Easily in the top 10. I'm struggling to think of a better top 3 defensemen.If the Leafs land AP, where do they rank in the NHL in terms of defence? Top 10?
Top 4:
Rielly Pietrangelo
Muzzin Holl
Bottom pair would be a combo of Dermott Sandin Liljegren Lehtonen.
Holl is the weak link in the top 4 and needs to be moved to the bottom pair.If the Leafs land AP, where do they rank in the NHL in terms of defence? Top 10?
Top 4:
Rielly Pietrangelo
Muzzin Holl
Bottom pair would be a combo of Dermott Sandin Liljegren Lehtonen.
I second this.Holl is the weak link in the top 4 and needs to be moved to the bottom pair.
Josi-Ekholm-Ellis is better, but I'd take Dermott-Holl-Lehtonen over Fabbro-Tinordi-Weber. Hedman-McDonagh-Sergachev is up there too but that's a lot closer, and again I'd prefer the Leafs' bottom 3 defensemenEasily in the top 10. I'm struggling to think of a better top 3 defensemen.
Holl is the weak link in the top 4 and needs to be moved to the bottom pair.
Holl is the weak link in the top 4 and needs to be moved to the bottom pair.
Holl is a fine #4 d man. Get Petra and the top 4 is really strong.I would hope someone already in the system is better than Holl ... otherwise Leafs really don't have a solid top 4 on defense.
Holl shouldn't be on the 2nd. pairing of a good team.
Holl is the weak link in the top 4 and needs to be moved to the bottom pair.
Holl was on the 2nd pairing of a good team. the Leafs were 8th in the league by points percentage and 5th in ROW under Keefe with Holl getting 2nd pair minutesI would hope someone already in the system is better than Holl ... otherwise Leafs really don't have a solid top 4 on defense.
Holl shouldn't be on the 2nd. pairing of a good team.
Holl is the weak link in the top 4 and needs to be moved to the bottom pair.
How could Holl be the weak link? He thinks he's Bobby Orr and makes those pinches at times...
Is Petro going to play 40 min a game? Last time I checked we are missing a 1st and 2nd line RD.
Our 3rd and 4th lines are hot garbage.
We'd be better off with 2 very good defenders than on elite defenders
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Tanev
Dermott-Holl
IMO is better than
Rielly-Petro
Muzzing-Holl
Dermott-???
You might pay a few dollars more for Tanev/Brodie than Petro alone. Petro gets hurt you are left with a shitty D. Tanev gets hurt you still have Brodie.
The idea that we wouldn't invest in a 25 minute franchise defenseman because of a 3rd and 4th line is absurd. 3 guys playing on a third line will play about 10 minutes each if they're good which is barely more than the elite minutes Petro would bring.
Hal Gill was at best a 3rd pairing.I'm not sure why you've put a question mark beside Dermott on the third pairing when we all know that Sandin, Liljegren and Lehtonen are signed at under a million dollars.
There are 120 minutes of blueline play in every hockey game. Pietrangelo and Rielly will eat up between 24-25 minutes, and Muzzin and Holl will each eat up about 22 and 18 minutes each. That covers 90 minutes of play so you just need two guys who can play 15 minutes each. Dermott is one of them, and the other you can audition.
The idea that we wouldn't invest in a 25 minute franchise defenseman because of a 3rd and 4th line is absurd. 3 guys playing on a third line will play about 10 minutes each if they're good which is barely more than the elite minutes Petro would bring.
If we look at the way Tampa has stocked certain portions of their roster with dumpster dives, I'm not concerned about the loss in depth at all.
As far as Brodie and Tanev are concerned? That's like investing in Kubina and Gill over Chara all over again.
Hal Gill was at best a 3rd pairing.
Kubina was not a problem, the entire team was heading into the tank.
Is Petro going to play 40 min a game? Last time I checked we are missing a 1st and 2nd line RD.
Our 3rd and 4th lines are hot garbage.
We'd be better off with 2 very good defenders than on elite defenders
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Tanev
Dermott-Holl
IMO is better than
Rielly-Petro
Muzzing-Holl
Dermott-???
You might pay a few dollars more for Tanev/Brodie than Petro alone. Petro gets hurt you are left with a shitty D. Tanev gets hurt you still have Brodie.
I'm not sure why you've put a question mark beside Dermott on the third pairing when we all know that Sandin, Liljegren and Lehtonen are signed at under a million dollars.
There are 120 minutes of blueline play in every hockey game. Pietrangelo and Rielly will eat up between 24-25 minutes, and Muzzin and Holl will each eat up about 22 and 18 minutes each. That covers 90 minutes of play so you just need two guys who can play 15 minutes each. Dermott is one of them, and the other you can audition.
The idea that we wouldn't invest in a 25 minute franchise defenseman because of a 3rd and 4th line is absurd. 3 guys playing on a third line will play about 10 minutes each if they're good which is barely more than the elite minutes Petro would bring.
