Why does Columbus have an NHL team?

[Ford Prefect]

Sorry if this has been discussed before. When the NHL decided to expand into Ohio, why did it select Columbus? I understand (and was surprised to learn) that it has the largest population, by a comfortable margin, of the three biggest cities in the state. However, when including the total metropolitan area, Cleveland has more than 1,000,000 more residents. It has other established professional franchises (as does Cincinnati). Cincinnati has a higher GDP per capita than Columbus. Did it come down to less competition for entertainment dollars there? Greater corporate interest? Were other cities designated as markets for other teams (like Pittsburgh)?

I always thought that about San Jose / San Francisco as well, but that's a different discussion for a different thread.

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[Mightygoose]

Simplest reason who be there was an arena plan and an ownership group who was willing to pay the expansion fee.

Plus being the only big 4 team helps. It would have been very crowded in Cleveland plus the Cavs operate the area so an NHL team not owned by them wouldn't be viable

 

[WarriorofTime]

Arena/Owner. They had a very popular ECHL team in Columbus so that gave some positive assurances about "hockey market". The ECHL team almost had to move at some point and the city rallied hard to keep them, which gave the NHL the idea to explore it as an expansion site. The city was enthusiastic and committed to building an arena, and even after it got voted down by the public, private ownership stepped in to construct it.

Being dead center of the state is good too. Kick out the area beyond the MSA and they have a good bit within 2-2.5 hours without NHL competition in the area. In theory, OSU students from all over the state can go to games while there and then graduate and stay fans even if they live outside the MSA still able to attend the occasional game, especially on weekends.

They'll never be a bigger deal than Ohio State University Buckeyes but they're not a bad representative for the Ohio market.

 

[KevFu]

Two things:

#1 - Cleveland and Cincinnati are saturated with sports teams. Two MLB, Two NFL, One NBA. Being "Fourth" in markets of 2.0 to 3.0 million people vs being "Columbus's First Big Four Team" is a no brainer.

Especially when you consider the TV model of cable: Columbus is OHIO'S TEAM.

In a "restarting MLB from scratch" model, baseball fans would absolutely put one team in Columbus instead of one in Cleveland and Cincinnati, which both operate as small market teams.


#2 - Yes, it was exactly the same for San Jose, where SF/OAK had the Giants, A's, 49ers, either the Raiders or were about to get the Raiders back and the Warriors. San Jose had... not even MLS yet.

It's actually "even better" in San Jose than Columbus, because there's more/bigger secondary markets for TV and they're tighter and more connected with a mass transit system that covers a lot of the distance from SJ to SAC.

You can take the train from SF/OAK to SJ. You can't do that from CIN or CLE to CBJ.

 

[aqib]

Cleveland was off the table because the Gunds controlled the arena and they owned the Sharks at the time.

At the time the city was doing well so it may have been a candidate otherwise but they lost a lot of corporate HQs in subsequent years so it wouldn't have worked out.

 

[Chainshot]

There was also talk that they wanted to try to leverage the OSU vs Michigan/Michigan State thinking that Columbus would get a natural rivalry with Detroit. I don't know if that has ever come to pass, but I remember reading that in an old Hockey News article around the time of the expansion announcement.

 

[Headshot77]

Cleveland/Akron - 3.7 mil in their CSA - NBA, NFL, MLB already there

Cincinnati - 2.3 mil in their CSA - NFL, MLB already there.

Columbus - 2.6 mil in their CSA - Just Ohio State to compete with.

/ Thread

TBH I think this is a good reason why Austin should get the NHL before Houston. Houston is already saturated and Austin is dying for a team.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

If OSU was one of the top programs in the NCAA chances are CBJ would be drafting players from there more often. The fact is that prior to PSU moving up they were the only Big Ten program without a national title. Plus they had the fewest NCAA tourney appearances of all Big Ten programs prior to PSU moving up. As long as OSU is a contender in football hockey won't get much attention there.

 

[joelef]

If OSU was one of the top programs in the NCAA chances are CBJ would be drafting players from there more often. The fact is that prior to PSU moving up they were the only Big Ten program without a national title. Plus they had the fewest NCAA tourney appearances of all Big Ten programs prior to PSU moving up. As long as OSU is a contender in football hockey won't get much attention there.

The crew is doing pretty good.

 

[KevFu]

The other thing to remember is that Karamanos flirted heavily with Columbus when looking to relocate the Whalers. A lot of the background/vetting of the market as a potential NHL spot, and a lot of the "Should we build an arena for an NHL team?" decision making in 'Lumbus was because of THAT.

Karamanos had not made a decision when the NHL started an expansion process; and both 'Lumbus and Raleigh applied. Raleigh obviously pulled out when Karamanos cut a deal to move the Whalers, and 'Lumbus obvious won.

 

[KevFu]

Cleveland/Akron - 3.7 mil in their CSA - NBA, NFL, MLB already there

Cincinnati - 2.3 mil in their CSA - NFL, MLB already there.

