Winnipeg Jets Hockey Operations

[Thai jet*]

Five years in, seven if counting the bottoming out in Atl, Chipman has proven to be a very bad defacto Pres. of Hockey Operations. This organization needs some NHL experience up top. It concerned me from the start giving an equipment guy a senior position, hiring a first time GM, and an AHL coach (instead of Hitch) to lead the development of our young stars.
I think it is way past time that Chipman fires himself and his eyes/ears Heizinger and bring in some NHL level top management.

Click to read more...

 

[meedle]

At the very least needs to bring in an adviser. I posted it before, the Jets have one of the smallest management group, maybe the smallest in the league.

 

[Thai jet*]

At the very least needs to bring in an adviser. I posted it before, the Jets have one of the smallest management group, maybe the smallest in the league.

Not only small but devoid of a single NHL game as a coach or player.

 

[nobody important]

Five years in, seven if counting the bottoming out in Atl, Chipman has proven to be a very bad defacto Pres. of Hockey Operations.

Yes, from what I've heard, Chipman was pretty invisible through those turbulent final years in Atlanta. Never attending meetings, doing nothing to promote the club. No wonder the team had to leave.

 

[Evil Little]

Yes, from what I've heard, Chipman was pretty invisible through those turbulent final years in Atlanta. Never attending meetings, doing nothing to promote the club. No wonder the team had to leave.

I read one account of True North's involvement in the league prior to the expansion era. Or, should I say, lack thereof.

Pretty damning stuff...

 

[Channelcat]

I read one account of True North's involvement in the league prior to the expansion era. Or, should I say, lack thereof.

Pretty damning stuff...

I heard that when Hull signed at Portage and Main, Chipman didn't say a word. Just went back to his social studies homework like nothing happened.

 

[blues10]

Craig Heisinger Senior Vice President & Director Hockey Operations/Assistant General

I know that TNSE is very loyal to those in their ranks. However, seeing that things on the ice are not working out very well five years in should Craig Heisinger be on the hot seat? Amongst his duties, he is the Director of Hockey operations for the Jets and GM of the Moose.

Both teams are just horrific on the ice this season under Heisinger's watch.

It could be argued that he has been failing miserably in these roles. Should the Jets bring in someone new in the offseason prior to the draft? This organization is really operating in a bubble with nary any fresh faces/ideas in five years, save for Maurice entering the picture.

Replacing the "stick boy" with an experienced NHL person would not only bring fresh ideas but put Chevy on notice. This could be a very bold move in the right direction for this organization.

Chipman may also benefit from having a solid, experienced NHL executive among the ranks of TNSE.

This could be exactly the type of shake up TNSE as an organization needs in order to improve the on ice product of both the Jets and Moose.

Craig Heisinger enters his fifth season with the Winnipeg Jets in his role as Senior Vice-President & Director, Hockey Operations/Assistant General Manager. In his role, Heisinger also serves as the General Manager of the Manitoba Moose, the American Hockey League affiliate of the Winnipeg Jets.

http://jets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=70129

 

[Board Bard]

Should the Jets bring in someone new in the offseason prior to the draft?

Anyone interviewing for the job would be well advised to wear a suit from Moore's. No Armani for the Jets.

 

[RustyCat]

Look guys, I only have one pitchfork and can't go to all these rallies at the same time.

 

[blues10]

Look guys, I only have one pitchfork and can't go to all these rallies at the same time.

Home Depot is in the process of having a pitchfork sale.

Looks like local media is on their way to Home Depot.

So let's ask the question: with two last place teams playing in the same barn in the same city, both struggling to find their way after five years under the True North watch, who should be held accountable? This isn't just bad luck or a series of unfortunate events.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...-carolina-hurricanes-manitoba-moose-1.3436895

 

[Evil Little]

Look guys, I only have one pitchfork and can't go to all these rallies at the same time.

It's storytime for Jets fans!!! No narrative debunked!!!! All scapegoats blamed!!!!!

 

[KingBogo]

Look guys, I only have one pitchfork and can't go to all these rallies at the same time.

It will be like that from here on out. It will be like your best buddy slept with your wife thread after thread. Maybe a brief reprieve with a trade or 2 and with the draft. The summer will be relentless, but once we bounce back next season with a new elite player from a top 5 pick and a ROY candidate in Connor things will normalize again next season.

