Winnipeg Jets going into the 24/25 season

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ok i'm not against analytics, they obviously help a little but they haven't been used since hockey began, maybe started in the last 20 years or so , how did teams ever win without using them ? How did some teams become dynasties without using them ? They have their use that's for sure but i want my coach to watch the play on the ice more than a ipad .

How did teams ever win without using them? Easy. They didn't have to compete with other teams that were using them. Games still had winners and losers.

Analytics looks at actual facts, in game events that actually happen. Counts them, collates them and analyzes them. It isn't some kind of voodoo.

Analytics provide coaches with useful information. That's all. A coach does not need to be a slave to data and analysis. Ignoring useful information in favour of your gut though is just foolish.

 

[surixon]

How did teams ever win without using them? Easy. They didn't have to compete with other teams that were using them. Games still had winners and losers.

Analytics looks at actual facts, in game events that actually happen. Counts them, collates them and analyzes them. It isn't some kind of voodoo.

Analytics provide coaches with useful information. That's all. A coach does not need to be a slave to data and analysis. Ignoring useful information in favour of your gut though is just foolish.

Agreed, moat playoff teams work hard. It's about using analytics to help apply that effort more effectively. Colorado did that to us.

Nobody is saying that our players also didn't execute but our coaching staff didn't change anything to counter what Colorado was doing to us which would have made it easier for our players.

 

[Jets 31]

Oilers won a cup after trading Wayne and the Lindros trade help set up the Avs for their cup win. It all depends on return, and I'm sure there are more examples

As for the ice time and even strength vs all situations, you do undersaltand that P/60 doesn't scale linearly and if looking at graphing absolute production, it will be an inverted J - meaning there is a point of diminishing returns. Where that point is will be different for different players, but it's foolish to assume that playing a high P/60 player more will automatically result in more production.

Playing Ehlers more could also mean more giveaways and mistakes because of being tired. I love watching Ehlers play but i don't like how he disappears in the playoffs and i will say it again i don't want him traded but there is a chance a trade makes us better overall, not a huge chance but to say Chevy couldn't pull off a good trade , no way at all is looking at it very one sided.

 

[WolfHouse]

Playing Ehlers more could also mean more giveaways and mistakes because of being tired. I love watching Ehlers play but i don't like how he disappears in the playoffs and i will say it again i don't want him traded but there is a chance a trade makes us better overall, not a huge chance but to say Chevy couldn't pull off a good trade , no way at all is looking at it very one sided.

I'd rather keep him as an own-rental than do something like that Chytil/Kappo deal....

 

[LowLefty]

Agreed, moat playoff teams work hard. It's about using analytics to help apply that effort more effectively. Colorado did that to us.

Nobody is saying that our players also didn't execute but our coaching staff didn't change anything to counter what Colorado was doing to us which would have made it easier for our players.

When listening to Lowry's season end comments, he mentioned that the coaching did make adjustments but the players didn't necessarily execute.
Why is it assumed the coaches are doing nothing? Why do we assume the players are doing what they are asked?

 

[surixon]

When listening to Lowry's season end comments, he mentioned that the coaching did make adjustments but the players didn't necessarily execute.
Why is it assumed the coaches are doing nothing? Why do we assume the players are doing what they are asked?

And numerous players said they didn't make adjustments. I also didn't just say it was on coaching in a prior post but also on players to execute as well. I think it's clearly a failing of both that we crashed out.

 

[LowLefty]

And numerous players said they didn't make adjustments. I also didn't just say it was on coaching in a prior post but also on players to execute as well. I think it's clearly a failing of both that we crashed out.

I'm going with the Captains comments -

I also heard others state they didn't make adjustments but it sounded more like the players didn't make the adjustments (not necessarily the coaching).
IIRC, Lowry had to correct Helle when he called out this very point - he made it clear that the coaches did want the team to make adjustments but they didn't do a very good job of executing. When the captain calls this out while sitting beside Helle, it makes perfect sense to me that there was an issue with execution.

