Why exactly do you think Malkin is an underrated as he is?

[ColePens]

I like the research you did for the ppg, but I just caution that we don't simple look at this based on numbers. There is so much more to the game.

 

[Al Smith]

Great stats. especially "era adjusted". I don't know how you decide who is "better". You can't just look at points, otherwise you take snipers like Bossy, Hull, Shanahan, and Robitaille (and maybe add Laine to that list someday) out of the equation. You can't focus on playoff performance, especially team playoff victories, cause then you say a guy like Dionne wasn't "better" than Lemaire or Gainey.

It's an interesting discussion, but there's no real good answer.

 

[Dey so soff*]

Perhaps this has been mentioned here already and if it has I apologize, but I think it is because he isn’t loud and flamboyant like Ovie is.

I’m 34 and I guess that makes me “old” by today’s standards but it appears to me that “characters” with flash and headline grabbing sound bites are what is desired in today’s game. Guys that are quiet and try to stay out of the spotlight when they are off the ice are considered “boring” and “robotic” and they don’t hold the interest of many fans...

It’s a product of society I guess. Let’s take for instance Hollywood. Tom Hanks is one of the greatest actors out there but he keeps to himself when he’s not filming and doesn’t make headlines. But then you have some loudmouth lunatic who is always in trouble and they get all the attention.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that there are a bunch of loundmouth lunatics in the NHL but there are certain players that get a lot of attention because of their “flash” and off the ice behavior while others are largely ignored because they are “dull” and “boring”.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

There is literally three or four players in history that have put up as many 40+ goal seasons as Ovie.

He is flat out going to be the best Russian of all time.

Depends how much you value goals as the major factor in deciding which player is better.

Is Brett Hull better than guys like Forsberg or Sakic? He certainly put up all-time great goal scoring totals that neither of those guys approached. But is he really *better* than them?

Obviously Ovechkin's a more impactful player than Hull, as his physical game and ability to create his own goals off the rush (especially when he was younger) are superior. But at the same time, just because a player is elite (or even all-time great) at one single aspect doesn't make him better than someone who is multi-dimensional, which I think Malkin qualifies as.

 

[Turin]

One of the more underrated facets of Malkin as a player that only Penguins fans know about it is his leadership. Every time something is said to galvanize the team it seems to be from him. From putting money on the board to whoever scores to beat Tampa in 2009, to telling the vets who wanted to take Sid’s captaincy to F off, to guaranteeing a Penguins game 7 win against Tampa after game 5.

 

[TheSniper26]

Geno's underrated because of the idea that he gets to feast on weaker competition playing behind Crosby and therefore his numbers are seen as misleading. Of course, as diehard Pens fans we know better because we've seen him up his game when Sid is out(and vice versa actually). The casual fan won't put that much effort into forming their opinion though.

At least people have kind of come around on Geno in recent years though. I think the underrating of Phil is even more egregious. All the guy does is stay healthy, play clean, consistently produce and elevate his game in big moments. I'll never get the beef some people seem to have with him.

 

[pokey10]

Injuries, Crosby, and for a good bit of years Ovechkin was the better Russian player.

I'd say Malkin has been better than Ovie if you were to look at their carrers, in whole, to date.

 

[Son Goku]

I'd say Malkin has been better than Ovie if you were to look at their carrers, in whole, to date.

I'd say it's certainly close but early on Ovie was clearly superior.

 

[pokey10]

I hate this argument. He’s paid to score and he does it better than basically any player in league history outside of Gretzky and Bossy

Hull? Richard?

 

[pokey10]

I'd say it's certainly close but early on Ovie was clearly superior.

AO couldnt be touched in his first 4 years. Thats were this dumb narrative of a rivalry between him and Sid came from. But, as the story goes for most snipers, they tend to regress faster than your play makers.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Not to mention we’ve literally seen the domination Ovechkin can do first hand. He’s outplayed Malkin head to head every playoff series aside from ‘09 where you could make a small argument that Malkin sparks our come back.

That’s just plain wrong. Malkin outplayed and out scored Ovechkin last year as well, and was the better player in the 2009 playoffs too. That’s 2/3 in Malkin’s favor.

Not to mention when the two play on the same team internationally, Malkin is the better player more often than not, and usually out scores Ovechkin in that environment too.

 

[cygnus47]

IMO because his injuries have meant he hasn’t competed for as many awards as the other guys for the last 5 years. People have short memories and his name hasn’t been near the top of those lists consistently.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's because his fitness app hasn't launched yet.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

It's become so pathetic that I could see him getting the Rocket, Ross and still not being awarded the Hart this year. Is anybody outside of Pittsburgh even talking about the season he is having?

 

[billybudd]

1. Perceived to be in Sid's shadow
2. Not Canadian
3. Lower raw numbers than another Russian from the same draft class
4. Doesn't engage with Canadian or US media--only local media and only intermittently

#2 and #4 shouldn't matter at all, but they do.

 

[billybudd]

The thing I don't buy about the Crosby overshadowed thing is the league has a history of embracing the second fiddles ... i mean Messier was a legend... jagr got his props... the Detroit players were propped up en mass... no one overshadowed them...

Messier won two championships with Gretzky not on his team and--this is probably the important part--one of those was for New York.

 

[billybudd]

I think Crosby "overshadowing" him his entire time in the league certainly has to be the biggest reason. I would argue that him only playing 70+ games 4 times total in his whole career would have to be a close second.

