Why is Graves' slash on Lemieux in 92 defended so much?

[Captain Monglobster]

It's surprising that no one's even mentioned the regular business of defensemen crosschecking the **** out of any opposition player crashing their crease. Players would be flattened all night long without a referee raising his hand.

One of the things I miss the most. Front of the net battles were legendary you needed at least one guy like Beuk on your team to clear the crease. Not to mention goalies like Belfour would spear you right in the onions if they had to. Those were the trenches.

 

[nyrage]

When it happened I thought Mario was embellishing it for a penalty. He was always a crybaby and Graves was a clean, albeit tough player. Clearly by today's standards it looks bad. Back then, it was more commonplace.

 

[n8]

can someone remind me why Messier was scratched? He wasn't exactly Brad Richards that season.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

The way the game was approached then by fans, players, everybody was so different. IMO it's a very positive change; you have to attribute some of it to Bettman even though I'm Captain Pro-Player. This was "just" a bad slash but with stuff like the Hunter-on-Turgeon thing, the guy would be hounded out of the league now. I'm still shocked every time I watch that.

 

[eco's bones]

If that had been almost anyone else there would have been no suspension.

Part of the problem was the media jumped all over it. Tons of non-hockey sportswriters getting on their high horse letting the world know why hockey was inferior to other sports partly to cover up their own ignorance of and disinterest for the game. The NHL had a media black eye. They had to do something. There's nothing I dislike more than casual fans blah-blah-blahing the same ********* they've been fed by disinterested journalist hacks.

I looked at the NY Times account of that and Roger Neilson says himself that Graves swatting at an opponents hands is exactly what he was supposed to do and par for the course around the league. It was going on all the time then--every single game and it still goes on--sometimes called and sometimes not.

I can't remember a single other time a player has been suspended for slashing another player on the hands.

 

[The Undertaker]

Eco you are correct Mario was impossible to like outside of Pitts..He might have started whining in the league...He went down like he was shot if you bumped him...He was a prima donna with a world of talent and a trunk full of arrogance

Sounds like his current team takes after him quite well

 

[surf]

Messier was never scratched he was either suspended for a game or injured..Never ever scratched

can someone remind me why Messier was scratched? He wasn't exactly Brad Richards that season.

 

[nikonsniper*]

Sounds like his current team takes after him quite well

Its definitely a culture that has developed with that team.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

No, it wasn't nasty. It was a common play on the PK. Hit the gloves to get the player to drop his stick. Graves just happened to catch Mario where there was no padding. Mario had already had the reputation of being a diver, while Graves not yet cemented himself as the nicest player in the game yet. Mario was either back for Game 6, or the 1st game of the Conference Finals. However, you would have thought Graves attempted to murder Mario, given the reaction of Pens fans and media, (as well as Jiggs McDonald)

Exactly. It was an accident and the media went off the deep end ranting about what a goon Graves was and how Lemieux was going to be out for the rest of the playoffs and destroy whatever chance the Pens had to repeat as Stanley Cup champions.

Don't think he played the rest of that series, but he looked just fine in the finals.

 

[Callagraves]

Eco you are correct Mario was impossible to like outside of Pitts..He might have started whining in the league...He went down like he was shot if you bumped him...He was a prima donna with a world of talent and a trunk full of arrogance

This.... is actually pretty accurate. He likes to go on about how less talented players are allowed to prevent the superstars of the league create highlight reel plays every 5 minutes (because, you know, Mario and defense).

That guy can't open his mouth without sounding entitled.

 

[Cake or Death]

What am I missing?

Mario is a whiny ass ***** and stuff like that was a lot more common back then. Mike Bossy lost many seasons of his career to hacks and cross checks. Different times. And Mario was a *****

 

[Clausewitz]

Looked to me like an obvious intent to injure. Dirty play without question.

 

[Clausewitz]

This.... is actually pretty accurate. He likes to go on about how less talented players are allowed to prevent the superstars of the league create highlight reel plays every 5 minutes (because, you know, Mario and defense).

That guy can't open his mouth without sounding entitled.

I remember Eddie Olczyk saying once saying to Doc on an NBC broadcast, after acknowledging that Crosby complains to often, "You know who else complained a lot? The Great One." Superstars aren't dumb. Their status gives them leverage with the refs. Might as well use it -- even if doing so isn't ethical. Still, going back to my Florida days, I don't remember having seen Pavel Bure (or Valeri Bure for that matter) complain nearly as much as Crosby or Mario. Actually, now that I think about it, it seems North American players complain a lot more to the refs than Europeans do. Maybe it's the language barrier; who knows. Just an observation. Funny that euros are considered "soft."

 

[TheTakedown]

The Penguins got Graves suspended for the rest of the series and were promised to have a lottery rigged 13 years later.

Let's get over it.

asking in all seriousness.

How was it rigged?

 

[Ghost of jas]

can someone remind me why Messier was scratched? He wasn't exactly Brad Richards that season.

Messier had back spasms flare up.

