Why they traded Hall (article)

Frank the Tank

The Godfather
Aug 15, 2005
15,916
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Chicago, IL
This isn't really about Hall as much as its about an org that had a lot of Gm's and coaches that would look down at current players. McT made this full knowledge with his treatment of Penner. Eakins enough said, Lowe with his castigation of Comrie.

Basically somewhere along this org became run by older grumpy guys who thought they were better than players and fans because of 5 rings. They even acknowledged the poison pen when they hired a complete outsider Krueger to change things (and the closest they ever came) but then fired him to hire the Pegdown smarmy Eakins who was hired to bootcamp the players into shape and get them in line. Eakins was viewed as some kind of tough guy by management. A guy that would really drill the players. Lets remember Quinn was hired for the same reason. Org wanted someone gruff that was just going to tell the players basically where to go.

A common thread runs through a lot of the hires and management practice and its that players are young kids that are looked down on. Again that management is better (look, we won cups) Its an assumption that Lowe, McT etc know better than the players. Hall existed through all this.

Oilers management scheme was classically "top down" It didn't involve player feedback, it was "this is what we're doing"

The height of stupidity was the Eakins TC in Jasper where they hired military and survivalist people to run Oilers bootcamp and even bringing the Oilers out into the wild and tasking them with survivalist skills, and cycling endurance in an exercise of team building. It had absolutely nothing to do with hockey and I mocked it mercilessly at the time. It was so inherently idiotic. Other teams were practicing hockey in TC, the Oilers were practicing how to start fires with wet wood and flints in the rain. Because, you know, that's more important training.

All Eakins and Ference wanted to do here is show that they could cycle harder and climb more stairs.

What's the solution then? (i.e., imagine you're named to Nicholson's role this off-season and tasked with a total restock of the management team)

Do you go with Cup winning coaches like Sutter or Quenneville who are tough, but more effective communicators? Or go young across the board with a player-friendly staff?

Also for arguments sake, how does the top-down approach work for a young team in Toronto under two iron-fisted leaders in Lamariello and Babcock?
 

McGoMcD

Registered User
Aug 14, 2005
15,688
668
Edmonton, AB
Anyone who thinks he meant to do that is an idiot. He was on the side of the bench, it just happened to fly back and hit Eakins. It's a little water. Boo freaking hoo. A hockey bench is a gross place, you have spit, sweat, blood, all over the place at various time, oh noez not a little water.

How come no one remembers that Hall was the ONLY Oiler who stood up for Eakins and tried to take a bullet for him in the press when he said "It's not the coach's fault, it's not on the coach".

It clearly wasn't on purpose, if I recall it make Eakins look like a tool that he made a big deal about it. I got a little water on my suit, time to freak out.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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It clearly wasn't on purpose, if I recall it make Eakins look like a tool that he made a big deal about it. I got a little water on my suit, time to freak out.

Exactly, if anything it showed immaturity on the part of the coach. It's a little water, jeez. You're not a freaking GQ model, no one cares about your hair and suit. Guys smash sticks on the bench all the time, I'd rather get hit by some water than flying shards of a stick.
 

Musashi

Registered User
May 23, 2012
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Alberta
When did Taylor Hall not work out here? He was the best player on the team for years, and one of the premier offensive drivers in the whole league. Trading him was a huge mistake, Chiarelli filled one hole by creating a bigger one. One that still hasn't been filled.

Hall was never the problem he was part of the solution.

I would never say that Taylor did not work on any NHL team but in the 32 games when McDavid returned, his game left a lot to be desired.

That's a terribly small sample but unfortunately those games made up over 70% of the sample we got to see in what our team looked like with McDavid in the lineup.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
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I would never say that Taylor did not work on any NHL team but in the 32 games when McDavid returned, his game left a lot to be desired.

That's a terribly small sample but unfortunately those games made up over 70% of the sample we got to see in what our team looked like with McDavid in the lineup.

We can't ever buy a break as fans.

GM throws away an elite talent because of a 32 game stretch where his rookie line mate (Draisaitl) was gassed from playing too many games.

Yippie Oilers! Now we get to enjoy Lucic who is on the verge of 2 straight calendar months without a goal. How's THAT for a slump, last I checked that never happened with Hall.
 

PBandJ

If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
Jan 5, 2012
13,000
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Edmonton, Alberta
Once I saw this, I came to peace with the Hall trade.

If you're going to tune everyone in the org out and think you know better, then so be it. This confirms to me that the team tried to work with him and he wasn't having it. Glad he's happier in NJ. Hope they get swept.
 
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Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
43,660
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Why couldn't the Oilers do what Hynes and Shero did with their supposed 'tough love' talk?

All that this tells me is that the Oilers mismanaged yet another star player.
Pretty much this. Much to the gain of the Devils who got an elite first line scorer for a #3 defensive dman.

