Why did Theoren Fleury get traded to the Colorado Avalanche in 1998-99?

[feffan]

Hejduk would still play with one of Forsberg or Sakic. I doubt his career would be less spectacular. The difference would be that Avs would have a extremely potent RW which they lacked during that period. Deadmarsh were slowing down and Lemieux was traded for Rolston, Fleury and Hejduk would be golden.

The big difference would be being the 1st option on RW and on the 1st PP for a player like Hejduk. With Fleury there I don´t think Hejduk gets his Richard 50 goal season. Most impressive about that season is that he led the leuage with 32 EV goal. With Fleury there he would probably not get as many minutes out there when they where chasing a lead or a tying goal. And 18 out of thoose 50 where scored on the PP. Fleury would probably still be the main option, or at least give the Colorado a 2nd option to Hejduks spot (outside Forsberg and Sakic the next highest goal scoring Colorado forward was Tanguay and Vrbata with 3 each... Hejduk was not just the main trigger man, he was the only trigger man as forwards go...). That season is his defining season (along with the 01 PO.s...). With Fleury there I would guess Hejduk instead gets around 40 goals. So to me that takes away his only really spectacular season (even if he had a few other good ones...).

 

[Hobnobs]

The big difference would be being the 1st option on RW and on the 1st PP for a player like Hejduk. With Fleury there I don´t think Hejduk gets his Richard 50 goal season. Most impressive about that season is that he led the leuage with 32 EV goal. With Fleury there he would probably not get as many minutes out there when they where chasing a lead or a tying goal. And 18 out of thoose 50 where scored on the PP. Fleury would probably still be the main option, or at least give the Colorado a 2nd option to Hejduks spot (outside Forsberg and Sakic the next highest goal scoring Colorado forward was Tanguay and Vrbata with 3 each... Hejduk was not just the main trigger man, he was the only trigger man as forwards go...). That season is his defining season (along with the 01 PO.s...). With Fleury there I would guess Hejduk instead gets around 40 goals. So to me that takes away his only really spectacular season (even if he had a few other good ones...).

True but tbh. Hejduk was an ES kinda guy. Also I think he would last longer instead of having all that pressure on him as a rookie. You can also think about this. If he was the only trigger man then he was on the ice against the oppositions best defensive players at all times. With Fleury there he could cash in on some weaker defensive lines.

 

[leftwinger37]

Fleury was traded because he was a UFA that Calgary would not have been able to keep, and he went to Colorado because the Avalanche and Red Wings were in somewhat of a nuclear arms race.

But I will disagree with the idea that Theo Fleury never played at a star level again after 1998-99. Unless the absolute worst happened (and it did), I think that's your 2001 Hart Trophy winner. Through late-January, he had 65 points in 48 games and had still been thriving offensively throughout a bad post-Christmas stretch by his Rangers teammates. He was playing so well, had he held together, they may have snuck into the playoffs even though they were 29th in save percentage and allowed the 2nd most shots.

Someone should have given him a throwaway 0-0-0-0-1 Hart vote, but it was kind of a loaded field that year.

Still should have been the 2001 Hart winner based on what he was doing to himself away from the rink and still performing at that level.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Still should have been the 2001 Hart winner based on what he was doing to himself away from the rink and still performing at that level.

When I think about Fleury in the context of the HHOF, 2000-01 is what I think about. To be suffering the way he was and to still ascend to the highest level where he was being talked about as maybe the best player in the league, he's worthy of the honor.

 

[tarheelhockey]

When I think about Fleury in the context of the HHOF, 2000-01 is what I think about. To be suffering the way he was and to still ascend to the highest level where he was being talked about as maybe the best player in the league, he's worthy of the honor.

That's kind of a weird way to think about it TBH. If a player is drinking himself half to death he gets a performance bonus in his HHOF argument?