Columbus - 2.6 mil in their CSA - Just Ohio State to compete with.

/ Thread

TBH I think this is a good reason why Austin should get the NHL before Houston. Houston is already saturated and Austin is dying for a team.

I "agree" with the logic of market saturation and the significance of that. But in the case of Houston vs Austin... you want Houston. We're not talking 3.7 vs 2.6 vs 2.3 like in Ohaio.

We're talking 2.4 vs 7.4. And Austin would be a "Secondary Market" for Houston.

Now, if you KNOW you're doing BOTH, then pick Austin first; but if you don't know for sure, it's Houston first.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Central location in an untapped state + open arena + the original owners put up the money that the NHL wanted made a good pitch.

To be fair, I really have no doubt that Columbus would be viewed as a good and successful market if they weren't more or less stuck as the least accomplished team this century. They've basically had one postseason series, one free agent signing, and one trade to cheer for and they still draw fairly well. If the Jackets ever put together an actual window of meaningful contention, I think they'll explode.

 

[KevFu]

To be fair, I really have no doubt that Columbus would be viewed as a good and successful market if they weren't more or less stuck as as the least accomplished team this century.

Yeesh, I didn't realize they were the worst franchise (of 30) by points since 2000-01.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Sorry if this has been discussed before. When the NHL decided to expand into Ohio, why did it select Columbus?

The NHL doesn't just look at a map and decide what markets it wants to enter. Before the NHL expands it does assess the market, yes - but it also looks at if there is a valid arena, and if there is an owner willing to pay the expansion fee.

Just refreshing my memory - Columbus announced they would build a brand new arena May 31, 1997 - and June 25 that same year it was announced they would get an expansion team. The team had to pay an $80 million dollar expansion fee (that seems ridiculous in 2024) fronted by John McConnell (his son, also named John, currently owns the team).

So the basic answer is they picked Columbus because someone was willing to pay $80 mil to put a team there. I don't think the same existed for Cincinnati or Cleveland.

But just looking at the market though - yes both Cinci and Cleveland had multiple pro sports teams, while C'bus "only" had Ohio State (I say "only" because that might as well be multiple pro teams). It was also a centralized location that could potentially draw hockey fans from the Cinci and Cleveland as well as C'bus itself.

I do agree with @No Fun Shogun that it would be interesting to see if CBJ ever had a sustained run of good play just how excited that fan base would be since they've won one playoff series ever in their entire 25 year history and have generally been seen as a disappointment.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I do agree with @No Fun Shogun that it would be interesting to see if CBJ ever had a sustained run of good play just how excited that fan base would be since they've won one playoff series ever in their entire 25 year history and have generally been seen as a disappointment.

CBJ can start getting there by hiring Trotz to serve as GM and HC.

 

[KevFu]

CBJ can start getting there by hiring Trotz to serve as GM and HC.

Don't think Nashville is giving him up

 

[LadyStanley]

#2 - Yes, it was exactly the same for San Jose, where SF/OAK had the Giants, A's, 49ers, either the Raiders or were about to get the Raiders back and the Warriors. San Jose had... not even MLS yet.

It's actually "even better" in San Jose than Columbus, because there's more/bigger secondary markets for TV and they're tighter and more connected with a mass transit system that covers a lot of the distance from SJ to SAC.

You can take the train from SF/OAK to SJ. You can't do that from CIN or CLE to CBJ.

MLS Earhtquakes started in 1994, the same season that the Sharks moved into their new SJ arena. (Quakes were on hiatus for two seasons mid 2000s.) (MLS was founded in 1993.)

But there was pro soccer in San Jose the SF Bay Blackhawks (starting in 1989) before the Sharks franchise was founded.

College sports (Stanford, Cal Berkley, Santa Clara U, San Jose State U, plus other state colleges, junior colleges) were king in the South Bay.

In 1989, San Jose exceeded San Francisco in population. The Sharks franchise was formed in May 1990, but started play the following year in the 1991-92 season. It was a major point in improving pride in the city/county by having a "San Jose" team to call their own.

 

[Bonk]

I live in Cincinnati. I like it here, but no one cares about hockey. High school sports, college bouncyball (University of Kentucky, University of Cincinnati and Xavier University) and the Bengals (now that they're actually good) are the fall/winter sports/teams people worship here.

Considering how bad the CBJ have been since their inception, their attendance is actually pretty damned good. Plus, TV-wise, they're in the Cleveland and Cincinnati markets and have made some fans in Cincinnati.

I even know a handful of people that live in Cincinnati and have partial season tickets to the CBJ and make the 100-mile commute all winter.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

The way they sold it at the time, they wanted to tap into the whole Ohio State thing. Really if the team had more success than they've had, we'd probably be talking about Columbus as a pretty good market. It's not bad.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I "agree" with the logic of market saturation and the significance of that. But in the case of Houston vs Austin... you want Houston. We're not talking 3.7 vs 2.6 vs 2.3 like in Ohaio.