 

[truck]

It will be like that from here on out. It will be like your best buddy slept with your wife thread after thread. Maybe a brief reprieve with a trade or 2 and with the draft. The summer will be relentless, but once we bounce back next season with a new elite player from a top 5 pick and a ROY candidate in Connor things will normalize again next season.

Unless they are horrible again - which could happen if Ladd and Buff are moved.

 

[CZ]

I'll use Florida and Dallas as examples of having a terrible season last year. Yet both are near the top of the standings one season later. Things can change in a hurry from one season to the next. But the keys will be how our youngsters improve, what moves the team makes in the offseason and who they bring here that will have an immediate impact.....but time is running out on some peoples patience.

 

[Jetsetter]

The most important thread for all jets fans

Don't kid yourself. This is the most important thread on this site for Jets fans! I have the most admiration that one can have for what Chipman and Thompson have done for our city in getting us NHL hockey, once again.

Just because they both are some of Canada's best people at running companies, being top level business executives and having played hockey "once upon a time" doesn't make them great on-ice and or astute hockey decision maker types! As a matter of fact, great business people are critical thinkers and know that they can't do everything. Providing stewardship for your assets is the “art of guidance†and not "in the trenchesâ€! These are for the trusted great minds of hockey not a mix of commerce and hockey. You know the Steve Yzerman, Scotty Bowman types.

Look what’s happen, executive wise, in Toronto (as sad as that might sound) they have gone after the most sound executive branch they could attract from the coach on up. Even the Pres. of Hockey Operations hired away a very seasoned NJD's GM for help, guidance and special projects. Smart!

This is not about firing Chipman from Pres. of Hockey Operations, this about the owners of a potentially dominate NHL franchise making prudent business decisions to hire the best people in the business of putting together a hockey team together! With all due respect, ego isn't a great trait to have behind making the right decisions in business.

I really can understand the passion of the owners wanting to be "hands on" guys because they love the game so much BUT this is not a toy! Turning a blind eye to the facts of drafting as well as anyone has in the league and both of the teams in your control are at the bottom of their leagues, and falling, should be enough for a group of intelligent business persons to make good but difficult decisions from.

Look at successful franchises in any professional sport and compare them to teams that their owners make key decisions. The Harold Ballard, Jerry Jones types and look at their success records.

It’s time to add the most important label “the best run and successful team in sports†to the TNSE.

 

[Repoman]

^ good post. We'll see what happens at the deadline.

 

[Boxertim]

I heard that when Hull signed at Portage and Main, Chipman didn't say a word. Just went back to his social studies homework like nothing happened.

[mod] if i was drinking milk, it would have come out of my nose.

 

[blues10]

Time to look at this thread again.

I really believe that this offseason is time to bring in a legit front office hockey guy to run this organization or at bare minimum to act as a senior advisor. Someone with no prior ties to Chipman and Zinger or the Moose, Chevy and his Blackhawk and Wolves pals or associated with Maurice and his travels through the hockey world. In other words a fresh set of objective eyes with proven NHL experience who won't pander to the loyalty of which TNSE appears to be attached to.

Someone who determines and makes the clear decisions of the direction of this organization.

I know some people would like Hitch to coach but I wonder if this would be a role that he would be interested in. Although I highly doubt TNSE would bring someone into the TNSE loyalty rewards senior management program it may be time for Chipman to make an organizational change.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Don't kid yourself. This is the most important thread on this site for Jets fans! I have the most admiration that one can have for what Chipman and Thompson have done for our city in getting us NHL hockey, once again.

Just because they both are some of Canada's best people at running companies, being top level business executives and having played hockey "once upon a time" doesn't make them great on-ice and or astute hockey decision maker types! As a matter of fact, great business people are critical thinkers and know that they can't do everything. Providing stewardship for your assets is the “art of guidance†and not "in the trenchesâ€! These are for the trusted great minds of hockey not a mix of commerce and hockey. You know the Steve Yzerman, Scotty Bowman types.

Look what’s happen, executive wise, in Toronto (as sad as that might sound) they have gone after the most sound executive branch they could attract from the coach on up. Even the Pres. of Hockey Operations hired away a very seasoned NJD's GM for help, guidance and special projects. Smart!

