Who's the most overrated player in the NHL

[K Fleur]

Malkin really showed up in the 1st round...

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[rel-uh-vuh nt]

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1.
bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand; pertinent:
a relevant remark.



Also doesn't that comment make you a point monger?

 

[Crocoduck]

RELEVANT

rel-e-vant



[rel-uh-vuh nt]

Spell Syllables


adjective
1.
bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand; pertinent:
a relevant remark.

Also doesn't that comment make you a point monger?

Well played! Haha this guy has some of the most cringe worthy posts around.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

heres a thought, every player is both overrated and underrated since everyone rates everyone differently.

/thread.

 

[Captain Serious 19]

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[rel-uh-vuh nt]

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adjective
1.
bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand; pertinent:
a relevant remark.



Also doesn't that comment make you a point monger?

Yep. Guilty of being a point monger right there. Don't really see how no other NHL players that have been playing poorly, (not talking about 71), are not talked about on this thread.

 

[K Fleur]

Yep. Guilty of being a point monger right there. Don't really see how no other NHL players that have been playing poorly, (not talking about 71), are not talked about on this thread.

Dude you've kept this thread going like an extra 15 pages with all of the claims you've made that have no backing.

This thread would probably be forgotten on the 2nd or 3rd page of the main board if you had never posted in here.

 

[67Leafs67]

14 points in a shutdown center role in 2013 going against: Parise, Datsyuk and Zetterberg at times, Kopitar, Krecji and Bergeron. He won every individual matchup in that 2013 cup run. Keep detracting from his overall play, though. Malkin played the same Bruins team and did not impact the series because he was not scoring. Have to play both ways in the NHL these days. You are wrong but that is okay.

Thanks for proving my point: As I said "to a Hawks fan Toews can do nothing wrong". If he plays bad offensively, its ok because he was a shutdown center the entire series. Yet if Crosby, or Malkin, or a player you stereotype as a purely offensive player has a bad offensive series, they couldn't possibly have been making any sort of defensive contributions. Also, you can't seriously say a single player "won" a matchup. If anything, it's forwards vs defense as the most important matchups, so it was Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson doing most of the "shutdown" work against Parise, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kopitar, Krjeci, and Bergeron. Not saying Toews wasn't significant, but he was only the 3rd (if even at times, as he played with two way guys like Hossa and Sharp) most significant defensive player on the ice, an yet was generally outperformed by all these players offensively.

 

[Captain Serious 19]

Thanks for proving my point: As I said "to a Hawks fan Toews can do nothing wrong". If he plays bad offensively, its ok because he was a shutdown center the entire series. Yet if Crosby, or Malkin, or a player you stereotype as a purely offensive player has a bad offensive series, they couldn't possibly have been making any sort of defensive contributions. Also, you can't seriously say a single player "won" a matchup. If anything, it's forwards vs defense as the most important matchups, so it was Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson doing most of the "shutdown" work against Parise, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kopitar, Krjeci, and Bergeron. Not saying Toews wasn't significant, but he was only the 3rd (if even at times, as he played with two way guys like Hossa and Sharp) most significant defensive player on the ice, an yet was generally outperformed by all these players offensively.

Those players did not outperform Toews in their matchups against him.

 

[67Leafs67]

Sure, just feed words I never said into my mouth and avoid the whole point of my post by posting your own opinion that has zero factual basis or backing in it...

 

[discordant concord]

I think Daniel Sedin is up there

 

[aufheben]

14 points in a shutdown center role in 2013 going against: Parise, Datsyuk and Zetterberg at times, Kopitar, Krecji and Bergeron. He won every individual matchup in that 2013 cup run. Keep detracting from his overall play, though. Malkin played the same Bruins team and did not impact the series because he was not scoring. Have to play both ways in the NHL these days. You are wrong but that is okay.

Do you have facts to back that up? The Blackhawks winning those series isn't an individual accomplishment.

