Helene St. James Wings eyeing Bouchard

[Shaman464]

Bouchard feels like a guy who will be a middle pairing guy when its all said and done. It scares me that his numbers aren't even as good as del Zotto's were in the OHL and the fact he's massive playing with kids. Players who are 6'2'' at 17-18 can use their bodies in ways in the juniors that won't translate to the NHL when they are playing against players their own size.

 

[Frk It]

Bouchard feels like a guy who will be a middle pairing guy when its all said and done. It scares me that his numbers aren't even as good as del Zotto's were in the OHL and the fact he's massive playing with kids. Players who are 6'2'' at 17-18 can use their bodies in ways in the juniors that won't translate to the NHL when they are playing against players their own size.

Del Zotto did not have better numbers in his draft season or his +1 season. Bouchard’s 87 pts in 67 games are markedly better than either of those season.

Del Zotto is smaller and also didn’t even attempt at playing defense in Juniors.

 

[Orthodox Caveman]

Thought I read somewhere that Bouchard’s numbers went up after London traded away several good players?

 

[TheMule93]

Flip flopper!!! jk

Such a marginal perceived difference between the prospects there's some shuffling going on. I just remembered reading your name as a like minded individual.

Oh OK. Yeah I've flip flopped a lot, I think my list is done for now but it will probably be diff by draft day . You're right they're all so close, I'll be happy with any of them

 

[Frk It]

Thought I read somewhere that Bouchard’s numbers went up after London traded away several good players?

Not really. His PPG didn’t change too much from January to the end of the season.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

One thing that sticks out to me about Bouchard...is after the Knights gutted the team, he still put up great numbers and led them to the playoffs.

Even was a PPG in the playoffs.

 

[newfy]

Del Zotto did not have better numbers in his draft season or his +1 season. Bouchard’s 87 pts in 67 games are markedly better than either of those season.

Del Zotto is smaller and also didn’t even attempt at playing defense in Juniors.

Was wondering what he was talking about too. Del Zotto literally went one point over point per game in his last season of junior after being traded to a really solid Knights team. Bouchard blew those numbers out of the water this year and Del Zotto has no defensive game to speak of. Seems like a really weird grab at a random offensive dman who didnt work in the NHL to compare to a guy that he doesnt want the wings to draft. Del Zotto was nowhere near the prospect Bouchard is.

One thing that sticks out to me about Bouchard...is after the Knights gutted the team, he still put up great numbers and led them to the playoffs.

Even was a PPG in the playoffs.

Yep people want an offensive dman and clamour for Hughes or Boqvist. Bouchard had no talent but consistently made great passes and got a great shot through from the point to have a ridiculously productive junior season. Hes not some fancy, end to end dangler/rover like Hughes, but I wouldnt be surprised if hes more productive in the NHL at all

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Idk about Bouchard.

He seems to have really heavy feet and I'm not sure I see enough in terms if compete level. He just looks super nonchalant and his footwork is soooo slow. I don't see much ability that's going to translate with less time and space in tougher leagues.

I'm a bit worried that Wright is blinded by size again.

For what it’s worth, and I’ve been skeptical of Bouchard, people said that kind of stuff about Lidstrom.

 

[Shaman464]

Yep people want an offensive dman and clamour for Hughes or Boqvist. Bouchard had no talent but consistently made great passes and got a great shot through from the point to have a ridiculously productive junior season. Hes not some fancy, end to end dangler/rover like Hughes, but I wouldnt be surprised if hes more productive in the NHL at all

What would give you that idea? He's a man playing with boys. Being his size means his flaws are a lot less evident and his skills are magnified.

 

[HIFE]

...Yep people want an offensive dman and clamour for Hughes or Boqvist. Bouchard had no talent but consistently made great passes and got a great shot through from the point to have a ridiculously productive junior season. Hes not some fancy, end to end dangler/rover like Hughes, but I wouldnt be surprised if hes more productive in the NHL at all

Good to hear. Yeah the "offensive"/"defensive" labels can become meaningless. Great players win battles and make plays, it's that simple.