 

[Whaleafs]

> 5'6"
> scored over PPG with majority of career in DPE

Theo was my 2nd favourite player as a kid, after Kariya.
To answer OP, Calgary just couldn't afford him anymore.
His induction into the HHOF in inevitable. I would guess there just hasn't been enough time for everything to blow over about how he went out.

 

[quoipourquoi]

That's kind of a weird way to think about it TBH. If a player is drinking himself half to death he gets a performance bonus in his HHOF argument?

When he ascends to maybe the top spot in spite of self-medicating from having been sexually assaulted, sure. Takes a lot of perseverance to function at that level when you're half-dead.

 

[leftwinger37]

When I think about Fleury in the context of the HHOF, 2000-01 is what I think about. To be suffering the way he was and to still ascend to the highest level where he was being talked about as maybe the best player in the league, he's worthy of the honor.

That's kind of a weird way to think about it TBH. If a player is drinking himself half to death he gets a performance bonus in his HHOF argument?

I will preface this by saying I was big Theo fan as a youngster. I followed his career through all of his trials and tribulations and read his book, so I see both sides of the coin on this one.

On one hand, I think his performance that season gave a glimpse of the level he was capable of taking his game to. If he were sober and completely focused, who knows what his ceiling would have been....

On the other hand, therein lies the problem with his HHOF candidacy. He was a very good NHL player for about 12 years that was just scratching the surface of greatness when his demons overtook him. He won a Cup, a WJC, Olympic Gold, and a Turner Cup, so he was undisputedly a winner who put together a great career.... but if he finishes that season strong and wins a scoring title, a Hart, a Pearson, or all of the above he is in a different class among the stars of that era.

Regardless, the actual standards for getting in the Hall appear to be quite lower than mine, so I wish him all the best and expect him to eventually get the call. Of course, the process will have become such a joke at that point that Mike Milbury will probably be the committee chairman.

 

[AvsGuy]

The Avalanche have historically enjoyed giving away young top four defensive prospects for nothing.

Was Regehr’s peak ever that high? I already forget. Funny that Rene Corbet and Chris Dingman were in that deal too.

 

[streitz]

He was a good player and they thought he could help them win the cup?


What a weird thread.

 

[FerrisRox]

Fleury looked like he had several more years left playing at an All-Star caliber level when he was only 30 years old, and was scoring 30 goals + 39 assists for 69 points in 60 games for Calgary during '98-'99 before he suddenly got traded to the Colorado Avalanche for unknown reasons.

Unknown reasons? The reasons were very well known. He was a soon-to-be unrestricted free agent and would be getting a pay day that the Flames couldn't dream of matching so they traded him rather then losing him for nothing. This was very well documented at the time. There was absolutely no mystery about this and he certainly wasn't traded "suddenly." Everybody in the league knew that Fleury wasn't going to end the season in Calgary.

However, Colorado had Claude Lemieux, rookie Milan Hejduk, Adam Deadmarsh and Shean Donovan all ahead of Fleury on the Avs' RW depth chart in '98-'99

Nobody was ahead of him on the depth chart. How did you ever arrive at the conclusion that Sean Donovan would be ahead of Fleury on the depth chart. Shean Donovan?!? Fleury, after the deal, slotted in at the top of the depth chart.

After 1998-99, Fleury never again played at a star level after leaving Colorado

This is absolutely false. He was arguably the best player in the NHL for the Rangers and absolutely tearing it up offensively before disaster struck in terms of his personal demons.

And what was the reason (from the perspective of the Avalanche) why the Colorado Avalanche felt the need to make the trade for Theoren Fleury even though Colorado was already stacked at RW with Claude Lemieux, Milan Hejduk, Adam Deadmarsh, Shean Donovan, Jeff Odgers, Christian Matte and Scott Parker?

Uh, because they weren't at all stacked at RW and several of the guys you are mentioning are laughable. You think Jeff Odgers, Shean Donovan, Scott Parker and Christian Matte represent being stacked?

Prior to getting traded to the Avalanche in '98-'99, Fleury looked like he would play his entire NHL career with the Calgary Flames, and he would be a part of the Flames forever.