 

[chosen]

Fans in this thread who think it was not wrong on the part of Graves and who use the excuse of it was Pitt are the ones who would squeal loudest if it happened to a Ranger.

Fans who lust for that hockey are not hockey fans, even though they believe they are.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Sure why not chosen--except if Mario had done it to Graves, he would have gotten a two minute penalty and nothing more.

 

[eco's bones]

Sure why not chosen--except if Mario had done it to Graves, he would have gotten a two minute penalty and nothing more.

Maybe not even that.

 

[True Blue]

Maybe not even that.

definitely not even that. They same way that Cindy does not get called when she slew foots.

Maryo was a great player. No doubt about that. One of the greatest of all time. However, she was quite possibly the whinest to ever lace up the skates. And did not believe that the same rules should apply to her. She was protected by the referees more than any other players in history.

 

[JerseyRangers*]

If that had been almost anyone else there would have been no suspension.

Part of the problem was the media jumped all over it. Tons of non-hockey sportswriters getting on their high horse letting the world know why hockey was inferior to other sports partly to cover up their own ignorance of and disinterest for the game. The NHL had a media black eye. They had to do something. There's nothing I dislike more than casual fans blah-blah-blahing the same ********* they've been fed by disinterested journalist hacks.

I looked at the NY Times account of that and Roger Neilson says himself that Graves swatting at an opponents hands is exactly what he was supposed to do and par for the course around the league. It was going on all the time then--every single game and it still goes on--sometimes called and sometimes not.

I can't remember a single other time a player has been suspended for slashing another player on the hands.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it in this thread and many casual fans don't remember. That same nite that Graves slashed Lemiuex in the hands, Shayne Corson slashed Raymond Bourque in the hands. Bourque also ended up with a broken hand and coincidently missed the same exact number of games Maryo did. Corson, who had a history of suspensions and dirty play, wasn't suspended nor penalized.

When asked about the incident later that summer Bourque basically stated "thats hockey - its part of the game." Bourque will always be remembered as a class act - when he finally won the Cup most fans were happy for him. Outside of Pissburgh and maybe Quebec Maryo is remembers as a whining biatch! All the posters here who think Graves did something terrible probably never watched hockey back in the 70's and 80's. Too bad for them.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it in this thread and many casual fans don't remember. That same nite that Graves slashed Lemiuex in the hands, Shayne Corson slashed Raymond Bourque in the hands. Bourque also ended up with a broken hand and coincidently missed the same exact number of games Maryo did. Corson, who had a history of suspensions and dirty play, wasn't suspended nor penalized.

When asked about the incident later that summer Bourque basically stated "thats hockey - its part of the game." Bourque will always be remembered as a class act - when he finally won the Cup most fans were happy for him. Outside of Pissburgh and maybe Quebec Maryo is remembers as a whining biatch! All the posters here who think Graves did something terrible probably never watched hockey back in the 70's and 80's. Too bad for them.

A very good point and one that all the Mario Lemieux lovers on this thread should keep in mind.

Bourque was a class act. The best defenseman of his era IMO. He played the game the right way. He didn't look for favors. I remember he was always respectful of Brian Leetch even when Harry Sinden was running him down. He was one of the main reasons why I stopped hating the Bruins. Terry O'Reilly and Rick Middleton were others.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

What Graves did in 1992 is no different than what Hunter and Antoski tried to do with Messier in 1994 and what Podein and Klatt tried to do to Leetch in 1997.

You target the stars. Anyone who remembers the 1992 Pens series will recall that Neilson tried to goon it up and it backfired big time -- Francis goal or no Francis goal.

The Pens had a lot of size that year, especially on their blue line. Guys like Grant Jennings (a goon), Roberts and Paek and Kjell stayed out of ther box. The Rangers were outsmarted.

No surprise. Scotty Bowman was their coach because Badger Bob Johnson had cancer. Best coach of all time

 

[chosen]

Please, even today guys constantly wack each other with sticks to dislodge the puck. TIme and time again the stick blade makes contact with forearms, elbows, and wrists. Twenty years ago it was even worse.

Taken in the context of play in the 80's this was acceptable, dirty or not. If it makes you feel better to call it a dirty play so be it. Twenty years ago players hit other players up high and were admired for it. Today its called a dirty hit. Don't bring it into todays world and pretend you are shocked about it.

As to the theard; isn't it kinda like me starting a thread about how the Steven's hit on Lindros was dirty. Main point of contact was the head and today he would be suspended. Back then it was a great hit. See my point????

Stevens' hits were legal but they were most definitely dirty. A hit can be legal and dirty. See the point?

 

[chosen]

Eco you are correct Mario was impossible to like outside of Pitts..He might have started whining in the league...He went down like he was shot if you bumped him...He was a prima donna with a world of talent and a trunk full of arrogance

Mario did not start whining. Existed for many years before that. Espo immediately pops to mind.

 

[chosen]

Sure why not chosen--except if Mario had done it to Graves, he would have gotten a two minute penalty and nothing more.

Every superstar in hockey and basketball gets preferential treatment. Fact of life. Wrong, but fact.