Will Ovechkins greatness surpass Crosby???

[DearDiary]

Oh so you're not thinking at all, then.

Capitals this season: 2.76 GF/G
Last season: 3.29 GF/G

I didn't say it was as good as last year, I'm just not making it sound like some prolonged slide nobody's willing to admit has been evident for some time when he was one of the team's best even strength producers last year, and had one of the team's best goal differentials for forwards to boot. No shit he's not single-handedly fixing the team's problems at his age, it doesn't mean he's instantly one of them.

Wouldn't expect you to bother looking into that but nobody with an eye on the Capitals is even wondering if Ovechkin is cooked. In fact, when you watch anything but the stat sheets it's pretty clear that Carlson is the one shoveling goals into his own net right now and making it impossible for anyone he shares the ice with to do much of anything.

And selling that he's not still easily the team's best PP option is just not happening. That's a desperate joke.

When other teams have such injuries, their best players are played harder to cover up the teams deficiencies. Instead the Caps have their worst players put up against players far above them so Ovechkin can face easier competition and only 10 defensive zone starts. If he hasn't declined, why has his ES production fallen so low despite being given every opportunity to score by his coach?

 

[HTFN]

When other teams have such injuries, their best players are played harder to cover up the teams deficiencies. Instead the Caps have their worst players put up against players far above them so Ovechkin can face easier competition and only 10 defensive zone starts. If he hasn't declined, why has his ES production fallen so low despite being given every opportunity to score by his coach?

The f***? Read an entire post. John Carlson is giving away goals left right and center, it literally doesn't matter how competent Ovechkin is right now in Washington.

His even strength production shares are still largely enough to offset what he's giving away defensively and then some, and you can check Capitals GDTs this year for the production graphs because somebody's posting them regularly.

The Capitals being systematically terrible and asking Ovechkin to be 25 again instead of 37 isn't on him, but he's still going a point per game right now. I get that you really want to seize the moment but fabrication isn't doing you any favors and a lot of what you're posting is just "hope so"

 

[DearDiary]

The f***? Read an entire post. John Carlson is giving away goals left right and center, it literally doesn't matter how competent Ovechkin is right now in Washington.

His even strength production shares are still largely enough to offset what he's giving away defensively and then some, and you can check Capitals GDTs this year for the production graphs because somebody's posting them regularly.

The Capitals being systematically terrible and asking Ovechkin to be 25 again instead of 37 isn't on him, but he's still going a point per game right now. I get that you really want to seize the moment but fabrication isn't doing you any favors and a lot of what you're posting is just "hope so"

What exactly have I fabricated? The facts show that he's being sheltered but still putting up lower numbers at ES despite being put in positions to succeed.

 

[NORiculous]

I don't think you realize how stupid that sounds when his ES production was as good as it was just last year. The team sucks, half of it is hurt, and frankly Laviolette is inadequate. The entire team's goals per game is way down compared to last year and somehow Ovechkin is still the superhero option because he's just that much better than the rest of them.

Nobody's sacrificing shit for an option that keeps working and this is a real desperate slant.

I’d argue that the team sucks that much because they need to compensate for OV 5on5 suckyness. He is still great on the PP though.

At this point it would be better for the team if OV would mostly play the PP.

I’d guess that some teammates will eventually get tired of this (OV being sheltered to hit the record), making the team even less competitive.

it literally doesn't matter how competent Ovechkin is right now in Washington

Yes it does. When a player is sheltered, everyone else needs to compensate.

 

[NORiculous]

Did he? Seems like he was pretty insane in his 20s and just had a lull around 30 lol

Yes that is why I said it was not 100% accurate but that is nevertheless how it felt.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I don't think you realize how stupid that sounds when his ES production was as good as it was just last year. The team sucks, half of it is hurt, and frankly Laviolette is inadequate. The entire team's goals per game is way down compared to last year and somehow Ovechkin is still the superhero option because he's just that much better than the rest of them.

Nobody's sacrificing shit for an option that keeps working and this is a real desperate slant.

