Line Combos: With the addition of Orlov, how do you see the defense pairings?
- Thread starter Mr. Make-Believe
- Start date
smithformeragent
Moderator
Beers just said he thinks they’ll try everything and see what works best.
Odds are, someone goes down at some point, so it’s good to get guys familiar playing with each other.
Odds are, someone goes down at some point, so it’s good to get guys familiar playing with each other.
Orlov -- McAvoy
Lindholm -- Carlo
FLEX -- Clifton
depth: Grz, Forbort, Zboril, Reilly, Stralman
I'd like to see us add one more RD that's a better option than Stralman and move out Reilly/Zboril to get that done.
I also like the idea of having one of McAvoy, Lindholm, and Orlov out on the ice for the entire game. In that scenerio, Grz is in the lineup next to McAvoy.
Grz -- McAvoy
Lindholm -- Carlo
Orlov -- Clifton
Lindholm -- Carlo
FLEX -- Clifton
depth: Grz, Forbort, Zboril, Reilly, Stralman
I'd like to see us add one more RD that's a better option than Stralman and move out Reilly/Zboril to get that done.
I also like the idea of having one of McAvoy, Lindholm, and Orlov out on the ice for the entire game. In that scenerio, Grz is in the lineup next to McAvoy.
Grz -- McAvoy
Lindholm -- Carlo
Orlov -- Clifton
Orlov/Gryz-Mac
Lindholm-Clifton
Orlov/Gryz-Carlo
In my eyes it gives you an 'anchor' on every pairing making matchups harder and still allows Monty to make switches mid game as he sees fit situationally.
Lindholm-Clifton
Orlov/Gryz-Carlo
In my eyes it gives you an 'anchor' on every pairing making matchups harder and still allows Monty to make switches mid game as he sees fit situationally.
I would go Orlov Carlo. Orlov moving to a new system probably has an easier time with steady Carlo than Clifton.
MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
- Feb 14, 2018
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Rest of the regular season all bets are off. I won’t read a single thing into the first lineup or lineups even if Forbort is the one sat. I would hope others would see that as well. The defense hasn’t had a game off since Forbort got back from injury. Going to rotate 7.
Assuming full health, I want Monty to have full flexibility in his pairings so Forbort is 7D. Grizz taking Forbort’s 5v5 minutes is more impactful than a “downgrade” from Forbort to Orlov on the PK is a negative. If a pair or defenseman is getting exploited then roll Forbort in and try a different look.
Assuming full health, I want Monty to have full flexibility in his pairings so Forbort is 7D. Grizz taking Forbort’s 5v5 minutes is more impactful than a “downgrade” from Forbort to Orlov on the PK is a negative. If a pair or defenseman is getting exploited then roll Forbort in and try a different look.
We generally don't see eye to eye on Forbort but even i can see he's the one to sit. I could see him being put in over someone in the playoffs if:
A) The PK struggles
Or
B) Gryz struggles with an opposing team's forecheck/physicality
I can even see a very far outside chance with an injury to an F like Nosek if they try and dress all 7 D and use him exclusively on PK.
Mr. Make-Believe
The happy genius of my household
Yeah but like 70% of Forbort’s starts are in the defensive zone.
Pardon my lack of understanding… I’m not even quite sure what spurned this conversation in the first place.
Said this in trade thread but better fit here. Where it ends up being Gryz or Forbort as that 3 LHD they are going to see some limited sheltered minutes in big games.
Both players have limitations, and can be exploited. It will be critical for Monty to manage and try to avoid those limitations
I expect you see Orlov and Lindholm get into the 22-25 min range each, and Gryz/Forbort, down in the 12-15
Both players have limitations, and can be exploited. It will be critical for Monty to manage and try to avoid those limitations
I expect you see Orlov and Lindholm get into the 22-25 min range each, and Gryz/Forbort, down in the 12-15
Mr. Make-Believe
The happy genius of my household
I’ll say this too:
@PlayMakers posted some Expected Goals For/Against stats for Grzelcyk in the Trade thread. They certainly appear favourable.
