Will the USHL ever expand?

paul-laus

Registered User
Jun 20, 2007
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I remember that it didn’t seem all that long ago that the USHL were rumoured to be looking at adding an additional city or two to the league.

I had heard rumblings including some on these forums that the USHL were considering adding a team in suburban Saint Louis at some planned ice rink complex under construction. I swore that Kansas City had been mentioned as well and before Corralville landed the ECHL, they were considering USHL hockey.

Indiana Ice were initially dormant for a few seasons as opposed to outright folding as well so there most have been some belief of them returning at some point or moving to a different city. Was Central Illinois out of Bloomington ever seriously looking at relocating?

For a league that seems like its level of play is really getting a lot better the USHL sure don’t seem to have any ambitions of expanding the footprint…..
 

Barclay Donaldson

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Feb 4, 2018
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I remember that it didn’t seem all that long ago that the USHL were rumoured to be looking at adding an additional city or two to the league.

I had heard rumblings including some on these forums that the USHL were considering adding a team in suburban Saint Louis at some planned ice rink complex under construction. I swore that Kansas City had been mentioned as well and before Corralville landed the ECHL, they were considering USHL hockey.

Indiana Ice were initially dormant for a few seasons as opposed to outright folding as well so there most have been some belief of them returning at some point or moving to a different city. Was Central Illinois out of Bloomington ever seriously looking at relocating?

For a league that seems like its level of play is really getting a lot better the USHL sure don’t seem to have any ambitions of expanding the footprint…..

Expanding waters down the product. The only reason their product is good is because they've marketed their development to the players down perfectly. Adding two more teams doesn't do anything for them
 

JMCx4

Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Sep 3, 2017
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... I had heard rumblings including some on these forums that the USHL were considering adding a team in suburban Saint Louis at some planned ice rink complex under construction. I swore that Kansas City had been mentioned as well and before Corralville landed the ECHL, they were considering USHL hockey.

Indiana Ice were initially dormant for a few seasons as opposed to outright folding as well so there most have been some belief of them returning at some point or moving to a different city. Was Central Illinois out of Bloomington ever seriously looking at relocating? ...
Beyond the truth telling of @Barclay Donaldson above ...

(1) No serious junior ownership option arose in the St. Louis Metro, and the new 4-sheet arena (Centene Ice) attracted the STL Blues practice facilities plus now two NCAA Div I teams (women & men).
(2) No matter how much wishin' & hopin' swirls around the KC Metro, neither additional pro nor junior hockey there is a foreseeable reality. New junior-appropriate hockey facilities seem to suffer time & again from too many competing options on the Kansas side of town.
(3) Coralville's Xtream Arena needed something more than a junior tenant to meet its business plans. And the Heartlanders will be on the bubble if they don't show competitive promise in the next year or two.
(4) I haven't kept up with the Indiana Ice franchise fate. But the Bloomington IL USHL team left after 5 lackluster seasons, and the owner showed no further interest in juniors (matching the paltry attendance). I suspect the League's satisfaction with their current membership numbers - and growing uncertainty about the future of Des Moines (and possibly other teams - Omaha?) - will prevent the former BLM franchise from being brought back into play.
 

mk80

Registered User
Jul 30, 2012
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I remember that it didn’t seem all that long ago that the USHL were rumoured to be looking at adding an additional city or two to the league.

I had heard rumblings including some on these forums that the USHL were considering adding a team in suburban Saint Louis at some planned ice rink complex under construction. I swore that Kansas City had been mentioned as well and before Corralville landed the ECHL, they were considering USHL hockey.

Indiana Ice were initially dormant for a few seasons as opposed to outright folding as well so there most have been some belief of them returning at some point or moving to a different city. Was Central Illinois out of Bloomington ever seriously looking at relocating?

For a league that seems like its level of play is really getting a lot better the USHL sure don’t seem to have any ambitions of expanding the footprint…..
In St. Louis the potential owner that was in talks of partnering with the Blues at their now built practice facility didn't have enough money to do it. The Blues and local Lindenwood University ended up partnering and now the space that would have been for the USHL is home to LU's program.

KC never really got off the ground, and Lamar Hunt's ambition to then bring in the NAHL also fell through.
 