 

[surixon]

I'm going with the Captains comments -

I also heard others state they didn't make adjustments but it sounded more like the players didn't make the adjustments (not necessarily the coaching).
IIRC, Lowry had to correct Helle when he called out this very point - he made it clear that the coaches did want the team to make adjustments but they didn't do a very good job of executing. When the captain calls this out while sitting beside Helle, it makes perfect sense to me that there was an issue with execution.

Well we have conflicting info on that. The team top to bottom failed imo.

 

[gojetsgo]

I'm going with the Captains comments -

I also heard others state they didn't make adjustments but it sounded more like the players didn't make the adjustments (not necessarily the coaching).
IIRC, Lowry had to correct Helle when he called out this very point - he made it clear that the coaches did want the team to make adjustments but they didn't do a very good job of executing. When the captain calls this out while sitting beside Helle, it makes perfect sense to me that there was an issue with execution.

or he knew bones was retiring and didn't want him to go out like that, I mean scheifele/nino/helle all called out the not making adjustments

 

[LowLefty]

or he knew bones was retiring and didn't want him to go out like that, I mean scheifele/nino/helle all called out the not making adjustments

Sure - he knew bones was retiring and as the captain of this team, he decided to throw his goaltender under the bus to make sure nobody hurt the coaches feelings.
As for Scheif, he'll always find a reason that has nothing to do with him - as long as they all go heavy on the protein shakes over the summer, they all come back 10% better - let's run with that and hope for the best.

 

[Gm0ney]

Goaltending needs to take some of the blame for sure - but out d has been pretty bad, especially this latest PO.
I think we expect Helle to be the difference maker - and he's paid to be that at times. But if that's the game plan, we're in trouble IMO.
Our Dzone coverage this last PO was a goaltenders nightmare - and I agree with Helle's season closing comments on what he was up against vs the Aves.

It's just that we're looking at tiny samples: 22 games spread across 5 series over 5 years. 3 of those series the Jets were not a good hockey team at all. The last two series, goaltending has been the worst in the playoffs.

Maybe there's something psychological going on as well...Wheeler's pissbaby legacy is engrained too deeply in the current team core.

 

[gojetsgo]

Sure - he knew bones was retiring and as the captain of this team, he decided to throw his goaltender under the bus to make sure nobody hurt the coaches feelings.
As for Scheif, he'll always find a reason that has nothing to do with him - as long as they all go heavy on the protein shakes over the summer, they all come back 10% better - let's run with that and hope for the best.

he didn't really throw helle utb at all and wtf is wrong with a player wanting to make adjustments when clearly what they were doing was not working.. also see you forgot to mention nino also saying they needed to make adjustments...

how are people honestly getting mad that a player said they need to improve in the summer time after being eliminated in round 1 of the playoffs...

 

[LowLefty]

he didn't really throw helle utb at all and wtf is wrong with a player wanting to make adjustments when clearly what they were doing was not working.. also see you forgot to mention nino also saying they needed to make adjustments...

how are people honestly getting mad that a player said they need to improve in the summer time after being eliminated in round 1 of the playoffs...

Who said I'm mad - you love to assume don't you?
Nothing wrong with wanting to improve - I would have liked to hear what they need to improve on other than physical fitness and health.
Improving starts with understanding what they need to improve on - and it's more than diet. I laughed out loud when I heard him say that.
Under the bus is just a term - don't get hung up on it. He basically corrected Helle on a statement that pointed at the coach rather than the players.
Sorry, did it miss Nino? - my apologies - but I'll stick with the Captains comments.

 

[gojetsgo]

Who said I'm mad - you love to assume don't you?
Nothing wrong with wanting to improve - I would have liked to hear what they need to improve on other than physical fitness and health.
Improving starts with understanding what they need to improve on - and it's more than diet. I laughed out loud when I heard him say that.
Under the bus is just a term - don't get hung up on it. He basically corrected Helle on a statement that pointed at the coach rather than the players.
Sorry, did it miss Nino? - my apologies - but I'll stick with the Captains comments.

so basically scheifele just lied because he selfish and helle/nino also said the same thing because of "reasons" and lowry is the only one correct because he is the captain...

