Super Cake
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- Jun 24, 2013
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all of this here. good postNot going to bother to read through the thread, because the answer is pretty obvious and has probably been stated over and over again, but yes, it's because they had a ridiculous head start advantage given to them along with other numerous breaks by the league to help establish the market there, for money reasons.
They are an artificial frankenteam created out of league greed to expand and immediately succeed in expanding in a market notoriously weak in supporting professional sports teams.
Oh, and the gaudy lounge-acts they put on during pregame, in the spirit of las vegas over-the-top tackiness, along with the seemingly trump-designed gold-plated shiny helmets, just add to the overall ridiculousness of their brand.
[MOD] and... That's why.
Expansion draft rules being revised before the next round of expansion after not expanding for over 15 years. When else where they going to do it... when they weren't looking at expanding?It's pretty simple really: the VGK were given favorable expansion draft rules that were revised right before they started operations by "coincidence". Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly knows little about hockey and the NHL specifically. It was easy for people to jump on the bandwagon because the expansion team went to a Cup final in its first year of existence. Thankfully they didn't win it, because that would have damaged the credibility of a sports league that has struggled to be more widely accepted in the U.S. thanks to a commissioner who would go to lengths many of us would find degrading to get more American dollars.
The real test of this team's fanbase will come when the team inevitably comes back down to earth and has to go through a rough patch for the first time since coming into the league. If the fans keep coming to VGK games through a bad period, then I'm perfectly willing to revise my opinion about the level of support they get. I think, however, that once the team starts to struggle, attendance will drop, and we will see another situation similar to the Coyotes except the VGK are more likely to move once the bottom drops out.
There is a reason that up until recently no major pro league in North America had granted Vegas a team. Sure, the Raiders are coming, but they've bounced around so many times now that it's become a joke. If Los Angeles can lose two NFL franchises (and we'll see what happens with the Rams and Chargers down the road), then a city like Vegas can certainly lose one, especially once attendance sags as the team struggles.
Even though they had some success right away, I understand why some people may be jealous of their accomplishments.
For me, I'm more impressed that they have yet to miss the playoffs.
Beard got off to a really bad start because his roster was gutted and some players were unimpressed and left. I think he would have struggled a lot more than other places he has been.Would UNLV bball been winners if Chris Beard not left UNLV? Of course UNLV would not be able to keep a coach once the team started to be a winner but maybe it would be a place where up and coming coaches would like to come here and move on after taking UNLV deep into the tournament.
The correct question is: Why revise the expansion draft rules at all? Simple answer: Bettman wanted to ensure that the VGK would be competitive coming out of the gate, because fickle fans won't pay to see games played by a usual expansion team (re: all other expansion teams before Vegas). It is part of his obsession with making the NHL grow in the U.S. by putting another team in a city with absolutely no history of hockey support in the desert. Clearly, he didn't learn a goddamn thing from what happened with Arizona.Expansion draft rules being revised before the next round of expansion after not expanding for over 15 years. When else where they going to do it... when they weren't looking at expanding?
The correct question is: Why revise the expansion draft rules at all? Simple answer: Bettman wanted to ensure that the VGK would be competitive coming out of the gate, because fickle fans won't pay to see games played by a usual expansion team (re: all other expansion teams before Vegas). It is part of his obsession with making the NHL grow in the U.S. by putting another team in a city with absolutely no history of hockey support in the desert. Clearly, he didn't learn a goddamn thing from what happened with Arizona.
If it was only Seattle being given a team, that would have made more sense since that city already supports a hockey team (Thunderbirds) and have an arena that wasn't being used fully thanks to the departure of the Sonics over a decade ago. Expanding into yet another desert city and one that is built mainly on gambler tourism is a pretty stupid move, especially considering that no other major pro league had given them a team prior to this.
Here are my thoughts about the Vegas Golden Knights (and I'm not from Las Vegas nor a regular fan)
1. When you pay as much as Bill Foley did for the Knights, you should get a decent goaltender and some good forwards and defensemen.
2. Don't blame the Knights for getting players like Shea Theodore, MA Fleury, Smith, Marchessault, etc. Blame the dummy GM's who did 'side deals' to protect other players in their organization.
3. The Golden Knights have a smart President and GM, a smart coach and good pro scouting. It's one of the reasons the Knights are where they are today.
4. The Golden Knights have an owner who likes to go big all the time. Sometimes that 's good (see today and the past 4 seasons) but.....
