Why is Martin Brodeur not considered a top 10 player of all time?

[Doctor No]

Could be the 2009 game 7 loss to Carolina when he gave up two goals in the last 80 seconds of the game....The 2nd of which was very weak......

I doubt it. Roy's still looked at favorably despite the Statue of Liberty game.

God forbid if our careers are based on our worst efforts (games or posts).

 

[Michael Farkas]

If that is the answer to the riddle, this will really help Brodeur because it really hurts Hasek...

 

[quoipourquoi]

There's no way the Devils win any cups without Marty. I'd go as far to say that they likely wouldn't have won any cups even if you put any other goalie not named Roy or Hasek in the crease for them for those years.
(maybe Cujo gets them a cup)

I think you're selling Ed Belfour short. If I had to pick one playoff goaltender for 1995-2004, it's quite possibly him. Not saying they should roll the dice on Roman Turek, but they were talented enough to win a Stanley Cup with a different goaltender. Colorado and Dallas were still competitive after their goaltenders left, and 2001 New Jersey dragged Brodeur through his career lowlight to Game 7. Put Marty Turco on a 295 goal team with Stevens, Rafalski, and Niedermayer, and with the benefit of hindsight, I don't know that their chances get worse than they were with the way Brodeur actually played.

Not that we should focus on career lowlights, but you said "no way", and I disagree.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Brodeur

Simply no sizzle all steak, reliable classic 8 cylinder car that produced beyond expectations. Gordie Howe of goalies.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Hard to make an argument against that.

But I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that those Devils teams win without Brodeur. The first 2 Cup years Brodeur wasn't one of the top goalies during the regular season, so there were other goalies playing well. And from what I recall the Devils were usually the team in control during all 3 runs, so it wasn't like they needed to have many games stolen.

Honestly, I think he absolutely stole almost every series during the '94 run that gave them legitimacy and an opportunity to bring it to the next level.

One overlooked thing is that if Marty isn't there in '94, perhaps Stevens doesn't sign his $17m contract in July to stay with the Devils - a team he didn't want to be on at first blush.

I was there in person for the homeside of the whole '95 run and although the team looked like a machine when it got ahead and locked it down - it was Brodeur who was unbelievable.

The 2000 run was the Scott Stevens show.

The 2003 team really shutdown the ducks pretty well, and Marty had that one gaff that probably cost him the Conn Smythe - because 3 shutouts in the finals should probably get you that...

 

[Killion]

Simply no sizzle all steak, reliable classic 8 cylinder car that produced beyond expectations. Gordie Howe of goalies.

Yes, good analogy. Technically one of the best Ive ever seen. Was very quiet, efficient in his movements, always thinking ahead. Anyone who's ever played the position at a meaningful level, a player or Scout, Coach, GM, anyone really who's studied the position over several decades would not only recognize but deeply appreciate/respect the depths of his approach to the game. How he played things. Positioning. He'd obviously been beyond well schooled, pupil & professor, always learning, adapting... combined with the type of character you want in a goalie. Innate skills, of the kind you cant teach, born with. Ever consistent. A "Goalies Goalie" that one. Belfour in his prime another though clearly of a far more quixotic nature. Clinical approach to the game, position.

 

[Doctor No]

Honestly, I think he absolutely stole almost every series during the '94 run that gave them legitimacy and an opportunity to bring it to the next level.

Still one of my favorite series of all time was that Devils/Sabres matchup in 1994.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Still one of my favorite series of all time was that Devils/Sabres matchup in 1994.

I certainly agree. Watching Hasek and Brodeur go at it. People talk about the 0-0 game but the other games of that series were even more spectacular.

 

[GuineaPig]

I'd be hard pressed to think of a better goalie duel than that series.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Honestly, I think he absolutely stole almost every series during the '94 run that gave them legitimacy and an opportunity to bring it to the next level.

One overlooked thing is that if Marty isn't there in '94, perhaps Stevens doesn't sign his $17m contract in July to stay with the Devils - a team he didn't want to be on at first blush.

I was there in person for the homeside of the whole '95 run and although the team looked like a machine when it got ahead and locked it down - it was Brodeur who was unbelievable.

The 2000 run was the Scott Stevens show.

The 2003 team really shutdown the ducks pretty well, and Marty had that one gaff that probably cost him the Conn Smythe - because 3 shutouts in the finals should probably get you that...

Chris Terreri was 3-0 against the Bruins in round 2 of 1994 playoffs. Brodeur was 1-2, losing the first 2 games. So, probably didn't steal that one.

 

[Doctor No]

Chris Terreri was 3-0 against the Bruins in round 2 of 1994 playoffs. Brodeur was 1-2, losing the first 2 games. So, probably didn't steal that one.

Yeah, he had a tough overtime loss in Game Two against Boston:

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/logs/NJD1993.html

Solidly average/above average the rest of the way.

EDIT: I never noticed it before, but notice what a "loss soaker" Peter Sidorkiewicz was. Three times Devils starters were pulled after being lousy (including Terreri going 0-for-3 on shots faced against the Kings), but the Devils eventually scored enough that Peter got the loss all three times.

 

[Voight]

I think you're selling Ed Belfour short. If I had to pick one playoff goaltender for 1995-2004, it's quite possibly him. Not saying they should roll the dice on Roman Turek, but they were talented enough to win a Stanley Cup with a different goaltender. Colorado and Dallas were still competitive after their goaltenders left, and 2001 New Jersey dragged Brodeur through his career lowlight to Game 7. Put Marty Turco on a 295 goal team with Stevens, Rafalski, and Niedermayer, and with the benefit of hindsight, I don't know that their chances get worse than they were with the way Brodeur actually played.

Not that we should focus on career lowlights, but you said "no way", and I disagree.

Agreed... a lot of people forget how dominant Belfour was in the SC runs of 99 and '00 along with the WCF run in 1998...

1998 - 10-7, 1 SO, 1.79GAA .928 SV%
1999 - 16-7, 3 SO, 1.67GAA .935 SV%
2000 - 14-9, 4 SO 1.87GAA .931 SV%

I doubt it. Roy's still looked at favorably despite the Statue of Liberty game.

God forbid if our careers are based on our worst efforts (games or posts).

.... never forget....

 

[Rhiessan71]

Agreed... a lot of people forget how dominant Belfour was in the SC runs of 99 and '00 along with the WCF run in 1998...

1998 - 10-7, 1 SO, 1.79GAA .928 SV%
1999 - 16-7, 3 SO, 1.67GAA .935 SV%
2000 - 14-9, 4 SO 1.87GAA .931 SV%



.... never forget....

The reason why the "Statue of Liberty" game can be chalked up so easily is quite simple really...the only reason Colorado was even playing that game was because of Roy.
Despite the Wings completely dominating the Av's throughout the series, Colorado somehow went in game 6 with a 3-2 series lead.
With the way the Wings were playing and with Hasek in net, that series should've been over in 5, maybe even 4 but there they were facing elimination in game 6.
Roy was by far the biggest reason for that and EVERYONE knew it.

Also kinda hard to blame Roy when the Av's didn't score a single goal in that game or game 7.

 

[cole von cole]

Marty isn't a top 10 player because of people like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Roy, Richard (the older one), Shore, Beliveau, Bourque, Plante, Sawchuk, Hasek, and Hall.

 

[Michael Farkas]

That's a lot of goalies for none to be Brodeur...namely, Sawchuk...that list gives Brodeur a pretty good claim at the title...