But you can’t post those and dismiss others that show he’s not as effective in playoffs as he is in the regular season. If one set of data is good, you have to allow for others as well.
Truth is, Grzelcyk isn’t the playoff disaster that some would like to claim. And he isn’t the dynamo in the playoffs that others would argue. He’s somewhere in the middle.
And to me (as big of a fan as I am of Grzelcyk and I am one of his biggest) there’s a case to be made for him being part of a rotation at least with Forbort on the left side.
And this may be a hot take, but I’m arguing for Clifton to play every game, just like the top four (hopefully paired with Lindholm). I just love how he ELEVATES his game come post-season and think his tenacity will be key to the Bruins success.
@PlayMakers posted some Expected Goals For/Against stats for Grzelcyk in the Trade thread. They certainly appear favourable.
But you can’t post those and dismiss others that show he’s not as effective in playoffs as he is in the regular season. If one set of data is good, you have to allow for others as well.
Truth is, Grzelcyk isn’t the playoff disaster that some would like to claim. And he isn’t the dynamo in the playoffs that others would argue. He’s somewhere in the middle.
And to me (as big of a fan as I am of Grzelcyk and I am one of his biggest) there’s a case to be made for him being part of a rotation at least with Forbort on the left side.
And this may be a hot take, but I’m arguing for Clifton to play every game, just like the top four (hopefully paired with Lindholm). I just love how he ELEVATES his game come post-season and think his tenacity will be key to the Bruins success.
Gryz-Mcavoy
Lindholm-Clifton
Orlov-Carlo
There is no weakness there at 5v5. PK may take a hit without Forbort, but Lindholm and Orlov should be able to hold down fort on the left side of the PK
Lindholm-Clifton
Orlov-Carlo
There is no weakness there at 5v5. PK may take a hit without Forbort, but Lindholm and Orlov should be able to hold down fort on the left side of the PK
BruinsFanSince94
The Perfect Fan ™
Orlov — McAvoy
Lindholm — Carlo
Grzelcyk — Clifton
Forbort
Bolder are the pair anchors.
Lindholm — Carlo
Grzelcyk — Clifton
Forbort
Bolder are the pair anchors.
I want my top pairing to be the pairing I am going to have on the ice for 10 minutes in the 3rd period of a tight hockey game. So it has to be McAvoy with either Lindholm, or Orlov.
And really I want the second pair to be out there for 7-8 min. So it should be Carlo, with Lindholm/Orlov
And really I want the second pair to be out there for 7-8 min. So it should be Carlo, with Lindholm/Orlov
Lindholm/McAvoy
Orlov/Carlo
Gryz/Forbort or Clifton
Orlov/Carlo
Gryz/Forbort or Clifton
Mr. Make-Believe
The happy genius of my household
I really do not like this oft-proposed Grzelcyk - Clifton pair.
I wouldn’t hesitate to put him with either Carlo or McAvoy. Just not a fan of that third pair.
- Jan 29, 2003
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Agreed.
I think I‘d like to see this for a start….
Orlov - McAvoy
Lindholm - Carlo
Forbort - Clifton
if it’s Grzelcyk then put him with McAvoy and Orlov with Clifton
Smitty93
Registered User
- Dec 6, 2012
- 8,216
- 9,380
I can't help but think about the way Tampa organized their defense in their playoff runs. Hedman, McDonagh, and Sergachev would nominally be on different pairs, but still be the clear top 3 in TOI, both overall and even strength. I would suggest trying something similar here. The goal should be to have at least one of McAvoy, Lindholm, and Orlov on the ice at all times.
