Wolf Pack staying in Hartford!

[CHRDANHUTCH]

False.

false, weren't the Islanders there and Worcester started that existence as an independent, it wasn't until November of 1994 that St. Louis officially became the parent club, 210..... unless the history of the Ice Cats franchise is erroneous since the side deal to move it to Springfield to start with and the then summary contractual response to create the Springfield Falcons as the successor franchise....

according to the recorded history of the franchise, there was no affiliation until near the end of 1994, when the transfer of the Indians to Worcester occurred, it also states that Ottawa was involved with the franchise in years 3, 4, and 5 encompassing 2 calendar years from 1996-98, Worcester was created as reported as a collective set of free agents between Roy Boe and Jim Roberts

here's the recorded history:

Worcester IceCats - Wikipedia

 

[axecrew]

You are entitled to think whatever you wish, but there is a reason why nearly every franchise sale and relocation is by unanimous vote.

And that reason is no team wants to be the one to block something for fear of retribution should they ever need something.

 

[210]

false, weren't the Islanders there and Worcester started that existence as an independent, it wasn't until November of 1994 that St. Louis officially became the parent club, 210..... unless the history of the Ice Cats franchise is erroneous since the side deal to move it to Springfield to start with and the then summary contractual response to create the Springfield Falcons as the successor franchise....

according to the recorded history of the franchise, there was no affiliation until near the end of 1994, when the transfer of the Indians to Worcester occurred, it also states that Ottawa was involved with the franchise in years 3, 4, and 5 encompassing 2 calendar years from 1996-98, Worcester was created as reported as a collective set of free agents between Roy Boe and Jim Roberts

here's the recorded history:

Worcester IceCats - Wikipedia

Do you not pay attention to what you post, and to what people's replies to your posts are? Evidence clearly shows you do not.

You posted "St. Louis had to be talked into that affiliation", and I bolded that in your post when I replied. Your assertion that "St. Louis had to be talked into that affiliation" is 100% false. The plan all along was for St Louis to affiliate with the IceCats once the Blues affiliation with the IHL's Rivermen was over. That's why Jimmy Roberts was the head coach/GM of the IceCats to begin with.

And that reason is no team wants to be the one to block something for fear of retribution should they ever need something.

Which falls directly in line with the "but there are ways around that" that I posted.

 

[Captain Crash]

Just to be sure, there is some credibility to Js96er's original point. When the Canucks bought their AHL club with no intent of leaving them in Peoria, there was talk in legitimate hockey circles that they made an attempt to place them in Seattle's Key Arena. By the time the Canucks suddenly announced their deal with Utica, the likes of Elliotte Friedman commented that the NHL evidently blocked the move because Seattle was the back up plan in case the Coyotes lease situation fell apart.

I can't find Friedman's original report (and links to Glenn Healy on the topic are dead) but here is a post from a Canucks blog on the situation from that time: Canucks Had Their Eyes on Seattle for Their AHL Team (Sorry, I know blogs are a crapshoot)

So assuming this all was accurately reported at the time, it's still not to say that the NHL has a formal veto power when it comes to AHL relocations, but evidently they do have means of swaying decisions in certain situations.

 

[210]

In order for that theory to be true that means the Canucks didn't do any homework before they bought the team on where they were putting their AHL franchise and somehow had no idea that the arena they wanted to place their team in was unavailable. That seems a little far fetched to me.

 

[Captain Crash]

In order for that theory to be true that means the Canucks didn't do any homework before they bought the team on where they were putting their AHL franchise and somehow had no idea that the arena they wanted to place their team in was unavailable. That seems a little far fetched to me.

It makes more sense in the context of the Abbotsford situation. Leading up to the Canucks' purchase, it was widely reported that their intent was to relocate it to the BC area. Calgary was still basically squatting in Abbotsford at the time, but the local media reported well-before the purchase became official (in April 2013) that the plan was for the Flames affiliate to relocate to Utica and the Vancouver affiliate to take their place in BC. Then those negotiations fell apart, and the Canucks' new toy was without a toy box. Vancouver going into Utica was Plan C at best.

I'm also willing to take Friedman's word for it, given his impeccable track record with this stuff.

 

[210]

I'll ask you the same question I was asking back then: why would Calgary leave Abbotsford and that sweetheart lease for Utica?

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I'll ask you the same question I was asking back then: why would Calgary leave Abbotsford and that sweetheart lease for Utica?

did San Jose ever look into buying the ECHL Stockton thunder before the flames bought the team. what would the plan have been for the ahl pacific division if the city of Abbotsford Never terminated the heat's contract

 

[210]

did San Jose ever look into buying the ECHL Stockton thunder before the flames bought the team. what would the plan have been for the ahl pacific division if the city of Abbotsford Never terminated the heat's contract

I have no idea what would have happened had the Heat stayed in Abbotsford, but I do know the Sharks looked into buying an ECHL franchise as early as 2007. I remember talking to Mike Lehr about it prior to the All-Star game here and he said it just didn't make financial sense for them to own an ECHL team, so I think it's unlikely they would have looked at buying Stockton even for just doing the franchise swaps other NHL teams did with AHL/ECHL locations.

 

[go comets]

I'll ask you the same question I was asking back then: why would Calgary leave Abbotsford and that sweetheart lease for Utica?

That is what happened.... The flames were in fact in negotiations with the city of Abbotsford to buy out the flames and bring the Canucks in.
Flames asked too much and the negotiations died.

The Canucks in the meantime had bought Peoria and looked at Seattle, Vancouver, Going back to Peoria and finally settled in Utica.

Abbotsford ended up in Glens Falls a year later.