Oilers sure seem to like to ship players out rather than figure out what isn’t working and how to fix it. And then we get threads like this a couple years later saying “see! He had to go!”

No... we had to figure out how to make it work here.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
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What's the solution then? (i.e., imagine you're named to Nicholson's role this off-season and tasked with a total restock of the management team)

Do you go with Cup winning coaches like Sutter or Quenneville who are tough, but more effective communicators? Or go young across the board with a player-friendly staff?

Also for arguments sake, how does the top-down approach work for a young team in Toronto under two iron-fisted leaders in Lamariello and Babcock?

The Oilers in a sense had the solution. Twice. Renney, and later Krueger. These being two individuals that were quite completely immune from this org. Outside of it. Those were the right calls. However, the Org gave neither full reign and fired both. Inately K Lowe and MacT recognition that there own jobs could inevitably be on the line if there are individuals with better ability.

Tambellini was a classic scheme bad hire. Quinn another (because at that point he was a bit senile) The Oilers were hiring managers or coaches that would be no threat to their employment. That wouldn't proceed to take over the ship.

I have mixed feelings on the Nicholson hire because he had already been long standing working relationship with Lowe and MacT. He was not an outsider in that sense. Also my own impression is he's a hanger on. He's a career hockey professional, not necessarily someone with new ideas, who proceeded to hire two of his ilk, hangers on, a coach and manager that are more connections focused than new hockey knowledge focused.

We just replaced one tired and outdated management Scheme with another.

Krueger or Renney should have just been given the keys to the org. Run it. Everybody else should have stepped back.

ftr I don't agree with the Babcock method either. It tends to bring short term results. Ideal for a hip hip hooray Team Canada but not as much for ongoing. Most of Babcocks hockey success imo owed more to precap team dominance.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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Once I saw this, I came to peace with the Hall trade.

If you're going to tune everyone in the org out and think you know better, then so be it. This confirms to me that the team tried to work with him and he wasn't having it. Glad he's happier in NJ. Hope they get swept.

Amazing that this organization can't get through to Hall ... or Schultz ... or Eberle ... or Dubnyk

But by MAGIC, New Jersey can develop Hall in a 2 hour dinner whereas we couldn't in 5 years. Pittsburgh can magically turn Schultz around into a 30-50 point RD that's a key cog to two Stanley Cups. Eberle is right back to his career production in Long Island immediately. Dubnyk becomes a better starter than anyone on the Oilers after leaving here.



New Jersey must've had magical voodoo steak at that 2 hour dinner. Clearly.
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
46,862
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NYC
I'm sure Hall had somewhat of an attitude (ego) and was hard to handle but I have a very hard time putting the blame on an 18-23 year old kid. Instead of just handing him the keys to the franchise and giving him free reign to do whatever he wanted, the organization should have surrounded him with the stability and structure that he needed.
The constant shuffling of coaches, hiring the wrong coaches, little vet player support. That's all on the organization, not some kid that needed some guidance.

This is just a case of trying to justify a loss in value trade and this is coming from somebody who is ok with the trade but don't give me the BS that Hall was traded because of his attitude and his attitude was the reason why his value was lowered. No, the reason why his value was lowered was because his production the last 2 seasons somewhat declined (other GMs didn't know about internal attitude) and the reason why he was traded is because the Oilers needed a right shot D who can play on the top pairing if needed and Hall was the only "expendable" asset that could get that player. Plain and simple
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
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I see the media already trying to spin it's not Chia fault

Staples wants back in the dressing room?

I can't stress, enough, the importance of critical reading and starting with the titles which often hint at an angle. Note the titles being much different and denoting different things.

Next note that Staples took a source article, selectively quoted it, and proceeded to call it something else.

This is one reason why tertiary news is almost always bad sourcing. Go to the sources of information wherever you can. Thankfully the OP quoted both articles (kudos and I had also quoted the Jersey source article) so that the reader can look at both and decide which is the more accurate view.

Finally, Staples didn't of course interview Hall about this, the Jersey writer did. Who would you believe?
 
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PBandJ

If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
Jan 5, 2012
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Edmonton, Alberta
Amazing that this organization can't get through to Hall ... or Schultz ... or Eberle ... or Dubnyk

But by MAGIC, New Jersey can develop Hall in a 2 hour dinner whereas we couldn't in 5 years. Pittsburgh can magically turn Schultz around into a 30-50 point RD that's a key cog to two Stanley Cups. Eberle is right back to his career production in Long Island immediately. Dubnyk becomes a better starter than anyone on the Oilers after leaving here.



New Jersey must've had magical voodoo steak at that 2 hour dinner. Clearly.