We're talking 2.4 vs 7.4. And Austin would be a "Secondary Market" for Houston.

Now, if you KNOW you're doing BOTH, then pick Austin first; but if you don't know for sure, it's Houston first.

Ideally you give both cities a team.

But yes, Houston should be a priority. But Austin is definitely growing.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

To clarify the combined Austin - San Antonio metroplex is now over 5 million. The two downtowns are only 80 miles apart.

That's why both Houston and Central Texas should be high on the priority list. Hockey is an easy sell in Texas and this could be marketed regionally as Central Texas or even just Texas. Lots of high tech corporations there as well...

San Antonio–Austin metroplex - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That states... "Census projections estimate that San Antonio–Austin metroplex will experience rapid population growth in the upcoming decades and is positioned to become one of the main metropolitan areas in the entire US by the year 2100."

 

[KevFu]

MLS Earthquakes started in 1994, the same season that the Sharks moved into their new SJ arena... MLS was founded.

College sports (Stanford, Cal Berkley, Santa Clara U, San Jose State U, plus other state colleges, junior colleges) were king in the South Bay.

In 1989, San Jose exceeded San Francisco in population. The Sharks franchise was formed in May 1990, but started play the following year in the 1991-92 season. It was a major point in improving pride in the city/county by having a "San Jose" team to call their own.

Yeah, I was using the 1996 MLS start date for the Quakes. On the population front, I've always ignored "city" population, because it's market. San Jose is a Bay Area city/market. I got their games in Stockton, and all the way up to Sacramento they're the "home team."

Putting a team in San Jose made sense, when hockey was the young, cool game -- don't overlook how greatly aided hockey was in the 1990s by EA Sports NHL game. That was HUGE because it was so damned fun that even those who didn't "like hockey" knew the NHL teams from the game (Also a big part of the nostalgia factor on the Jets, Diques, Whalers and North Stars). So Silicon Valley getting their own team was big.

I live in Cincinnati. I like it here, but no one cares about hockey. High school sports, college bouncyball (University of Kentucky, University of Cincinnati and Xavier University) and the Bengals (now that they're actually good) are the fall/winter sports/teams people worship here.

Considering how bad the CBJ have been since their inception, their attendance is actually pretty damned good. Plus, TV-wise, they're in the Cleveland and Cincinnati markets and have made some fans in Cincinnati.

I even know a handful of people that live in Cincinnati and have partial season tickets to the CBJ and make the 100-mile commute all winter.

Yeah, I think Cincy is just too saturated with sports teams to put an NHL team there.

I'm glad you brought up UC and X, because it's the center of a "Golden Square" for college hoops that's just insane: Purdue, Butler, Dayton, Ohio St, Cincinnati, Xavier, Kentucky, Louisville, Indiana; as well as Indiana St, Ball State, Miami OH, Evansville, IUPUI, Wright State, Northern Kentucky and Bellarmine.

That's a lot of money being spent on college basketball. And definitely a factor in the market saturation.

Ideally you give both cities a team.

But yes, Houston should be a priority. But Austin is definitely growing.

Agreed. I think that if Houston got into the NHL in the 1990s, we'd be talking about Austin now for 36.

 

[koteka]

Columbus is also growing and filled with young people with disposable income. Columbus is a lot like Austin - state capital and home of a large university that was overshadowed by other cities in its state (Cleveland, Cincinnati and Houston, Dallas) but has seen tremendous population growth in the last few decades.

Almost all the recent population growth in Ohio has been in central Ohio. While most of the state had economies based on manufacturing (especially car manufacturing), Columbus has always been more of a government, health care, insurance, and banking kind of city. The Jackets play in Nationwide Arena — Nationwide Insurance (“Nationwide is on your side”) is headquartered in Columbus. Another huge employer in Columbus is JP Morgan Chase - their largest office is in Columbus. Ironically, Honda has a big plant in Marysville just northwest of Columbus which is thriving while much of Ohio has seen car plants close. Now we have Intel moving into an area just northeast of Columbus

https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2022/11/15/columbus-outpacing-ohio-population-growth

 

[BigT2002]

Others have hit the nail on the head, in my opinion; however, another topical reason is that Columbus offered some embedded rivalries very quickly regarding what could help sell the game and tickets. Between Detroit and Chicago, two nearby large cities would be able to travel significantly well into Columbus.

It is a Rust Belt state, which theoretically should have had a larger hockey following than it did. The issue is always that football is just simply king in Ohio. Putting it in Columbus felt much better than Cincy or Cleveland because it was not in direct competition with those cities for airtime and market saturation.

 

[Headshot77]

It would probably behoove Columbus to one day rebrand as "Ohio" like what other regional teams do. I feel like if you're in Cincinnati or Cleveland you'd be much more willing to support them if they were "Ohio's team" and not "Columbus' Team".