If we look at the way Tampa has stocked certain portions of their roster with dumpster dives, I'm not concerned about the loss in depth at all.
As far as Brodie and Tanev are concerned? That's like investing in Kubina and Gill over Chara all over again.
Moves the puck well and is an even better skater--he is fast and agile. Has intriguing offensive ability. Can run the power play and jump up into the rush. Is capable of logging huge amounts of ice time. Could stand to get physically stronger in order to win even more battles at the NHL level, since he is a tad undersized. Also, he has a tendency to occasionally drift and lose concentration when in the game. |
Excellent, big-minute defenseman. |
Moves the puck well and owns solid overall ability from the back end. Defends his position with aplomb. Is very mobile and usually makes the safe, smart play with the puck. Could stand to fill out his lanky frame to maximize output in the NHL. Lacks a physical edge to his game, which limits his overall shutdown ability. Is not a big point producer. |
Quality, mobile puck-moving defenseman. |
What's going to happen to Sandin/Liljegren/Lehtonen in your first example?
Two of those guys need minutes to develop, which can easily happen in a sheltered role with Rielly, Petro, Muzzin taking all of the difficult minutes.
Leafs have always done things the wrong way when developing defensive prospects.
1) They push them into impossible roles such as the first pairing
OR
2) They simply don't include them and keep signing UFAs leaving them with no spots
It's important to have two open spots and let Dermott, Liljegren, Sandin, and Lehtonen fight over them. While the other two become depth pieces for injury.
Yeah, your memory might be a bit short but do you recall what our bottom 3 lines did in the qualifying round? Remember how they were so effective the coach felt his only way to win was to put our top 2 centers and RW on one line and play the rest of the forwards less.
You keep binging up Chara like you think you have some kind of point, which you don't. You do get that Chara has had the fortune of playing with a well balanced team, (are the Leafs well balanced?) with elite goaltending, (do we have elite goal tending?) over his tenure? You do get the the Bruins have been able to balance their line up right because of smart contracts? Who is our Bergeron? You do get that Boston doesn't have 51% of their cap tied up in 4 players, which is what we would have at a minimum if we sign Petro. Yu do get that if Petro signed here our team would have zero balance, zero elite goaltending after Andy leaves and zero chance that the Leafs win the cup in the next 5 years? So with the exception of Chara and AP both headed to the HOF, there is nothing similar in the situation between Toronto and Boston
So we dumped Kappy, 20 goals. To fit AP in we have to dump salary, lets say its Nylander. that's 30 goals. Your telling me that AP is going to replace 50 goals or suppress 50 goals? So now we got who playing RW with Matthews? Malgin? Bracco? Rodrigues? Cause that who our top 3 RW are who have NHL experience. Tell me does it make sense to invest almost $12 million into a player then give him AHL talent to play with? If you want to guarantee Matthews is gone when the contract runs out, saddle him with a LW and RW who are better off in the AHL
So when we sign AP to a contract around $10 mil, how much is Rielly worth? Cause you know he's coming with the Brinks trucks backing up looking for a deal in the 7 to 8 mil range.
IIRC Brodie played with Gio in his Norris year. Tanev is an incredible defender, maybe a little injury prone. Their scouting reports sound pretty awesome TBH.
At the end of the day if there was no cap, absolutely, AP is my go to guy 100 out of 100 times, but when you live on a budget you can't just spend like a drunken sailor.
Just because Tampa is competent in building a team, does not mean Toronto has equal compentcy. You like to find these false equivalencies like the Chara example and the Tampa one and then think because its was done once, that is easily transferable to Toronto, life does not work that way. Let me try it, you know since Tampa can find bargains , Ottawa can too. Because Toronto finished last and drafted Matthews... NYR is going to draft a player = to Matthews this year too. Because NYR signed an elite shooter in Panarin, Minny is going to sign one this year.
Brodie (20:27 last year)
SCOUTING REPORT
Tanev (19:32 last year)[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Moves the puck well and is an even better skater--he is fast and agile. Has intriguing offensive ability. Can run the power play and jump up into the rush. Is capable of logging huge amounts of ice time. Could stand to get physically stronger in order to win even more battles at the NHL level, since he is a tad undersized. Also, he has a tendency to occasionally drift and lose concentration when in the game. Excellent, big-minute defenseman.
SCOUTING REPORT
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Moves the puck well and owns solid overall ability from the back end. Defends his position with aplomb. Is very mobile and usually makes the safe, smart play with the puck. Could stand to fill out his lanky frame to maximize output in the NHL. Lacks a physical edge to his game, which limits his overall shutdown ability. Is not a big point producer. Quality, mobile puck-moving defenseman.
Hal Gill was at best a 3rd pairing.
Kubina was not a problem, the entire team was heading into the tank.