This is probably fair. Beliveau gets nowhere near the recognition that Howe does, despite the little-known fact that JB paced Howe for the entire period of their career which overlaps. Some of this has to do with JB being French, but a good bit is also because he always missed just enough games per year to be out of contention for an award he otherwise would have won. If JB was an iron man, he has something like 5 Art Rosses instead of 1.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Messier won two championships with Gretzky not on his team and--this is probably the important part--one of those was for New York.

Yeah, the legend about Messy 'Ey and the woeful Original 6 Rags is pretty well-established in league lore. Intangibles, grit, etc. Spearing dudes in the nards. A real Canadian hero, that one.

But it's still strange to me that a guy who's perennially in the top 15 in scoring and a Conn Smythe winner is so under-appreciated regardless of who he plays for. Malkin's got at least Toews' resume, minus playing for an Original 6 club.

The one that's really weird on that list though is Gilbert Perrault. I guess it's good that he was popular?

 

[Allie Kitsune]

But it's still strange to me that a guy who's perennially in the top 15 in scoring and a Conn Smythe winner is so under-appreciated regardless of who he plays for. Malkin's got at least Toews' resume, minus playing for an Original 6 club.

I don't know, I always got the impression that the league old-timers, and league management (with the exception of Uncle Gary) seem to have a massive hate-on for the Pens.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't know, I always got the impression that the league old-timers, and league management (with the exception of Uncle Gary) seem to have a massive hate-on for the Pens.

Which is why that top 100 list is always going to be funny-- the Leafs and Rangers have some very dubious selections there, and the list as a whole is so insanely biased towards the Original 6 that it leaves out a swath of great players who made their bones on other teams while propping up above average players as all-time greats for the sake of appeasing the Hawks, Bruins, Leafs, and so on.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This is probably fair. Beliveau gets nowhere near the recognition that Howe does, despite the little-known fact that JB paced Howe for the entire period of their career which overlaps. Some of this has to do with JB being French, but a good bit is also because he always missed just enough games per year to be out of contention for an award he otherwise would have won. If JB was an iron man, he has something like 5 Art Rosses instead of 1.

That said, Howe won 4 Art Rosses and 2 Harts before Beliveau had played his first full season, so he had a pretty incredible resume pre-JB. Those years were one of the greatest peaks in NHL history, right up there with the best of Gretz and Mario.

 

[Shady Machine]

The Russian factor is bigger than most want to admit. Even Ovie gets slighted fairly often, but his absurd goal totals are just too much for anyone to ignore or try to discount. Obviously Sid, injuries, and Geno's lack of desire to play ball with Canadian media are big factors as well.

The NHL pundits are also very much flavor of the week driven as well. Each year a new star comes out of the woodwork with a great season but generally fizzles out or isn't consistently dominant. That consistency in top 10 scoring is what makes Sid, Geno, and Ovie the clear 3 best of this era.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The Russian factor is bigger than most want to admit. Even Ovie gets slighted fairly often, but his absurd goal totals are just too much for anyone to ignore or try to discount. Obviously Sid, injuries, and Geno's lack of desire to play ball with Canadian media are big factors as well.

The NHL pundits are also very much flavor of the week driven as well. Each year a new star comes out of the woodwork with a great season but generally fizzles out or isn't consistently dominant. That consistency in top 10 scoring is what makes Sid, Geno, and Ovie the clear 3 best of this era.

Right on.

It's crazy how many people also want to downplay Ovechkin's career now, speaking of Russians. I know he's not the threat he once was, but he's not exactly washed up and is, as of today a goddamned 40 goal scorer.

 

[madinsomniac]

I like the research you did for the ppg, but I just caution that we don't simple look at this based on numbers. There is so much more to the game.

Great, take away scoring and what does Ovie bring to the table? Very Physical charging?

The knocks on Malkin aka not the best in the faceoff circle.. occasionally lax in defense... they still dwarf Ovies contributions there.... ... Lets not ignore that Ovie takes a metric ton of shots and does so often at detrimint to every other aspect of his game... Malkin's career shooting percentage is higher than Ovie's. Ovie isnt the best goalscorer ever... he is very good, but he really isnt close to the best of all time... he has a good shot and takes it way too often... whenever he gets a coach who makes him play a complete game, and take good shots, his offensive production suffers tremendously.... I think its pointful to note that every time Malkin is playing a responsible and intelligent 200 ft game, his offensive production seems to skyrocket....

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This is probably fair. Beliveau gets nowhere near the recognition that Howe does, despite the little-known fact that JB paced Howe for the entire period of their career which overlaps. Some of this has to do with JB being French, but a good bit is also because he always missed just enough games per year to be out of contention for an award he otherwise would have won. If JB was an iron man, he has something like 5 Art Rosses instead of 1.

Now I'm getting up there but I'm not old enough to have had the pleasure of watching those guys play in their day. However a few years back, NHL Network was running old playoff games from decades ago during the Summer and I'd sometimes not have much else to do so I'd sit and watch and marvel at how different so much was about the game but also how much has never changed. One of the teams that (of course) would get a lot of games televised was Montreal. And I have to tell you... everything they say about Beliveau is true. Such grace, ability and far-ahead-of-his-time hands and vision. Terrific skater, too.

Know who reminds me a LOT of Beliveau? The guy we're talking about, here.