

 

[Tawnos]

It's nice that he was open about the fact the biggest driver behind the format is getting as many NHL players involved as possible because I don't think most of the other reasons I have heard (including some offered by Fehr in the same interview) hold up well to a whole lot of scrutiny.

Like I said in another thread (or possibly this one), maybe I'm living in a bubble and the response to the format has been widely positive but based on anything I've been able to find the reaction has been pretty negative so anytime I see guys like Bettman, Daly and Fehr talk about the WCup they seem really out of touch.

Disclaimer: Yes, I understand why the NHL and even the PA have gone in the direction they have.

The immediate reaction and response to the format doesn't matter at ALL, though. All that matters is what the turnout is like when the tournament actually happens. And until that day comes, it behooves the league and union leadership to talk up the tournament as much as possible, whether or not what they're saying is 100% in line with reality or not.

 

[cutchemist42]

It's nice that he was open about the fact the biggest driver behind the format is getting as many NHL players involved as possible because I don't think most of the other reasons I have heard (including some offered by Fehr in the same interview) hold up well to a whole lot of scrutiny.

Like I said in another thread (or possibly this one), maybe I'm living in a bubble and the response to the format has been widely positive but based on anything I've been able to find the reaction has been pretty negative so anytime I see guys like Bettman, Daly and Fehr talk about the WCup they seem really out of touch.

Disclaimer: Yes, I understand why the NHL and even the PA have gone in the direction they have.

Knowing Donald helped drive the WBC and now this World Cup, its just interesting to hear him say things about the World Cup and contrast it with a different entity he helped work on. He emphasized during the interview that they wanted NHL players for all NHL teams to be competitive. (I personally would say a Swiss/Slovak team made of players who played together on numerous NTs would be better than at least thrown together u23s, but that might just be me) Contrast that with the WBC where teams like South Africa/Australia/China were invited automatically for the first two tournaments.

Other than that, I would have questioned harder the need for these two teams when Gary already essentially admitted they are a one-off. Why open up your tournament to jokes for teams that wont even be around. Donald said he believes these teams can be good underdog stories, but I think the underdog story is lost when the teams are just creations.

Still liked the interview though, since its the first real long interview I've heard from anyone involved since the announcement.

 

[Epsilon]

If they were hell-bent on having 8 teams in the tournament to the point of needing the gimmick teams, and the goal really was about having as many NHL players participate as possible, they should have just divided up Canada into Western Canada, Ontario, and Quebec+Maritimes.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-nhl-trade-deadline-2015-rumours/

Friedman reporting Hockey Canada and USA Hockey talking about parameters for U23 team -- will there be quotas (per country) or will it be best of the best?

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sportsnet-acquires-rights-world-cup-hockey/

Sportsnet officially announces they got the Canadian TV rights

 

[cutchemist42]

Bob McCown had both Bettman and Donald Fehr on today talking about the tournament. Whats interesting is Don alluded to the NHLPA deciding how the revenues will be split, and that ts unlikely players not in it will receive share even close to players participating. Just mentioning this since some had wondered how much each PA member stands to benefit from this.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/04/nhl-plans-super-bowl-type-events-for-2016-world-cup

NHL planning "Super Bowl" type of events in conjunction with World Cup.

 

[cutchemist42]

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/pt_20150304_180613--Prime-Time-Sports---March-4---5pm.mp3

Bettman Interview. ( he's on for almost the whole 45 mins)

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/pt_20150304_185939--Prime-Time-Sports---March-4---6pm.mp3

Donald Fehr interview

 

[patnyrnyg]

If they were hell-bent on having 8 teams in the tournament to the point of needing the gimmick teams, and the goal really was about having as many NHL players participate as possible, they should have just divided up Canada into Western Canada, Ontario, and Quebec+Maritimes.

Agreed. WHL, OHL, QMJHL, USA, Russia, Sweden, Czech, Finland would be better.

 

[cutchemist42]

If they were hell-bent on having 8 teams in the tournament to the point of needing the gimmick teams, and the goal really was about having as many NHL players participate as possible, they should have just divided up Canada into Western Canada, Ontario, and Quebec+Maritimes.

See if you do that, that actually creates teams where each team has a rooting interest. Right now, there's no real good reason to cheer for either Europe or Young Guns. Bettman says countless times in the interview they will create an underdog story, but people like underdog stories when they represent actual entities.

Creating an inferior team on paper will not create an underdog story people will cheer for, and the hockey played by the u23 will probably be inferior to the competition a mature Slovak/Swiss team would have provided. You just cant create an underdog on purpose.

Bettman and Fehr have stated countless times they want the first one to go off right, and the sole purpose of the two madeup teams is competition. I think there were better ways of doing it.

 

[KuralySnipes]

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/04/nhl-plans-super-bowl-type-events-for-2016-world-cup

NHL planning "Super Bowl" type of events in conjunction with World Cup.

Exciting, glad the league is thinking big.

 

[Jussi]

As expected, the KHL will not be having a break during the World Cup. Players are allowed to go though as with some Euro Hockey Tou events, I would not be surprised if some teams tell their players not to go.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I'm not a huge fan of the soccer league structure, but you can't deny, they do International competition right. (Well maybe not now - Quatar in Winter?)

Tons of leagues co-operating to put forth everything from friendlies to the World Cup. would be pretty awesome to see that sort of structure in Hockey.

Right now my biggest problem with This "thing" that the NHL/PA are putting together is that they are calling it a "World Cup". It just isn't. Maybe revive the "Canada Cup" moniker for it. This is just a cool exhibition that the NHL/PA wants to put on and make a lot of money, and try to gain some new USA eyeballs.

 

[Faltorvo]

I'm not a huge fan of the soccer league structure, but you can't deny, they do International competition right. (Well maybe not now - Quatar in Winter?)

Tons of leagues co-operating to put forth everything from friendlies to the World Cup. would be pretty awesome to see that sort of structure in Hockey.

Right now my biggest problem with This "thing" that the NHL/PA are putting together is that they are calling it a "World Cup". It just isn't. Maybe revive the "Canada Cup" moniker for it. This is just a cool exhibition that the NHL/PA wants to put on and make a lot of money, and try to gain some new USA eyeballs.

calling it the Canada won't play/market well in the states.

so i hear the KHL won't be adding players to this event, well i guess those that thought in advance, saw that coming from a mile away

 

[Jussi]

calling it the Canada won't play/market well in the states.

so i hear the KHL won't be adding players to this event, well i guess those that thought in advance, saw that coming from a mile away

They won't have a break in the league but players will be released by the clubs.

 

[patnyrnyg]

calling it the Canada won't play/market well in the states.

so i hear the KHL won't be adding players to this event, well i guess those that thought in advance, saw that coming from a mile away

Was mentioned on HNIC saturday. I don't blame the KHL. If I were a KHL owner, I would want a piece of the pie, too. Not saying it needs to be an equal partnership with the NHL and whoever else, but something. NHL SHOULD give something back to all the leagues/federations. Again, not saying it should be equal, but a small cut. Secondly, it should not be in proportion to the number of players from each league, i.e. if 5% are from the KHL they get 5%. That will just cause federations to pressure the GMs/coaches/whoever makes the decision to keep more players from the domestic league rather than the best players.

 

[cutchemist42]

Did a quick count of the amount of KHL players that were on the Olympic rosters of the invited Euro teams. I guess my thought is that team politics may get in the way of how every player being freely released. Will the Finnish/Czech KHL players have as easy of a time being released?

Russia-9
Finland (counting 1 player listed as being on Jokerit at the time)-9
Czech Republic-5