Again, nobody on the planet thought this. It was plainly obvious that his talent and production had priced him out of being a Calgary Flame and *everybody* knew he was going to be traded away that season.

 

[billybudd]

Fleury was traded because he was a UFA that Calgary would not have been able to keep, and he went to Colorado because the Avalanche and Red Wings were in somewhat of a nuclear arms race.

But I will disagree with the idea that Theo Fleury never played at a star level again after 1998-99. Unless the absolute worst happened (and it did), I think that's your 2001 Hart Trophy winner. Through late-January, he had 65 points in 48 games and had still been thriving offensively throughout a bad post-Christmas stretch by his Rangers teammates. He was playing so well, had he held together, they may have snuck into the playoffs even though they were 29th in save percentage and allowed the 2nd most shots.

Someone should have given him a throwaway 0-0-0-0-1 Hart vote, but it was kind of a loaded field that year.

Yeah, he was leading the NHL in points by a pretty good margin for half a year before, iirc, ending up in rehab.

 

[irunthepeg]

Sorry for the necro bump. Was reading about Theo deserving his # retired by the Flames and decided to look at his HockeyDB. I noticed he only played with the Avs for that one season getting traded there. His numbers say he was on fire. How come he never re-signed there? Was it purely $$$?

 

[quoipourquoi]

Sorry for the necro bump. Was reading about Theo deserving his # retired by the Flames and decided to look at his HockeyDB. I noticed he only played with the Avs for that one season getting traded there. His numbers say he was on fire. How come he never re-signed there? Was it purely $$$?

Fleury had made it clear prior to being traded that he was looking to maximize his return through free agency, so when he went on the block, every GM figured he was just a rental.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Fleury's speed was notable in the playoff series against the Wings that year iirc. We beat them because we outskated them and he was great, too bad he couldn't stay long with the team.

Don't get it twisted - The avalanche beat the Wings in 99 because Bill Ranford would have let in beach balls from the fans on the other side of the arena and Chris Osgood replaced him in games 5 and 6 while playing with a broken hand.

That being said, Fleury and Sakic looked really good together that season. I remember the pickup and thought it would have gotten the avs to the finals if they beat the Wings.

 

[Cyclones21]

Thanks for the bump guys - this was actually my first time reading this - plus it started on Dec 1 which is my birthday.

This interest me as a Rangers fan because I was really excited for the Fleury signing. As noted above, Fleury had a good 2000-01 season until his season abruptly ended.

This season was also Messier's return after 3 years in Vancouver, Glen Sather's first as GM and Ron Low's first as head coach of the Rangers. Theo quietly returned to form.

If the rumors were true, Theo was close to being traded that season to Phoenix (Gretzky was owner at the time).

https://nypost.com/2001/03/01/rehab-kos-trade-theo-was-key-to-blockbuster-deal-for-coyote-star/

Theo Fleury – who was placed in the NHL’s player union’s substance-abuse program yesterday – was about to be asked to waive his no-trade clause by Ranger GM Glen Sather so that he could be included in a package for express delivery to Phoenix in exchange for Nikolai Khabibulin and Keith Tkachuk, The Post has learned from multiple league sources.

 

[JianYang]

By the late 90s, the three smaller Canadian clubs in Calgary, Edmonton, and Ottawa had three of the lowest payrolls in the league.

I believe Ottawa was for sale around this time, while Edmonton wasn't that far removed from Houston rumours. I don't recall serious rumours about Calgary leaving but it was known that they were penny pinching.

It was pretty clear that the flames would not be able to compete with the best offers for Theo with their payroll structure at the time. On top of that, Theo might have wanted a new change anyways, because the flames were not longer a competitive threat like they were before.

So it's no surprise that he left, but it was a dark time for alot of fans in the Canadian marketplace. There was a feeling that many of the Canadian teams had become a feeder of talent to the bigger payroll teams.