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paul-laus

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Jun 20, 2007
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I’ll never comprehend the rationale of hockey fans on these boards absolute insistence on any league expanding due to their perceived watering down of the product….it doesn’t matter if it’s the QMJHL, the ECHL, DIV 1 Hockey, or anything else….the steadfast dedication to the credo “less is more” guides all’s belief. It’s funny, I’ve never heard an MLS fan gripe about the 10 teams that have joined that league in a record span. I’ve never heard an NFL fan ever complain about too many team’s watering down the product at 32 franchises…but the moment the NHL even toyed with expanding beyond 30, hockey fans were just devastated at the mere concept…it’s funny, I can’t recall an MLB or NBA fan ever make the same accusation either. I’m not in favour of expanding just for the sake of expanding (particularly if there are franchises that need to be propped up) but there is something to be said for development, progression, and growth of a sport via entrance into new markets….would it be the above posters position that the USHL should never expand again simply because they believe adding a team would so catastrophically affect the on-ice product of a league that the level of play would be unwatchable?
 

Barclay Donaldson

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Feb 4, 2018
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It’s funny, I’ve never heard an MLS fan gripe about the 10 teams that have joined that league in a record span.

Red herring fallacy on your part. MLS fans haven't complained about decreased talent to make a noticeable for two reasons: their youth academies are churning about better players due to simply being more established and the MLS allowed teams to attract more more top quality talent from Europe to come over. Neither was occuring at such a pace before the league's hyperexpansion, talent that didn't come over in such quantity before the hyperexpansion the MLS has experienced.

Fans and pundits have complained about the top to bottom parity on the average roster. It is actually fairly common. It just doesn't affect the league's outlook much because star power is more of a concern from a fan perspective and it doesn't affect the national team, so neither issue is brought to the wider attention of the media.

I’ve never heard an NFL fan ever complain about too many team’s watering down the product at 32 franchises
Another red herring fallacy. The league has expanded only six times since the 70s, and once in this century. They're also not competing with anyone for talent, unlike every other league in the US expect for maybe the NBA. So watered down talent isn't on the NFL fan's radar.

but the moment the NHL even toyed with expanding beyond 30, hockey fans were just devastated at the mere concept

Because the top to bottom level of hockey has decreased. There is not much difference at the moment between fourth liners in the NHL and second/third liners in the AHL. And it has been undeniably linked with expansion.

would it be the above posters position that the USHL should never expand again simply because they believe adding a team would so catastrophically affect the on-ice product of a league that the level of play would be unwatchable?

Never expand again? That's a long time. They shouldn't expand until the quantity and quantity of hockey youth hockey players, both of which have been increasing nearly every year since the turn of the century, catches up with the league. And it should only be to a market capable of fully supporting the team in a USHL-standard arena. Kansas City and St. Louis both weren't good matches. KC couldn't even handle a NAHL team.

I don't think you're on the same wavelength as the rest of us on this. The USHL is about player development. It is all over their website. It is all over any marketing thing they do. As long as the franchises are in the black, I highly doubt they're caring too much about fan experience. Take two seconds and look at anything they do. It is advertising to the players. Besides, the USHL only gets a few thousand fans a game. I highly doubt the vast majority of fans are attending because it is high level hockey or to watch the USAH development model go to work. They likely attend for the same reasons all minor league fans attend: they're having a fun night out at the game. What they're watching on the ice isn't as important as the fan experience. Tha

Adding two or three teams won't affect the attendances in all likely. It will bring the talent level down. If the talent level goes down, they don't get those handful of players on each team that choose them over the OHL, WHL, domestic European leagues, etc. Players are choosing the USHL over the OHL at the moment. The league is the place to play if you want to develop and do everything else USHL alumni do and have done in greater numbers. If the level of play drops, they stop getting those players. If that trend continues for more than a few seasons, you might or might not see fan attendance dip. You will definitely see the league stop being a destination for players who choose to play there over major juniors. Since the USHL chooses when and where they add teams, they aren't going to do it for fans since their concentration is on developing players. And at the end of the day, that's all the league, and all of us for that matter, should care about.
 
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JMCx4

Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Sep 3, 2017
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@paul-laus ... The "watering down of the product" is affected by more than just the total number of teams/participants. It has tipping points dependent on funding & revenues as well, and direct comparisons of the NFL & MLB & NBA business models to NHL hockey dismiss or at least diminish these key monetary factors. Extending those comparisons to low level minor pro & university & junior hockey stretch your argument even thinner. Hockey fans at those lower levels are keenly aware of these influences on the sports teams they follow, and we thus are more concerned about business decisions that can threaten a league's vitality. For major league sports fans, where the monies flow more freely, they come to expect their teams will spend & the competition will expand with no concerns that the billionaire owners will fail. Even though those fans have seen that happen more times than they care to remember.
 
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