Why did Sergei Fedorov hold out prior to and through a substantial part of the 1997-1998 season?

Crosby2010

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yes, they are rather stingy historically. The Blackhawks, another Original Six Franchise, have historically been as well. On Sunday, Chris Chelios will be the 9th player to have his jersey retired. Marian Hossa had his jersey retired a year and a half ago to be just the 8th. One expects Toews, Kane and Keith will join their ranks soon enough.

So I looked them up as well. Hall, Magnuson, Hull, Mikita, Pilote, Savard, Hossa, Tony O, soon to be Chelios. Yeah that's 9. I am trying to think of someone they might be missing but there isn't anyone that is glaring anyway. Charlie Gardiner perhaps based on how his career ended. Larmer maybe, although that ended poorly thanks to Bill Wirtz. Most likely I agree Toews, Keith and Kane are next.
 

WarriorofTime

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So I looked them up as well. Hall, Magnuson, Hull, Mikita, Pilote, Savard, Hossa, Tony O, soon to be Chelios. Yeah that's 9. I am trying to think of someone they might be missing but there isn't anyone that is glaring anyway. Charlie Gardiner perhaps based on how his career ended. Larmer maybe, although that ended poorly thanks to Bill Wirtz. Most likely I agree Toews, Keith and Kane are next.
yes, looking around the League, every team seems to have their own standards, and willingness to retire non-HHOF worthy players seems to vary. I think that Tony Esposito, Doug Wilson and Ed Belfour all have cases to be made for post-O6 era players. Thanks to the Wirtzes there weren't so many long-standing Blackhawks..
 

Crosby2010

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yes, looking around the League, every team seems to have their own standards, and willingness to retire non-HHOF worthy players seems to vary. I think that Tony Esposito, Doug Wilson and Ed Belfour all have cases to be made for post-O6 era players. Thanks to the Wirtzes there weren't so many long-standing Blackhawks..

It says Tony Esposito had his jersey retired by Chicago in 1988. Even Wirtz did something right back then.
 
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GMR

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yes, they are rather stingy historically. The Blackhawks, another Original Six Franchise, have historically been as well. On Sunday, Chris Chelios will be the 9th player to have his jersey retired. Marian Hossa had his jersey retired a year and a half ago to be just the 8th. One expects Toews, Kane and Keith will join their ranks soon enough.
Hossa's number being retired by Chicago was surprising. It's the equivalent of Shanahan getting his jersey retired in Detroit. Yeah, Shanahan won 3 Cups and was a crowd favorite but he's not a career Red Wing.

Even so, I associate Shanahan with Detroit more than Hossa with Chicago. I don't link Hossa with any particular team. He was maybe the 5th most important player on those Blackhawks Cup teams. His best years individually were at other places.
 

WarriorofTime

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Hossa's number being retired by Chicago was surprising. It's the equivalent of Shanahan getting his jersey retired in Detroit. Yeah, Shanahan won 3 Cups and was a crowd favorite but he's not a career Red Wing.

Even so, I associate Shanahan with Detroit more than Hossa with Chicago. I don't link Hossa with any particular team. He was maybe the 5th most important player on those Blackhawks Cup teams. His best years individually were at other places.
He was part of the "Big 4" of HHOF bound players part of the best stretch in Blackhawks history. Those 3 Cups in six years matched all other Cups since the Blackhawks existence. It was not surprising to me in that context, even if other players based on longevity/performance strictly in a vacuum could have a stronger case. Perfect player for them in that era, the reason they could have two dominant lines at even strength, puck possession, do it all monster at a time scoring dried up to a second DPE. I would definitely say he was a more impactful player than Seabrook or Sharp.
 

GMR

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He was part of the "Big 4" of HHOF bound players part of the best stretch in Blackhawks history. Those 3 Cups in six years matched all other Cups since the Blackhawks existence. It was not surprising to me in that context, even if other players based on longevity/performance strictly in a vacuum could have a stronger case. Perfect player for them in that era, the reason they could have two dominant lines at even strength, puck possession, do it all monster at a time scoring dried up to a second DPE. I would definitely say he was a more impactful player than Seabrook or Sharp.
You followed those teams more than I did obviously. I always figured Sharp was more impactful because you need a 2nd line center more than a 2nd line winger. Also, did Hossa significantly outscore Sharp during their Chicago years? I thought their numbers were close. BTW, I'm not saying Sharp's jersey should be retired either.