Out of the 3 or 4 D prospects talked about I think the Wings need to go after the guy who is nearest ready to jump in. If that's Bouchard then cool. They DESPERATELY need more talent and young energy to pump some life into the team, and as soon as possible.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Bouchard feels like a guy who will be a middle pairing guy when its all said and done. It scares me that his numbers aren't even as good as del Zotto's were in the OHL and the fact he's massive playing with kids. Players who are 6'2'' at 17-18 can use their bodies in ways in the juniors that won't translate to the NHL when they are playing against players their own size.

Just to pile on here, Bouchard's numbers are significantly better than Del Zotto's. Bouchard led his team in scoring by like 35 points. He was in the top 10 for league scoring.

So if you're going to bag on him, you need to come up with a different reason.

Claiming that he's pushing kids around in the OHL because he's 6'2 is pretty weak, as well. 6'2 is not especially tall for the OHL.

 

[Claypool]

Bouchard feels like a guy who will be a middle pairing guy when its all said and done.

Because...?

Dahlin is the only defenseman in the draft that's projected to become a true #1.

 

[ricky0034]

What would give you that idea? He's a man playing with boys. Being his size means his flaws are a lot less evident and his skills are magnified.

so just out of curiosity would it be fair to say that Boqvist is the only one of the 4 defensemen around where the Wings are picking that you like?

because i've seen you say that the Wings shouldn't even consider drafting Hughes because he's too small and if Bouchard's size is making him look better than he is then surely Dobson's is as well considering he's an inch taller than Bouchard is

 

[Henkka]

One thing that sticks out to me about Bouchard...is after the Knights gutted the team, he still put up great numbers and led them to the playoffs.

Even was a PPG in the playoffs.

Yep.

Bouchard's team-mate-adjusted/team-scoring-adjusted/age-adjusted scoring is best OHL season ever for a defenceman on my formula.

If everybody is blaiming his skating and other weaknesses, his natural skill level must be from another planet, because he did score at phenomenal level.

That reminds me of Lidström, not the fastest, not the most physical, but just did things right and was deadly skilled and smart on PP.

 

[jkutswings]

I think any of Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson/Hughes can be picked apart, at least to an extent.

I also firmly believe that any one of them would immediately be the best prospect on defense this team has acquired in nearly 20 years, and will ultimately help the roster.

Gimme any one of those four blue liners, and then let's get creative for how to maximize the rest of the first two rounds, to really make this draft a turning point for the franchise in the long run.

 

[newfy]

What would give you that idea? He's a man playing with boys. Being his size means his flaws are a lot less evident and his skills are magnified.

Hes 6'2, hes not some Chara that just flat out dominates because no one can get around him. Also hes not a guy just flying aroud everyone with his speed. Hes using natural offensive instincts. Hes moving the puck well and getting his shots through. It doesnt matter if youre 5'9 or 6'2 to produce offence that way. Also, youre right hes a solid size and definitely a man. But the thing about the NHL is its all men, so maybe drafting a guy you know is going to be a man and not some scrawny little thing trying to defend against the bigger NHL guys isnt a bad thing.

In what way is a point shot magnified because of size? Because hes bigger, its harder? Guess what, the harder shot is better in the NHL so if size means better point shot I'm fine with that. You dont get an extra goal on the board in the NHL for scoring with a softer shot.

Like I said, youre taking a big reach to discredit a guy you dont want the wings to draft for some reason. If Bouchard had the exact same skillset but was only 5'11 I bet you would love him

 

[DetroitRed]

I don't think Bouchard's skating is a true weakness. He's no pylon. In general, I think he'll be a very good skating defender, one with very good size in addition to nice offensive ability. If you compare his skating to that of Dobson, Hughes and Boqvist, then you have more of a point, but two of those other guys are pretty much just offensive defenders. Bouchard I think would have good offense and more. So, I think Bouchard compares favorably to Hughes and Boqvist, even without the worry over size or possible multiple concussions.

Further, I would note, when comparing Bouchard's skating to say that of Hughes, that while Hughes' skating would kind of give you the neat option of putting a fourth forward on the ice, he likely wont make a first pairing in the NHL for his defensive ability. Hughes I think would be almost entirely offensive at the NHL level. I also think, like Bouchard's skating, Hughes' offensive talent isn't such a strength when comparing him to Bouchard, Boqvist and Dobson, who will all strengthen a team pretty nicely offensively in their own ways. With Boqvist, I believe you would have a similar situation to that involving Hughes, although maybe not quite so extreme.