These articles prove the Oilers tried to work with him, and he wasn't interested in it. Like I said, glad the trade and Shero ripping into him made him realize that attitude wouldn't leave him in the league for much longer. I hope they get swept and he never sniffs a Cup.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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Pretty much this. Much to the gain of the Devils who got an elite first line scorer for a #3 defensive dman.

Oilers sure seem to like to ship players out rather than figure out what isn’t working and how to fix it. And then we get threads like this a couple years later saying “see! He had to go!”

No... we had to figure out how to make it work here.
Hall, Eberle... How long before McDavid/RNH/Nurse join this group?
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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Don't worry guys. We just win the draft lottery another 3 or 4 times and get another 3 or 4 Connor McDavids who have no personality so we can't possibly screw them up and we'll be all good.
 

Little Fury

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
17,834
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Once I saw this, I came to peace with the Hall trade.

If you're going to tune everyone in the org out and think you know better, then so be it. This confirms to me that the team tried to work with him and he wasn't having it. Glad he's happier in NJ. Hope they get swept.

There's nothing in there to lead to that conclusion. Nothing.

And you know what? Who cares if that was the case? His on-ice results were miles ahead of anyone else's on the team. But it's typical of the Oilers and Chia (and a large swath of Oilers fans) to overvalue things that don't actually matter that much.

I don't care if a guy is an a**hole to his coaches or his teammates if he delivers on the ice. Hall did. The rest is noise.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,579
31,621
Calgary
These articles prove the Oilers tried to work with him, and he wasn't interested in it. Like I said, glad the trade and Shero ripping into him made him realize that attitude wouldn't leave him in the league for much longer. I hope they get swept and he never sniffs a Cup.
Do or do not, there is no try. Why can the Devils make it work but the Oilers can't?

The answer is because they're the most incompetent team of losers ever to disgrace the NHL. Never ever should the Oilers be given the benefit of the doubt because they don't deserve it.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,861
These articles prove the Oilers tried to work with him, and he wasn't interested in it. Like I said, glad the trade and Shero ripping into him made him realize that attitude wouldn't leave him in the league for much longer. I hope they get swept and he never sniffs a Cup.

"I hope Justin Schultz never touches a Cup"

"I hope Dubnyk implodes and is out of the league"

"I hope Eberle flames out and the Islanders never sniff playoffs"

Lovely attitudes around here. Maybe other franchises have their crap together when dealing with players and don't bail when the going gets a little rough. You ever consider that?

Instead of having bitter attitudes towards the players, maybe just maybe, it's time for the franchise to be questioned. What? New Jersey and Pittsburgh and Minnesota and NY Islanders all have some magical skills that the Oilers just couldn't possess?
 

North

Registered User
Jun 25, 2009
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Why couldn't the Oilers do what Hynes and Shero did with their supposed 'tough love' talk?

All that this tells me is that the Oilers mismanaged yet another star player.

Tom Renney did try to hold them accountable. Guess who ended up losing that battle.
 
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PBandJ

If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
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Edmonton, Alberta
Tom Renney did try to hold them accountable. Guess who ended up losing that battle.

Yup. Hall has tuned out anyone who tried to work with him up until now. That's on him. He's got it together now at least, but you can only speak to a brick wall so many times.
 

North

Registered User
Jun 25, 2009
15,697
13,298
There's nothing in there to lead to that conclusion. Nothing.

And you know what? Who cares if that was the case? His on-ice results were miles ahead of anyone else's on the team. But it's typical of the Oilers and Chia (and a large swath of Oilers fans) to overvalue things that don't actually matter that much.

I don't care if a guy is an a**hole to his coaches or his teammates if he delivers on the ice. Hall did. The rest is noise.

Part of delivering is being responsible defensively. He wasn't.
 

nabob

Big Daddy Kane
Aug 3, 2005
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"Just in Edmonton, I really didn’t want to talk to coaches. I didn’t really want to have dialogue with coaches. I just wanted to play. And a lot of guys are like that.”

I had a lot more respect for Hall before I read that quote. I have a feeling his BFF here was of the same attitude and that's why he is gone as well. Might be something to be said for 20 year old kids signing guaranteed $6M contracts as well. They're looking out for #1, and only #1.
 

Little Fury

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
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Him because management fired him.

Hmm, now what's the most common denominator in all these failures? Could it be.... management?

Yeah people seem to miss this part of the article:

"You don't want to start feeling sorry for yourself, but for the same time you have to take a look at it and say, 'Am I really the reason?'" Hall said about never making the postseason. "I don't think that. I've never thought that. I think I've played on some pretty bad hockey teams, if you want to put it bluntly. When you get drafted No. 1 overall, it comes with the territory for the first couple seasons. And then after that, it's just kind of like, 'OK, what are we doing here?'

Wouldn't shock me if expressed that very sentiment to management and their response was to trade him for peanuts for having the temerity to question their wisdom.
 

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