It's truly astonishing you actually think ovechkin plays good hockey lmfao. Does anybody actually watch this f***ing guy play lol. The guy is terrible

 

[TeeTee]

The people that do not watch hockey will probably think Ovi is better than Crosby because of the goals record. The people that watch hockey, specifically the last dozen years, will have Crosby far ahead. Sid is a dominant player on the ice at all times. When Ovi is not scoring goals, he has no real impact on the game. His hitting, seen by some as an asset, is a liability at crucial times in the game. He plays a very individual game and, frankly, is not that intelligent of a player.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You'd have to assume Crosby's secondary assists were just as valuable as Ovechkin's goals for that to be the case.

This has always been such a weird argument. Even if we were to conclude that secondary assists were completely worthless, Crosby outproduces Ovechkin 0.97 to 0.91 in primary points per game anyway.

 

[Midnight Judges]

no one has ever had as many consecutive ppg+ seasons as crosby

Indeed, not even the real Sidney Crosby has as many legitimate consecutive PPG seasons as your imaginary Crosby does - who achieves a per-game stat by playing half, two-thirds, and quarter seasons.

 

[wetcoast]

Imagine thinking Hank Aaron was the greatest player ever because he finished 1st all time in one stat.

And not a player who was actually better.

Only HF boards.

The understanding of the game here is like fantasy football.

Pretty much this and too many people either can't or won't understand the difference between fantasy NHL and the real NHL.

Wild. Sid must have the record for most scoring titles, then right? Like Ovechkin has the record for most goal titles?

So many posts later after saying that you understand what PPG means and still posting otherwise eh?

 

[Midnight Judges]

It's truly astonishing you actually think ovechkin plays good hockey lmfao. Does anybody actually watch this f***ing guy play lol. The guy is terrible

So according to you, Crosby got out-pointed, out-hardwared, and out-goaled by 50% through the 17 best years of his career by a player who is terrible.

What does that make Crosby? AHL caliber or beer league?

 

[Randyne]

It's truly astonishing you actually think ovechkin plays good hockey lmfao. Does anybody actually watch this f***ing guy play lol. The guy is terrible

what a hater wow
Ovechkin has 11 1st star of the month, Sid has 6

 

[pi314]

I don't think people here realize how far Ovechkin has declined. He is invisible 5on5 despite getting 91% offensive starts and playing against easy competition. The team is doing everything they can to get him scoring opportunities and all he's doing is his standing around and shooting on the PP routine.

Yes his powerplay scoring is productive, but people also don't consider how much his teamates sacrifice for that. When 1 of your teamates just floats around in the middle of the ice, that means the other 4 guys need to scramble around and forecheck much harder. He doesn't make his teamates better, he just has them working harder to help him.

Yep. I've always said the kind of player who loses games 8-6 will put up better stats than the kind of player who wins games 2-1.

Stats only tell part of the story.

Ovechkin has played almost 20+ years on a first place team and still hasn't cracked +100.

That's some special kind of shit on defense.

He's dangerous at both ends of the ice.

He's closer to Brett Hull in terms of greatness than Sidney Crosby.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

So according to you, Crosby got out-pointed, out-hardwared, and out-goaled by 50% through the 17 best years of his career by a player who is terrible.

What does that make Crosby? AHL caliber or beer league?

Ovechkin was comparable to prime crosby for 3 years. Since then he has hit 90 points once
N that was exactly 90 points. Please.

 

[norrisnick]

Yep. I've always said the kind of player who loses games 8-6 will put up better stats than the kind of player who wins games 2-1.

Stats only tell part of the story.

Ovechkin has played almost 20+ years on a first place team and still hasn't cracked +100.

That's some special kind of shit on defense.

He's dangerous at both ends of the ice.

He's closer to Brett Hull in terms of greatness than Sidney Crosby.

For their careers:

Ovechkin is on the ice for 1.58 goals for per game (2062 in 1299) and 0.88 goals against per game (1148 in 1299)

Crosby is on the ice for 1.65 goals for per game (1863 in 1132) and 0.88 goals against per game (993 in 1132)

In that time frame the Caps scored 3.07 GPG and gave up 2.82 GPG and the Pens scored 3.13 GPG and gave up 2.78 GPG

But yes, the on ice impact is ridiculously different...

 

[filinski77]

The fact that Ovechkin is being deployed like a Sheltered PP specialist annoys me because I wanted him to score goals in all situations so he would be remembered as a great hockey player that could score anytime, anyplace and/or in any condition.

That is just not the case anymore and to me that makes him a less great player and because he is offered the opportunity to score without have the same conditions as everyone else, he is unfortunately less legendary in my eye.