Hossa scored 415 points in 534 games in Chicago. That's not that impressive nor did he play there long enough to have his jersey retired IMO. They could have at least waited until they retired other numbers from those teams like Kane, Toews, Keith. Seemed premature to put Hossa up there so soon before the others, even if he retired first.
 
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Crosby2010

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@WarriorofTime @Crosby2010 -not to "sidetrack" my own thread--Should JR's jersey be raised to the rafters in Chicago? He a better one to retire than Belfour you think?

Nah. Wasn't there long enough. He played more games in Chicago than in Phoenix but not by a whole lot (524 vs. 454). Had his best years in Chicago, but Roenick wasn't a "career anything" when it comes to a franchise. There isn't even the idea that he was there most of his career because he wasn't. Ditto for Belfour. 415 games for the Hawks, 307 for Dallas and 170 for Toronto. Not to mention his Cup was in Dallas. If Dallas hasn't done it and he is the goalie for the only Cup win they have ever had in their franchise then he isn't going to get it in Chicago. He was hot tempered with some playoff failures there. Two Vezinas sure, but he's far from a career Hawk.

Fedorov is a different story. I don't mind the Wings being stingy on who they pick to have their names up to the rafters, but if there is a Red Wing who is the next deserving it is Fedorov. Here is a good way to decide. Finish this sentence: Sergei Fedorov was a (insert team name). It is obviously a Red Wing. 908 games out of 1248 career games. Honestly, who remembers him on Anaheim? I can just remember the fans jeering him on his first trip back to Detroit. But he's a Red Wing, no doubt. Three Cups, 4 straight 20+ point playoffs, never really had a bad postseason that I saw.
 
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Brodeur

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Funny thing is, I didn't think the Rangers were going to be contenders at that time post-1997. When they lost Messier that was a big blow. I didn't think they'd take a nosedive and then not make the playoffs until 2006 despite having such a high payroll, but I can remember in the summer of 1997 not understanding why Sakic would even risk leaving Colorado to go to a team that won't win the Cup. He's leaving Forsberg and Roy here. I guess for me it just didn't make sense.

It'll be interesting if Sakic does a deep dive into it during the upcoming ESPN documentary. I'd be curious if he was just floored by getting that money up front. Quebec had its financial issues and Colorado was apparently bleeding money despite their on ice success. That was the main reason the Rangers thought they could steal Sakic since the Avs/Nuggets ownership might have difficulty coming up with the signing bonus.

Post-1996 Cup, Pierre Lacroix had to trim payroll and dealt some useful depth players which was unusual for a contender; Lacroix also went on a side quest to accumulate 1998 1st rounders to try to land Vinny Lecavalier. They dealt Chris Simon and Curtis Leschyshyn in 1996 (they did get Keith Jones in return). Then after matching the Sakic offer sheet, Lacroix traded Scott Young and Mike Ricci. Mike Keane signed with the Rangers a month before Sakic did as well.

It might not have been all rosy financially in the moment in Colorado and maybe the players had a sense of that. At least with the Rangers, there'd be a bigger budget. Naturally with hindsight we know that they didn't necessarily spend it well.
 

WarriorofTime

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You followed those teams more than I did obviously. I always figured Sharp was more impactful because you need a 2nd line center more than a 2nd line winger. Also, did Hossa significantly outscore Sharp during their Chicago years? I thought their numbers were close. BTW, I'm not saying Sharp's jersey should be retired either.

Hossa scored 415 points in 534 games in Chicago. That's not that impressive nor did he play there long enough to have his jersey retired IMO. They could have at least waited until they retired other numbers from those teams like Kane, Toews, Keith. Seemed premature to put Hossa up there so soon before the others, even if he retired first.
Sharp was primarily a wing. He played center during the 2010 playoffs. In 2013, Michal Handzus was the center on the Kane line at even strength and in 2015 it was Brad Richards.

Hossa’s two way play was miles more important than Sharp’s but their scoring was comparable those seasons.
 
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GMR

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Sharp was primarily a wing. He played center during the 2010 playoffs. In 2013, Michal Handzus was the center on the Kane line at even strength and in 2015 it was Brad Richards.