Where offense is concerned, I think it's a neat luxury to get great offense from a defender if you can afford it because you already have enough good defense, or if you are getting good offense from a guy who also defends well. That doesn't remind of the situation that the Wings have at all though, not in any way, shape, form, or stretch of the imagination. That's one reason why I would go Bouchard over Boqvist and Hughes, I think he brings more than just offense.

So, I would be happy to have Bouchard, but still I'd probably trade his better offensive talent for Dobson's better defense if the option is there on draft day. Dobson is bigger, can defend well, contribute nicely to the offense, and skate his a$$ off. Notwithstanding, I don't think the Wings are putting up much, if any, smokescreen around Bouchard though. I think Bouchard's got a lot of what the Red Wings want plus some impressive intangibles.

 

[RedWingzz]

I don't know lol, but my ranking goes boqvist dobson Hughes bouchard at this point

I'm not saying you're wrong to have Dobson ahead of Bouchard, but can you give me a paragraph explaining your reasoning? Personally, I don't have Dobson anywhere near Bouchard as far as potential. I like Dobson, but I don't see elite PP QB with tremendous vision and smarts.

As far as Boqvist, last week Craig Button was on Ottawa radio, and he was basically saying how unimpressed he is with Boqvist's compete level, and whenever he watches him, he looks like he doesn't even care to be out on the ice. I know this is just 1 man's opinion, but Button does his homework when it comes to prospects. Before hearing this, I had it ranked as Boqvist, Bouchard, Hughes, Dobson. Now though I think I prefer Bouchard.

 

[Frk It]

I'm n0t saying you're wrong to hve Dobson aead of Bouchard, but can you give me a paragraph explaining your reasoning? Personally, I don't have Dobson anywhere near Bouchard as far as potential. I like Dobson, but I don't see elite PP QB with tremendous vision and smarts. Last week Craig Button was on Ottawa radio, and he was basically saying how unimpressed he is with Boqvist's compete level, and whenever he watches him, he looks like he doesn't even care to be out on the ice. I know this is just 1 man's opinion, but Buton does his homework when it comes to prospects. Before hearing this, I had it ranked as Boqvist, Bouchard, Hughes, Dobson. Now though I think I prefer Bouchard.

Dobson is a better skater, longer, and better defensively. I am more confident Dobson will be a guy who can play in all situations, even if he’s not as productive on the PP as Bouchard. To me that has more value. My main concern with Bouchard is he ends up a PP specialist in the NHL, but I do think his flaws are overstated for the most part.

As far as compete level goes, the only guy out of those 4 I have heard concerns with there is Bouchard. Mark Edwards of hockeyprospect.com has been pretty adamant all year that’s the only reason they don’t rank him top 5 or top 10.

 

[TheMule93]

I'm not saying you're wrong to have Dobson ahead of Bouchard, but can you give me a paragraph explaining your reasoning? Personally, I don't have Dobson anywhere near Bouchard as far as potential. I like Dobson, but I don't see elite PP QB with tremendous vision and smarts.

As far as Boqvist, last week Craig Button was on Ottawa radio, and he was basically saying how unimpressed he is with Boqvist's compete level, and whenever he watches him, he looks like he doesn't even care to be out on the ice. I know this is just 1 man's opinion, but Button does his homework when it comes to prospects. Before hearing this, I had it ranked as Boqvist, Bouchard, Hughes, Dobson. Now though I think I prefer Bouchard.

i believe bouchard has the least chance of any of the dmen to produce offense at the NHL level. He cant create offense with his skating unlike the other 3, he plays a slow game. That is the opposite of where the current NHL is heading. Hes also much worse defensively than Dobson (that goes for boqvist and hughes too). I just don't have as much faith in him to produce offense as i do the others. We need a real dynamic player on the back end, im not sure bouchard is the guy.

I still like him because hes got a ton of potential though. He's a great prospect.