Yet, Ovechkin still leads his team in even strength goals, and is 2nd place amongst their forwards in even strength assists.

Screw him for also being good on the Powerplay.

 

[DearDiary]

Yet, Ovechkin still leads his team in even strength goals, and is 2nd place amongst their forwards in even strength assists.

Screw him for also being good on the Powerplay.

Excluding the powerplay

Tied with Sheary for 1st in goals
Tied 2nd in forward assists with Strome, 3rd overall on the team behind Kuznetsov and Jensen

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Yet, Ovechkin still leads his team in even strength goals, and is 2nd place amongst their forwards in even strength assists.

Screw him for also being good on the Powerplay.

That's all fine and dandy. The last time ovechkin was top 10 in points was 14-15. That was age 29.. from age 25 to 37 he finished top 10 in scoring only 4 times 7,3,8,4 In contrast to crosby ages 25 to 35. 3,1,3,3,2,10,5,10. And a few of those he was 1st in ppg. Post 09-10 crosby has been a completely different level of player. Ovechkin was better slightly the first few years but then he's been left behind

 

[max21]

It's truly astonishing you actually think ovechkin plays good hockey lmfao. Does anybody actually watch this f***ing guy play lol. The guy is terrible

Did you just called a guy that’s about to hit 800 goals terrible at hockey hahaha holy f***

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Did you just called a guy that’s about to hit 800 goals terrible at hockey hahaha holy f***

As in right now. Cool he can shoot. Besides that nothing and the caps are suffering

 

[crosby87]

Indeed, not even the real Sidney Crosby has as many legitimate consecutive PPG seasons as your imaginary Crosby does - who achieves a per-game stat by playing half, two-thirds, and quarter seasons.

At least you've proved to me that you're mostly a troll with this post

 

[Midnight Judges]

At least you've proved to me that you're mostly a troll with this post

In MLB, a player cannot win a batting title unless they've had 502 plate appearances. That's approximately 70% of what a top 10 player has. That's because achieving a higher average is easier to do over the course of a smaller sample size.

If the NHL had a PPG title, 20 games wouldn't qualify, nor should 41 or 53. 57 (70%) may be a reasonable threshold.

For these purposes you can argue that the points accumulated in 2008 and 2011 reach the threshold of a PPG for the minimum games played. So that works. But you can't make the case for a 37 point season. It simply doesn't qualify under any reasonable metric.

 

[filinski77]

That's all fine and dandy. The last time ovechkin was top 10 in points was 14-15. That was age 29.. from age 25 to 37 he finished top 10 in scoring only 4 times 7,3,8,4 In contrast to crosby ages 25 to 35. 3,1,3,3,2,10,5,10. And a few of those he was 1st in ppg. Post 09-10 crosby has been a completely different level of player. Ovechkin was better slightly the first few years but then he's been left behind

Shoutout for you for responding to me with an argument that is completely irrelevant to anything I said, or that I responded to. Business as usual.

 

[filinski77]

Excluding the powerplay

Tied with Sheary for 1st in goals
Tied 2nd in forward assists with Strome, 3rd overall on the team behind Kuznetsov and Jensen

So nothing I said was incorrect?

You’re missing the entire point. This caps team right now is terrible. Ovechkin is the only offensive weapon they have.

According to NHL.com, Capitals EV goals leaders:
Ovechkin = 7
Sheary = 6
Mantha = 5
Carlson = 4
Protas = 3

Carlson is a D, Sheary plays a lot with Ovi. So it’s literally only Mantha who’s even remotely close. Should the Caps have Ovechkin giving up EV shifts to Protas? It’s a ridiculous argument, that lacks all context.

 

[Toby91ca]

In MLB, a player cannot win a batting title unless they've had 502 plate appearances. That's approximately 70% of what a top 10 player has. That's because achieving a higher average is easier to do over the course of a smaller sample size.

If the NHL had a PPG title, 20 games wouldn't qualify, nor should 41 or 53. 57 (70%) may be a reasonable threshold.

For these purposes you can argue that the points accumulated in 2008 and 2011 reach the threshold of a PPG for the minimum games played. So that works. But you can't make the case for a 37 point season. It simply doesn't qualify under any reasonable metric.

Why are you taking about baseball and why are you talking about an NHL award that doesn’t exist and making your own rules that would apply?