Hossa’s two way play was miles more important than Sharp’s but their scoring was comparable those seasons.
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WingsFan95

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I can remember that year. Fedorov still played in the Olympics in Nagano. He did not have an NHL contract at that time. He got it shortly after that. If I recall the offer sheet from Carolina meant Detroit got 5 1st round picks. In my personal opinion, as great as Fedorov was to the success of that team, especially in the playoffs, Detroit was better off had he gone to Carolina. Offer sheets were crazy back then, just look at Chris Gratton at the same time. I don't think Detroit wins the Cup without Fedorov in 1998, but all they needed was a trade deadline acquisition and I think they would have been fine. By 2002 when the won their other one sure Fedorov is a big part of it but by then they'd have 4 of the 5 first round picks and no doubt those players help them win. I remember Scotty Bowman saying that they wanted to win now, and that in the future he wasn't going to be there anyways. So that's why they matched the offer. I guess the results speak for themselves though with the two Cups afterwards.
You have to wonder though with the upsets to the Ducks, Flames and Oilers a constant expectations to make it far. Perhaps in a way losing in 98 means they pick it up in another year.
We cannot really play a good what if game, Fedorov change the draft pick Carolina got for worst one logically but:

Canes first draft in

1999: Dave Tanabe
2000: Tomas Kurka
2001: Igor Knyazev
2002: Cam Ward
2003: Eric Staal

Outside the magic 2003 draft (and you can still end up picking some Kostityn), that era average first round pick value was not that high, I did not know the first 3 one, Cam Ward obviously but goaltender are a bit of a fluke and it is never certain another organisation would have drafted them.

It is likely that Detroit do not draft any of those player, having Fedorov can change the Canes draft position, outside the very top teams draft other players than other teams would have, etc... but that just show how little they could have got for Fedorov (assuming the Canes are higher in the standing), not worth loosing a single cup.

A franchise dream to pick-up a single Fedorov level player with 5 first round draft pick in the late 90s-early 00s.
Another way to look at this is Detroit using those picks in a trade. The 98 team probably doesn't win because of losing both Konstantinov and Fedorov plus how close the Stars and even Blues series were. But I'd still expect them to win one in the 99-02 period and hell less we forget 03-06 consecutive upsets by Cup Finalist (who themselves all lost in 7 games) I felt the team was somewhat cursed and paying the karma queen for those 3 Cups.
People forget that Sakic of all people was nearly a New York Ranger in the summer of 1997. The Avs had to match the offer the Rangers had for him. I don't know what Sakic was thinking, because that would have been disastrous going to NYR. They were a colossal mess post-1997. But he almost did. And Fedorov almost became a Cane. Is he a HHOFer if he does this or is he considered a marginal one?
Funny enough I think Sakic on the Rangers is a pretty big boost for them. The biggest problem with those New York teams was trying to buy a title and therefore signing big names without any thought going into chemistry. I'm not looking it up but I think 2003 the names on that roster were rather ludicrous, Fleury, Lindros, both Bures I think and still the old guard. Anywho Sakic was signed to replace Messier and to be frank that would have been a noticeable upgrade for Gretz to work with, at least for the 97-98 season which yeah Detroit but if that Rangers team makes say the Conference Final it's a whole other domino effect and hell maybe Gretz even plays 99-00 if he has a Cup contending team (the 9 goals is a punchline but Wayne wasn't exactly trash on a pretty bad team).
The ugliest part of that whole thing was that Fedorov signed the offer sheet from Ilitch’s personal enemy while Mike was on a life support machine after his second (third?) open heart surgery. That’s why his number will never be retired in Detroit. And to be honest it shouldn’t be because of that.
The Wings organization has a noticeably high bar for number retirements. I think Datsyuk and Zetterberg are probably going to have theirs retired with only 1 Cup as starters (Datsyuk was nowhere near a contributor in 2002) because they have the individual accolades and never played for another NHL franchise. Zetterberg being a Captain and Smythe winner makes his case marginally better despite Datsyuk having the better numbers and Selke/Byng trophies but I'm betting both are indeed retired. Fedorov's chances flew out the window when he went to the Ducks for a payday. It's certainly arguable the Wings don't win either of the 97-98 Cups without Fedorov but not overwhelmingly so as not only were they deep teams but you assume they have some compensation for losing him. That said I think he's closer to Shanahan in terms of his Wings career as I think too often people forget Brendan who finished with way more goals and points was also on those 3 Cup winning teams and nobody brings up his jersey.
 

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