Ottawa, and Edmonton were actually kind of competitive through this time through some good drafting and/or trades, but they weren't going to hit any home runs at the deadline to put their team over the top. I recall Ottawa finished among the top teams in the east one year, and the best deadline piece they could add was Nelson Emerson.

It was just a way of the times for the smaller Canadian teams.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Sakic
Forsberg
Fleury
Kariya
Selanne
Hejduk
Tanguay
Drury
Deadmarsh
Lemieux
Blake
Foote
Bourque
Roy

That team was stacked.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

Sakic
Forsberg
Fleury
Kariya
Selanne
Hejduk
Tanguay
Drury
Deadmarsh
Lemieux
Blake
Foote
Bourque
Roy

That team was stacked.

They all didn't play together, no Tanguay or Bourque till 2000 and no Blake till 01. Deadmarsh was traded for Blake and Selanne and Kairiya weren't there till 03 04. Lemieux was traded in 2000.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

Sakic
Forsberg
Fleury
Kariya
Selanne
Hejduk
Tanguay
Drury
Deadmarsh
Lemieux
Blake
Foote
Bourque
Roy

That team was stacked.

They all didn't play together, no Tanguay or Bourque till 2000 and no Blake till 01. Deadmarsh was traded for Blake and Selanne and Kairiya weren't there till 03 04. Lemieux was traded in 2000.

 

[MS]

Sorry for the necro bump. Was reading about Theo deserving his # retired by the Flames and decided to look at his HockeyDB. I noticed he only played with the Avs for that one season getting traded there. His numbers say he was on fire. How come he never re-signed there? Was it purely $$$?

As mentioned, NYR paid huge for him.

Additionally - and I can’t provide a source for this so make of it what you will - I distinctly rumours at that time that, despite his productivity, after seeing his ‘lifestyle’ and off-ice habits up close, Colorado were scared off of making the long-term commitment needed to keep him.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i wonder if the finances would have worked how fleury on the avs for that next contract would have turned out.

would being with sakic have been good for him? or would seeing sakic every day have triggered him even more? one also has to wonder what effect having fleury around would have had on sakic. i am guessing he has his own graham james baggage, even if he was never a victim himself.

and of course would the later bourque and blake trades have been financially feasible with fleury on potentially a max deal?

but hockey wise, assuming he has things under control, having fleury there would have ensured that even when one of forsberg or sakic is injured, colorado would always have an elite scorer on two lines. i would have been terrified to face them.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Additionally - and I can’t provide a source for this so make of it what you will - I distinctly rumours at that time that, despite his productivity, after seeing his ‘lifestyle’ and off-ice habits up close, Colorado were scared off of making the long-term commitment needed to keep him.

I think its public record that he missed a playoff game in 99 due to reasons that were not injury

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Neil Smith revealed in an interview with Sports Business Journal that he was ordered to sign Fleury by Jim Dolan, and that he didn't want to do it.

 

[Stephen]

Calgary was in sell off mode as a smaller market Canadian team in the late 90s. Fleury was set to hit free agency, was going to be priced out of Calgary and basically the last of the bunch to go to auction from their 1989 core, with Gilmour leaving in 1992, MacInnis, Suter leaving in 1994, Vernon in 1995, Otto and Nieuwendyk, Housley in 1996, an unretired Roberts, Kidd and Reichel in 1997.

Colorado was actually interesting because after their 1996 Stanley Cup they actually started a mini retool by trading off secondary guys like Fiset, Ricci and company for a bunch of 1998 first rounders, in an attempt to secure the Vincent Lecavalier pick. I guess Pierre Lacroix was taking a page out of the Sam Pollock school of management. Long story short, they ended up with a haul of Tanguay, Regehr, Skoula and Parker in the first round, which partially allowed them to go out and rent a boat load of players over the next few years, including Theo Fleury. It didn't work out for them in 1999, but they went back to the well for Ray Bourque in 2000 and then Rob Blake in 2001.