 

[Frk It]

i believe bouchard has the least chance of any of the dmen to produce offense at the NHL level. He cant create offense with his skating unlike the other 3, he plays a slow game. That is the opposite of where the current NHL is heading. Hes also much worse defensively than Dobson (that goes for boqvist and hughes too). I just don't have as much faith in him to produce offense as i do the others. We need a real dynamic player on the back end, im not sure bouchard is the guy.

I still like him because hes got a ton of potential though. He's a great prospect.

I wouldn’t worry about that. I think he will be able to produce on a PP at any level of play.

He sees the ice very well, makes quick reads, and he had a great shot. That’s moreso how he makes plays and produces points as opposed to with his skating.

The John Carlson comparison is a pretty good one with Bouchard. He’s not that slippery or flashy with the puck, and not the fastest guy. But he has a hammer of a shot that he gets through traffic and has great vision in the offensive zone. Mike Green is probably another guy he is stylistically similar to.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I wouldn’t worry about that. I think he will be able to produce on a PP at any level of play.

He sees the ice very well, makes quick reads,
and he had a great shot. That’s moreso how he makes plays and produces points as opposed to with his skating.

The John Carlson comparison is a pretty good one with Bouchard. He’s not that slippery or flashy with the puck, and not the fastest guy. But he has a hammer of a shot that he gets through traffic and has great vision in the offensive zone.

Carlson though learned to be a better stop and start skater. I think that is critical for what Bouchard does. I know he plays heavy minutes and that factors into style as well, but I think that is the part of the heavy feet that people are missing. When you talk about Lidstrom as a guy that wasn't an electrifying skater as some just did, he often pulled out big time edgework and start and stop skating when it was called for. He could conserve energy, Suter does this a lot too, but when they needed to they flashed substantial skating traits and fundamentals.

Bouchard could learn that, but heck Carlson was drafted where our Vegas pick went. Yes he knocked it out of the park development wise but I mean there is a reason he went down there originally...

 

[Frk It]

Carlson though learned to be a better stop and start skater. I think that is critical for what Bouchard does. I know he plays heavy minutes and that factors into style as well, but I think that is the part of the heavy feet that people are missing. When you talk about Lidstrom as a guy that wasn't an electrifying skater as some just did, he often pulled out big time edgework and start and stop skating when it was called for. He could conserve energy, Suter does this a lot too, but when they needed to they flashed substantial skating traits and fundamentals.

Bouchard could learn that, but heck Carlson was drafted where our Vegas pick went. Yes he knocked it out of the park development wise but I mean there is a reason he went down there originally...

I think every defenseman not named Dahlin in this draft is going to need to make improvements to be an effective player as they go up a level in play. It’s just a matter of your opinion on how likely they are to happen. I think Bouchard has some things you can’t teach, and the things he needs to improve are correctable/fixable.

Pointing out where Carlson got drafted is a little unfair, there has been a big philosophical change in how defenseman get drafted now as opposed to them.

 

[WingsOverAvs]

unless BUF goes full Pejorative Slur and wants to trade DET the #1 pick, Boqvist would be my top dman choice. Wahlstrom would be my next choice if Bo isnt still on the board

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think every defenseman not named Dahlin in this draft is going to need to make improvements to be an effective player as they go up a level in play. It’s just a matter of your opinion on how likely they are to happen. I think Bouchard has some things you can’t teach, and the things he needs to improve are correctable/fixable.

Pointing out where Carlson got drafted is a little unfair, there has been a big philosophical change in how defenseman get drafted now as opposed to them.

I think they can be too. I don't bank on it happening as easily for him as say Dobson. It is a part of how I factor him in when comparing him. But I agree Dahlin and Svechnikov for me are the only sure-fire guys in the draft. I will be stunned if little Svech isn't a top 10 winger in the game in a couple seasons. I am personally a very big believer in Hughes, but there are absolutely trapping to that selection.

We are going to have to develop this guy. If it is Bouchard, that is the project, I hope we get him into power skating and improving his flexibility a little in terms of targeting those areas for improvement. Again just so I am not misunderstood, Bouchard would represent a blue-chip prospect to me. Something we as a fanbase can be excited about, I am not going to go completely off the deep end, I just really like some of the other options. If they want to go size, I just pray they go Dobson over him is all.