Why are there no good goalies anymore?

[Melrose Munch]

That's a pretty random comment. I'm not sure that that's true. They all move better than Joseph certainly. Joseph wasn't a very good skater and he wasn't good with his crease movement (which wasn't super uncommon at the time, to be fair). CuJo was a battler more than a scientist for me. So, I get why he's a fan favorite...he doesn't quit on pucks, he's "fun" to watch...but the more I go back and watch, the less impressed I am with his process.

In messy situations, Joseph might provide some advantage over the field in his day - I mean, he did. In more structured situations, I think he's less reliable than some others.

I don't think it's random imo. Vasy had better years but he also had much worse years than Joseph. Hellebuck was one year better than Cujo (when he won the Vezina).

 

[JianYang]

I don't think it's random imo. Vasy had better years but he also had much worse years than Joseph. Hellebuck was one year better than Cujo (when he won the Vezina).

Cujo was the kind of goalie that you didn't really fear him in a favourite role, but you definitely took notice if you had to face him if he was in an underdog role.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Imagine saying CuJo is better than Vasilevskiy. lol.

 

[WingsFan95]

Like with Maholmes in the NFL, I absolutely think we're past the point of truly generational talents coming up to dominate. I reference Maholmes because of the rabid hype surrounding him which in my opinion is unwarranted.

When it comes to goaltenders, Roy and Hasek are simply untouchable over an extended period. Curtis Joseph, Ron Hextall, Brodeur, Beezer are also arguably more valuable in their heydey with a higher peak than pretty much anyone playing today.

The top guys are great goaltenders in their own right, but Bobrovsky in spurts is the only guy I'd compare to Roy/Hasek and not for several years but just a few.

Imagine saying CuJo is better than Vasilevskiy. lol.

Without a doubt actually. AV is what happens when you put a top goaltender behind a great team in a diluted league. I take Joseph in his prime over AV behind the same team 99 out of 100.

 

[Michael Farkas]

No chance. This is, again, where talent evaluation comes into play hard. You have to be able to evaluate the goalie in order to know which ones are a product of their team and which ones are needle movers. Vasilevskiy is an elite talent.

Re: "Bobrovsky in spurts" - you've effectively highlighted the nature of goaltending today. Bear of Bad News said in the first response, the talent differential between, say, the 6th best goalie in the league and 24th best goalie in the league is quite narrow. Especially compared to 20 or 30 years ago. The difference is really the consistency in which you can bring that top talent to the forefront. That's why you want to lean towards guys like Lundqvist, Price, Vasilevskiy, etc. because they are really good talents, but they're also very consistent. Even though Bobrovsky, Fleury, etc. might have better technical skills than most, how often are they able to deliver 100% of their talent? Some might say: not enough.

 

[Boxscore]

I think there are some great goalies today, including a couple that will likely go down as legends (Vasilevskiy, Shesterkin, etc.) The difference being the way goalies are deployed these days. Gone are the days where top goalies play 72-78 games a year. There are no Mike Keenan led Grant Fuhr's in the league today. Also, the 3-on-3 OT, shootouts, and less obstruction generate added offense.

Another thing to consider is the narrative the NHL wants to push is "offense, offense, offense." I don't think the NHL media swoons over goaltenders the way they have in the past.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Imagine saying CuJo is better than Vasilevskiy. lol.

Stop awards hunting. Vasilevskiy is the 3rd best goalie in the league by default. Everyone behind him is 5 steps behind. Hellebyuck and maybe Bobrovsky are better.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Stop awards hunting. Vasilevskiy is the 3rd best goalie in the league by default. Everyone behind him is 5 steps behind. Hellebyuck and maybe Bobrovsky are better.

How is it awards hunting? For this year sure I take those guys but Vasi is the best goaltender of the generation imo.

 

[Melrose Munch]

How is it awards hunting?

You're saying he's better because of the Cups and Vezina. That's the only reason to say he is better. The careers are pretty much the same at best.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

The reasons have been listed already but it's possible it's also just chance that after Vasi and Helley some of the guys with high peaks like the New York guys couldn't be consistent. The previous generation with Lundquist, Price, Rinne, Quick, Rask, etc. isn't the best ever but at least there's a handful of staples.

 

[The Panther]

In my limited-exposure opinion, Connor Hellebuyck is the best goaltender in the NHL right now.

Andrei Vasilevskiy is (was?) great of course, but I sort of consider him the Martin Brodeur of the current era. That is, I think his deep and dominant team made him look considerably better than he was/is. Should still be in his prime, but he seems subpar this year just as his club is losing its power.

As to this era's goalies, it's of course not the case that "there are no good goalies anymore". It's more the case that there are more quality and more consistently good goalies today than before. Thus, individuals don't stand out as much.

I was thinking about this after the Oilers-Penguins game yesterday. Yes, the Penguins totally sucked in the game and will miss the playoffs, but they still have a clutch of three (at least) Hall of Famers. It was basically a shut-out for Edmonton, except for one fluky goal for Pittsburgh where the puck somehow skipped completely over the top of the net and landed on Malkin's stick on the goal-line. Anyway, the Oilers' goalie was Calvin Pickard, basically a career AHL-guy who has never been able to hold down an NHL job since he was drafted 14 years ago. Yet he was completely dominant, making miracle saves, and all but earning a shut-out.

Speaking of Pittsburgh, we also pause to remember that they won the frickin' Stanley Cup with Matt Murray (!) in net.

I guess the question is: Do Matt Murray and Calvin Pickard kind of suck, or are average-looking goalies actually really good nowadays, and also is maybe the difference between Murray / Pickard and Vasilevskiy not as big as it would seem?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Calvin Pickard was not challenged last night. Like, hardly at all. The Penguins clearly felt the weight of their era-ending loss to Calgary 23 hours prior and played the empty sac card last night. Hell, even the penalty shot - taken by a player who has fewer goals than our goalie this year - missed the net entirely.

Anywho...Pickard is a fringe goalie. He's light on skill, he's light on movement, a lot of holes. Matt Murray is good positionally. Isn't built for the long haul and had a lot of injuries troubles as a result. Extremely weak glove hand. A blocking type goalie that requires a good deal of insulation to be effective.

The gap between those two guys and Vasilevsky is massive. I guess it's like the difference between Leon Draisaitl and Warren Foegele down to Adam Erne for Pickard...by way of analogy.

 

[The Panther]

The gap between those two guys and Vasilevsky is massive. I guess it's like the difference between Leon Draisaitl and Warren Foegele down to Adam Erne for Pickard...by way of analogy.

The gap between them is certainly there (of course), but in my opinion it's not as big as people conventionally think. It's another way of saying that I don't think having a super-elite goalie is that important anymore.

Like, taking Pickard / Murray / Vasilevskiy's equivalents from, say, 25 years ago, I think the difference between them would have been enormous. But nowadays, it's not that big.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't think many would contend with that notion. That's why so many random goalies end up high in stats and/or Cup Finals these days. The difference between the 6th best goalie and the 24th best goalie has never been smaller (that is, over the last 10-15 years).