This is not about firing Chipman from Pres. of Hockey Operations, this about the owners of a potentially dominate NHL franchise making prudent business decisions to hire the best people in the business of putting together a hockey team together! With all due respect, ego isn't a great trait to have behind making the right decisions in business.

I really can understand the passion of the owners wanting to be "hands on" guys because they love the game so much BUT this is not a toy! Turning a blind eye to the facts of drafting as well as anyone has in the league and both of the teams in your control are at the bottom of their leagues, and falling, should be enough for a group of intelligent business persons to make good but difficult decisions from.

Look at successful franchises in any professional sport and compare them to teams that their owners make key decisions. The Harold Ballard, Jerry Jones types and look at their success records.

It’s time to add the most important label “the best run and successful team in sports†to the TNSE.

Well thought and written.
I feel the same way.
Hopefully the ownership will divest themselves of too much direct involvement.
Nobody believes that building winner should take 1/2 decade or longer.
Its awesome Chipman got the NHL back but it's far from free.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I am just happy that this board and some hockey analysts are starting to ask serious questions about the Jets. I have been trying to raise these issues for months, but I am just some dumb Jets fan down in Florida. It is time for this organization from top to bottom to be put under a microscope. We need accountability and we need it now or we will be in the same place in another 6 years.

 

[tbcwpg]

Don't kid yourself. This is the most important thread on this site for Jets fans! I have the most admiration that one can have for what Chipman and Thompson have done for our city in getting us NHL hockey, once again.

Just because they both are some of Canada's best people at running companies, being top level business executives and having played hockey "once upon a time" doesn't make them great on-ice and or astute hockey decision maker types! As a matter of fact, great business people are critical thinkers and know that they can't do everything. Providing stewardship for your assets is the “art of guidance†and not "in the trenchesâ€! These are for the trusted great minds of hockey not a mix of commerce and hockey. You know the Steve Yzerman, Scotty Bowman types.

Look what’s happen, executive wise, in Toronto (as sad as that might sound) they have gone after the most sound executive branch they could attract from the coach on up. Even the Pres. of Hockey Operations hired away a very seasoned NJD's GM for help, guidance and special projects. Smart!

This is not about firing Chipman from Pres. of Hockey Operations, this about the owners of a potentially dominate NHL franchise making prudent business decisions to hire the best people in the business of putting together a hockey team together! With all due respect, ego isn't a great trait to have behind making the right decisions in business.

I really can understand the passion of the owners wanting to be "hands on" guys because they love the game so much BUT this is not a toy! Turning a blind eye to the facts of drafting as well as anyone has in the league and both of the teams in your control are at the bottom of their leagues, and falling, should be enough for a group of intelligent business persons to make good but difficult decisions from.

It’s time to add the most important label “the best run and successful team in sports†to the TNSE.

I don't think we can include Toronto in any kind of comparisons - they have a lot of money to throw around, and despite all the "richest owner" stuff we have going on with Thomson, it's clear that they aren't just going to funnel unlimited funds into the enterprise. Toronto (and other teams like NYR, Montreal, etc) are unique situations.

I agree with the notion that ownership should not be involved in day to day hockey operations. I get that they are fans and want to be involved, but there should be a limit to that involvement.

I think we need to forget about Hitch coaching in the NHL again, let alone for Winnipeg. If another coach is brought in, he probably won't be another NHL tenured guy.

Heisinger hasn't been a stick boy for a long time - he's decent at running the Moose (wins and losses in a developmental league are less important since you have less control over personnel). He shouldn't be involved in any capacity beyond assistant GM with the Jets. We're really picking at straws when we're going after guys at that level on the management team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Five years in, seven if counting the bottoming out in Atl, Chipman has proven to be a very bad defacto Pres. of Hockey Operations. This organization needs some NHL experience up top. It concerned me from the start giving an equipment guy a senior position, hiring a first time GM, and an AHL coach (instead of Hitch) to lead the development of our young stars.
I think it is way past time that Chipman fires himself and his eyes/ears Heizinger and bring in some NHL level top management.

The NHL level top management is Chevy. Adding layers of management is an exercise in futility followed by badly run large organizations. It inevitably turns out badly.

There are a few teams in the NHL which have needed such a position due to circumstances of ownership specific to them. TML is one example. They are owned by a corporate partnership and therefore need a person to fulfill the owners function. Canucks are another example. They have an EXTREMELY interfering owner and need someone to shield the GM from some of that interference. There is no indication that the Jets need anything of the kind.