Start with this and then figure out the best pairs besides that.
xxx-McAvoy
Lindholm-xxx
Orlov-xxx
Personally, I'd try this first
Grzelcyk-McAvoy
Lindholm-Carlo
Orlov-Clifton
Grzelcyk, Clifton, and Forbort would be match-up based. There may be certain teams where Grzelcyk's size is more of an issue. Clifton's recklessness can be problematic. I put Forbort last because his value is tied almost entirely to the PK, and the playoffs are more 5-on-5, plus his style fits the least with Montgomery's preference to activate his defensemen.
Start with this and then figure out the best pairs besides that.
xxx-McAvoy
Lindholm-xxx
Orlov-xxx
Personally, I'd try this first
Grzelcyk-McAvoy
Lindholm-Carlo
Orlov-Clifton
Grzelcyk, Clifton, and Forbort would be match-up based. There may be certain teams where Grzelcyk's size is more of an issue. Clifton's recklessness can be problematic. I put Forbort last because his value is tied almost entirely to the PK, and the playoffs are more 5-on-5, plus his style fits the least with Montgomery's preference to activate his defensemen.
I’m curious to see what happens with Zboril. With the Orlov acquisition he moves to #8 in the pecking order. He can’t be sent to Providence without risking a waiver claim. So he sits. Not a good scenario for this young warrior.
Does he have any trade value?
The Laukomotive
Registered User
- Nov 26, 2017
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- 1,297
The only pair I do not see happening is Gryz - Clifton. Everything else, Monty will mix and match.
Mr. Make-Believe
The happy genius of my household
missingchicklet
Registered User
- Jan 24, 2010
- 36,589
- 34,463
I'm fully expecting Monty to try a variety of pairings once Orlov is here. What looks good/bad on paper doesn't always translate to what happens on the ice.
Monty has so much flexibility now. Who gets what amount of time on the PK/PP could very well make a difference in the 5x5 pairings he uses. Orlov is fairly versatile. Not a one-trick pony. Hopefully once Monty gets the pairings and ice-time stuff figured out he will be able to do some serious rotation down the stretch to rest these guys for a long playoff run.
Monty has so much flexibility now. Who gets what amount of time on the PK/PP could very well make a difference in the 5x5 pairings he uses. Orlov is fairly versatile. Not a one-trick pony. Hopefully once Monty gets the pairings and ice-time stuff figured out he will be able to do some serious rotation down the stretch to rest these guys for a long playoff run.
goldnblack
Registered User
- Jun 24, 2020
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Mr. Make-Believe
The happy genius of my household
KnightofBoston
Registered User
I know very little about advance stats in hockey but analyzing data is something I’m familiar with in the applied sciences field specifically with epidemiology, entomology, and plant physiology - so generally when we came up with a model that analyzed something effectively in the sense that it gave us data we couldn’t see traditionally, but said data didn’t fit what was actually happening in all situations, we needed to analyze further - here we have advanced stats vs the eye test, and so it seems to be that the two need to continue building off eachother rather than being opposite
So I ask the knowledgeable, non rhetorically, what do we conclude when gryzz’s “expected” stats do not actually match when ends up happening in practice? Someone posted his expected stats since the 2018 playoffs, along with ones since 2021. It also had tj brodie and Reilly of the leafs ahead of Cale makar, the kid who spearheaded a cup win. So something just seems…unfinished here?
Are we truly saying that these players in a vacuum are this but the team overall makes their play x? Or are some advanced stats misleading in practice and then building off that without trying to refine the model just makes them even more misleading?
Need those that are knowledgeable and have some scientific methods background to weigh in.
So I ask the knowledgeable, non rhetorically, what do we conclude when gryzz’s “expected” stats do not actually match when ends up happening in practice? Someone posted his expected stats since the 2018 playoffs, along with ones since 2021. It also had tj brodie and Reilly of the leafs ahead of Cale makar, the kid who spearheaded a cup win. So something just seems…unfinished here?
Are we truly saying that these players in a vacuum are this but the team overall makes their play x? Or are some advanced stats misleading in practice and then building off that without trying to refine the model just makes them even more misleading?
Need those that are knowledgeable and have some scientific methods background to weigh in.