 

[Captain Crash]

In the end, Calgary left when they were paid to do so by the city. At the time they were bribed out, city officials in Abbotsford confirmed that the year prior they were working with Vancouver on taking over the lease, but it fell apart. So why would Calgary leave? Given the mounting financial losses and the city openly and publicly courting a replacement team, they probably knew the city was going to force it one way or the other, which is what happened just a season later. It's not hard to imagine that they were in talks with the city and Vancouver about facilitating franchise movement, but held out for more cash until one of the sides balked.

Here are some CBC articles confirming some of these details: Deal to bring Canucks' farm team to Abbotsford fails | CBC News
Abbotsford Heat leave city with $12M in losses | CBC News

 

[210]

That is what happened.... The flames were in fact in negotiations with the city of Abbotsford to buy out the flames and bring the Canucks in.
Flames asked too much and the negotiations died.

The Canucks in the meantime had bought Peoria and looked at Seattle, Vancouver, Going back to Peoria and finally settled in Utica.

Abbotsford ended up in Glens Falls a year later.

Of course they did, because based on the deal they had the Flames had no reason to leave without getting a pot of gold in return.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

That is what happened.... The flames were in fact in negotiations with the city of Abbotsford to buy out the flames and bring the Canucks in.
Flames asked too much and the negotiations died.

The Canucks in the meantime had bought Peoria and looked at Seattle, Vancouver, Going back to Peoria and finally settled in Utica.

Abbotsford ended up in Glens Falls a year later.

Abbotsford never existed once the Flames left for Stockton, GC, Abbotsford is, in chronological order: Saint John, then Omaha, then QC, before Abbotsford even entered the equation, what left for Adirondack is Stockton's franchise, much the way Bakersfield's Condors got flipped to Norfolk via Anaheim when they bought out Ken Young's stake in Norfolk to put it in San Diego, if you remember, Anaheim nor Arizona went the owner/operator route when they acquired the affiliates, and it was the former Ducks and Flames head of hockey ops that initially set that idea in 2006

 

[go comets]

Abbotsford never existed once the Flames left for Stockton, GC, Abbotsford is, in chronological order: Saint John, then Omaha, then QC, before Abbotsford even entered the equation, what left for Adirondack is Stockton's franchise, much the way Bakersfield's Condors got flipped to Norfolk via Anaheim when they bought out Ken Young's stake in Norfolk to put it in San Diego, if you remember, Anaheim nor Arizona went the owner/operator route when they acquired the affiliates, and it was the former Ducks and Flames head of hockey ops that initially set that idea in 2006

You are Incorrect, you aretalking one year later. The flames AHL team went from Abbotsford to Glens falls for one season then moved to Stockton a season later. The Comets home opener that season was against the Adirondack Flames and I also went to Glens falls twice that season to watch the Comets. My cousins live in Glens Falls, and the Comets won almost every game against the Flames that season.

One year later was the AHL team to Stockton and a ECHL team coming back.

 

[Captain Crash]

You are Incorrect, you aretalking one year later. The flames AHL team went from Abbotsford to Glens falls for one season then moved to Stockton a season later. The Comets home opener that season was against the Adirondack Flames and I also went to Glens falls twice that season to watch the Comets. My cousins live in Glens Falls, and the Comets won almost every game against the Flames that season.

One year later was the AHL team to Stockton and a ECHL team coming back.

This is correct. The Heat did not jump immediately to Stockton.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You are Incorrect, you aretalking one year later. The flames AHL team went from Abbotsford to Glens falls for one season then moved to Stockton a season later. The Comets home opener that season was against the Adirondack Flames and I also went to Glens falls twice that season to watch the Comets. My cousins live in Glens Falls, and the Comets won almost every game against the Flames that season.

One year later was the AHL team to Stockton and a ECHL team coming back.

there's no team in Abbotsford, GC, even today, the arena is still there, no league has touched or even approached them since, not even the Canucks

 

[axecrew]

there's no team in Abbotsford, GC, even today, the arena is still there, no league has touched or even approached them since, not even the Canucks

What does this have to do with the quoted post?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

What does this have to do with the quoted post?

the point has always been will Vancouver leave Utica.....

 

[go comets]

the point has always been will Vancouver leave Utica.....

My take is the Canucks won't head west until Seattle starts their AHL team in 2 more seasons, which seems to be the NHLs plan. At least at that point these two teams can be put in close proximity to each other.

That being said, I have no clue how we got from the Flames and Abbotsford to the Canucks leaving Utica.......

 

[Captain Crash]

there's no team in Abbotsford, GC, even today, the arena is still there, no league has touched or even approached them since, not even the Canucks

Why don't you just admit that you forgot that the Calgary's AHL team spent a year in Adirondack between being in Abbotsford and Stockton and move on?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

did San Jose ever look into buying the ECHL Stockton thunder before the flames bought the team. what would the plan have been for the ahl pacific division if the city of Abbotsford Never terminated the heat's contract

Abbotsford had and took the five year out clause, that's why Calgary blocked another franchise from ever setting there, and that was before Vancouver bought the franchise that is now Utica, Js. had nothing to do with the Flames or the Sharks looking at the Thunder, instead of Stockton Calgary would still be in BC TO answer the question

 

[axecrew]

Abbotsford had and took the five year out clause, that's why Calgary blocked another franchise from ever setting there, and that was before Vancouver bought the franchise that is now Utica, Js. had nothing to do with the Flames or the Sharks looking at the Thunder, instead of Stockton Calgary would still be in BC TO answer the question

Huh?

 

[UticaHockey]

I thought this thread was about the Rangers and Hartford.....

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I thought this thread was about the Rangers and Hartford.....

It is. Conversation got derailed about 1 1/2 pages into this thread.

 

[JMCx4]

... Conversation got derailed about 1 1/2 pages into this thread.

I reckon the train in question jumped the tracks far longer ago than that.