You keep pounding away on this idea with no argument to demonstrate its validity. It appears to be based mostly on resentment of Heisinger in his position. Other than throwing meaningless disdain at him as a skate sharpener what argument do you have? What more competence do you expect or want from him? It doesn't matter what he has done before. It only matters what he is doing now. What exactly is wrong with his performance? What makes you characterize him as Chipman's 'spy'? What makes you think Chipman needs a spy?

 

[Blue Shakehead]

The NHL level top management is Chevy. Adding layers of management is an exercise in futility followed by badly run large organizations. It inevitably turns out badly.

There are a few teams in the NHL which have needed such a position due to circumstances of ownership specific to them. TML is one example. They are owned by a corporate partnership and therefore need a person to fulfill the owners function. Canucks are another example. They have an EXTREMELY interfering owner and need someone to shield the GM from some of that interference. There is no indication that the Jets need anything of the kind.

You keep pounding away on this idea with no argument to demonstrate its validity. It appears to be based mostly on resentment of Heisinger in his position. Other than throwing meaningless disdain at him as a skate sharpener what argument do you have? What more competence do you expect or want from him? It doesn't matter what he has done before. It only matters what he is doing now. What exactly is wrong with his performance? What makes you characterize him as Chipman's 'spy'? What makes you think Chipman needs a spy?

No argument to demonstrate its validity? i guess it's just a coincidence then that all these Moose people were given prominent roles in Hockey Ops? Chevy would have hired them anyway...they were the best candidates for the jobs:

- Craig Heisinger
- Claude Noel
- Wade Flaherty
- Jimmy Roy
- Mike Keane

Beyond stacking Hockey Ops with Moose personnel, there is considerable evidence that Chipman is heavily involved (ie., meddling) in the day to day operations of the team. Most of it from Chipman himself in various interviews or referenced other news articles suggesting he sits in on contract negotiations, draft meetings, etc. You can choose to ignore it, but this isn't some grassy knoll consipiracy theory. On the other hand, there is absolutely no evidence that Chevy has any level of independence from Chipman. Zip. Zilch, Zero.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No argument to demonstrate its validity? i guess it's just a coincidence then that all these Moose people were given prominent roles in Hockey Ops? Chevy would have hired them anyway...they were the best candidates for the jobs:

- Craig Heisinger
- Claude Noel
- Wade Flaherty
- Jimmy Roy
- Mike Keane

Beyond stacking Hockey Ops with Moose personnel, there is considerable evidence that Chipman is heavily involved (ie., meddling) in the day to day operations of the team. Most of it from Chipman himself in various interviews or referenced other news articles suggesting he sits in on contract negotiations, draft meetings, etc. You can choose to ignore it, but this isn't some grassy knoll consipiracy theory. On the other hand, there is absolutely no evidence that Chevy has any level of independence from Chipman. Zip. Zilch, Zero.

Of course he's involved. That's not the same as meddling. Nothing remotely like Vancouver. Sounds like tinfoil hat stuff to me. There is nothing substantial in what you call evidence. When you have something other than speculation that Chipman mandated something, anything, let me know. That is an interfering owner. Are you old enough to remember Harold Ballard?

 

[Puckatron 3000]

there is considerable evidence that Chipman is heavily involved (ie., meddling) in the day to day operations of the team. Most of it from Chipman himself in various interviews or referenced other news articles suggesting he sits in on contract negotiations, draft meetings, etc. You can choose to ignore it, but this isn't some grassy knoll consipiracy theory.

You may be right. But to me, merely sitting in on the meetings would not constitute meddling. That to me only shows an interest in the team, and learning more about how it functions. That seems like it could be beneficial for an owner. For example, that knowledge could help him make better financial decisions for TNSE.

To support an accusation of meddling, I'd have to see evidence that Chipman actually influences Chevy's decisions, not merely observes them. Maybe that exists, but I haven't seen it. Let me know if you've got anything on that, if it's out there I'd like to see it.

On the other hand, there is absolutely no evidence that Chevy has any level of independence from Chipman. Zip. Zilch, Zero.

What sort of evidence would prove this exactly? I'm not sure what evidence could prove the absence of meddling. You can only prove there is meddling, and if not, then you have to assume it's not there.