5. Going 'big' all the time will catch up to you. Vegas relies on a lot of players who aren't getting younger - it's an older core. Yes, there are younger players getting inserted into the lineup, but that's probably why 'win now' makes sense. Stone, Pacioretty, Fleury, etc. are either old or getting older and slower. Pietrangelo is 31. Fleury is 36. Stone is 29. Pacioretty is 32. McNabb is 30 . Martinez is a UFA, and is 33. My point is: it's one thing to swing for the fences and aggressively trade for guys like Stone, Pacioretty or signing Pietrangelo, but in a flat cap era...and if those guys slow down further, that window is going to shrink and the benefits of expansion and taking advantage of gullible NHL GM's like Dale Tallon will fade away as well.
6. Bet some Vegas fans wish they held on to Nick Suzuki. Suzuki is only going to get better. Pacioretty is only getting older. He's 32 now and his contract ends in two years....with a $7M cap hit in a flat cap era.
7. I am a Canucks fan. We are stuck with players taking up cap space (Loui Eriksson is the poster child here) who have gotten old and can't play anymore. I am not saying Pietrangelo will turn out that way (he won't) but what happens when he is 37 with an $8.8 M cap hit in a flat cap era? How about when he is 35 with an $8.8 M cap hit? Better win a Cup, because if the result this year is the same as next year and Pietrangelo slows down....not a good scenario for Vegas.
8. Notice that Vegas seems to slow down as it goes deeper into the playoffs? Have a look at the age of the players I have listed above. They won't be getting younger or faster. And that Cap is not going to look good. Mark Stone will be 35 when his contract ends with a $9.5M cap hit. I get why he was acquired as Vegas needed his scoring (despite the fact he didn't score much in the post season when Vegas needed him). What happens when he is 32 or 33 years old and Vegas is stuck with that massive cap hit? How do they unload it? Will he be worth $9.5 M in 2 years from now? The Knights better win the Cup while he is still young. Same goes for Pietrangelo.
9. Wait you say, the young kids will come in to replace the expensive older guys right? The Athletic ranked Vegas #24 in organizational depth of young players. Did you see a lot of drafted players on the Knights roster during the playoffs? I saw Nicholas Hague...
10 Finally - you think this will last forever with the Knights being this amazing team? Everyone thought San Jose would be great and win the Cup...all they needed was Erik Karlsson. Read this from NBC Sports on the problems with the San Jose Sharks:
"The trio of Brent Burns, Erik Karlsson, and Marc-Edouard Vlasic carries a combined $26.5 million cap hit. To put things mildly, the Sharks aren’t getting their money’s worth in the present, and the future doesn’t look great.
Burns’ $8M AAV runs through 2024-25, and he’s already 36. Vlasic, 34, is on the books through 2025-26. Karlsson is 30, and his $11.5M albatross doesn’t expire until after 2026-27."
3-4 years ago, San Jose looked like they were on the brink. They went out and make the big deals to pick up Karlsson and traded for Evander Kane, who they later signed for $49M over seven years. Star-studded roster, right? Aging roster with bad goaltending.
So - here's what I am saying. I respect Vegas. I think it's great that they were smart to get good players and fool some dumb GMs. They went to the Finals! They then fired Gerard Gallant a year and a half later. They wanted to go 'big'. They traded Suzuki to get Pacioretty. They signed Lehner. They unloaded Nate Schmidt. They got Alex P and signed him long term, for big bucks at his age.
Ask San Jose how they are doing.
Chaputonyou
The correct question is: Why revise the expansion draft rules at all? Simple answer: Bettman wanted to ensure that the VGK would be competitive coming out of the gate, because fickle fans won't pay to see games played by a usual expansion team (re: all other expansion teams before Vegas).
Or it could mean that the VGK ownership are taking advantage of their team's success to increase their gate revenue. It's not hard when you have a team that has made the playoffs every year since joining the league. What remains to be seen if if that will come back to bite them in the ass when the team's records begin to sag (re: miss playoffs).Our ticket prices have gone up dramatically since the beginning and they keep selling. Surely that’s some evidence of support.
Yeah that was pretty funny. In addition to not knowing anything about the Wranglers, this is a somewhat different topic but I’ll bet he has no idea we added the Henderson Silver Knights. Probably doesn’t even know where Henderson is or that it’s so close to Vegas.