 

[Buffdog]

Why is everyone stuck on "adjustments"?

The Jets got out worked. Their compete level, effort and intensity weren't ont he same level as the Avs. People make it sound like some Xs and Os would have changed the outcome of the series

They lost puck battles, got beaten to loose pucks in corners, didn't go to the dirty places in the Avs zone but let the Avs set up camp in front of helle, etc

And for the record, I noticed at least two adjustments made and implemented by the Jets as the series went on. I wonder if anyone else paid close enough attention to notice any at all

 

[LowLefty]

so basically scheifele just lied because he selfish and helle/nino also said the same thing because of "reasons" and lowry is the only one correct because he is the captain...

Sure - that's what I'm saying - lol.
Lowry is a great captain because he doesn't beat around the bush - he called out execution and compete.
So yes, I listen to what he says - because it's a breath of fresh air to hear your the team captain call it like it is.
So rather than me calling anyone a liar (which I didn't do BTW), I'll call a captain with a ton of integrity, someone I will listen to and believe.

 

[WolfHouse]

Sure - he knew bones was retiring and as the captain of this team, he decided to throw his goaltender under the bus to make sure nobody hurt the coaches feelings.
As for Scheif, he'll always find a reason that has nothing to do with him - as long as they all go heavy on the protein shakes over the summer, they all come back 10% better - let's run with that and hope for the best.

I'm going to drink 10% more beer over the summer so my posts are even more insightful next season.

 

[LowLefty]

I'm going to drink 10% more beer over the summer so my posts are even more insightful next season.

LOL -

 

[WaveRaven]

I'm going to drink 10% more beer over the summer so my posts are even more insightful next season.

We need more of this spirit in here

 

[robertocarlos]

Where's the "blow it up good" choice?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

yup, if people are going to claim ehlers is a top 10 winger in the nhl then they should not be defending his playoff performances

I don't think anyone is defending Ehlers' PO performance. I'm certainly not. But I am not isolating on him and blaming him for the failings of all of the other players either.

Jets lost mostly due to lack of team D from front to back. I don't know if anyone could be excluded from fault.

 

[JetsFan815]

The Jets will trade Ehlers they won't just let him walk to free agency, maybe the trade would help the Jets if they get a good return.

Have the Jets even tried to re-sign Ehlers? I agree that odds are he would want to test free agency but based on the reporting I've heard (and I may have missed something), there hasn't been an indication of the Jets being eager to sign him. We certainly haven't heard the kind of reporting from last summer with Helle.

Can the Jets try making an "offer he can't refuse" to Ehlers? If they offer him 8x8million, does that get him to consider signing? I doubt many teams are offering him that in the open market so he might be open to that and signing him to that figure would give him more assurance that the Jets will use him better if they are already paying him like a top line winger.

 

[DRW204]

Have the Jets even tried to re-sign Ehlers? I agree that odds are he would want to test free agency but based on the reporting I've heard (and I may have missed something), there hasn't been an indication of the Jets being eager to sign him. We certainly haven't heard the kind of reporting from last summer with Helle.

Can the Jets try making an "offer he can't refuse" to Ehlers? If they offer him 8x8million, does that get him to consider signing? I doubt many teams are offering him that in the open market so he might be open to that and signing him to that figure would give him more assurance that the Jets will use him better if they are already paying him like a top line winger.

U can't till July 1

 

[JetsFan815]

U can't till July 1

Yeah but balloons are floated all the time with stuff like "Team X would love to lock in their pending UFA ASAP". So far all we have heard is a Murat report saying the Jets will look to explore the market for Ehlers... nothing about their desire to re-sign him. For example last year it was pretty obvious the org wanted to re-sign Helle well before the summer.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think people are confusing the backlash as being directed at Ehlers, but it's actually towards the posters who diefy him.

In fairness, there's only a handful but they seem to be the most vocal and the most stubborn on the topic

I think you have it completely backwards. Only defending when attacked.

Name 1 poster who has said that Ehlers was godlike and only let down by _________ .