Forwards Toews spent the most time against in the 2013 SCF, 5-on-5 production:

Krejci: 5 points 6 games
Lucic: 5 points 6 games
Horton: 2 points 6 games

 

[Captain Serious 19]

Sure, just feed words I never said into my mouth and avoid the whole point of my post by posting your own opinion that has zero factual basis or backing in it...

You said he was generally outperformed by his matchups in 2013 offensively...

Round 1: Toews 2 points and a +1 Parise: 1 point and a -7
Round 2: Toews: 4 points and a -3 Zetterberg: 4 points and a +- of 0
Datsyuk: 2 points and a +- of 0
Round 3: Toews: 3 points and a +6 Kopitar: 2 points and a -3
Round 4: Toews: 5 points and a +5 Krejci: 5 points and a -1
Bergeron:4 points and a -2

He was better than his matchup in every round

 

[Captain Serious 19]

Do you have facts to back that up? The Blackhawks winning those series isn't an individual accomplishment.

Forwards Toews spent the most time against in the 2013 SCF, 5-on-5 production:

Krejci: 5 points 6 games
Lucic: 5 points 6 games
Horton: 2 points 6 games

Yes I just posted the numbers against his counterpart in every series.

 

[aufheben]

You said he was generally outperformed by his matchups in 2013 offensively...

Round 1: Toews 2 points and a +1 Parise: 1 point and a -7
Round 2: Toews: 4 points and a -3 Zetterberg: 4 points and a +- of 0
Datsyuk: 2 points and a +- of 0
Round 3: Toews: 3 points and a +6 Kopitar: 2 points and a -3
Round 4: Toews: 5 points and a +5 Krejci: 5 points and a -1
Bergeron:4 points and a -2

He was better than his matchup in every round

Toews had 1 5-on-5 point in 7 games against Detroit. Special teams aren't matchups.

 

[Captain Serious 19]

Toews had 1 5-on-5 point in 7 games against Detroit. Special teams aren't matchups.

Okay, the stats still prove he was not beaten offesnsively in his matchups in the 2013 playoffs by a wide margin like the poster inferred.

 

[Old Gregg]

Okay, the stats still prove he was not beaten offesnsively in his matchups in the 2013 playoffs by a wide margin like the poster inferred.

Parise is a winger....

 

[Captain Serious 19]

Parise is a winger....

Okay, Mikko Koivu 0 points and a -6.

 

[K Fleur]

Okay, Mikko Koivu 0 points and a -6.

Point monger

 

[Machinehead]

People are forgetting again that overrated =/= not a great player.

Toews is a great player and I do believe he's overrated. Not the most overrated though.

 

[67Leafs67]

I never said "by a wide margin", I said "in general". Maybe I was wrong in a way, but, points does not equal offensive contribution (especially when your team is stacked), and only 3 of his points were goals. In total, all 4 centres he matched up against all made a larger % of contribution offensively to their teams as a whole than Toews did to the Blackhawks, but whatever. Obviously Toews very limited offensive success (if you can call it that) didn't have to do with the fact that he gets to play with Hossa, Sharp, and Kane, as well a defenseman like Keith who pumps in 11 assists. The funny thing is that the whole point of my original argument was that Toews has had bad playoff series in the past as well, yet you just try to say that Toews is good in those playoffs because other centers were worse...

But anyways, this has gotten so far from my original point and the original point of the thread, I'm not even going to bother arguing further.

 

[PWJunior]

Point monger

LOL, well done. Bravo!

 

[TopShelfYzerman]

You said he was generally outperformed by his matchups in 2013 offensively...

Round 1: Toews 2 points and a +1 Parise: 1 point and a -7
Round 2: Toews: 4 points and a -3 Zetterberg: 4 points and a +- of 0
Datsyuk: 2 points and a +- of 0
Round 3: Toews: 3 points and a +6 Kopitar: 2 points and a -3
Round 4: Toews: 5 points and a +5 Krejci: 5 points and a -1
Bergeron:4 points and a -2

He was better than his matchup in every round

I havent checked the numbers, im assuming there is some error if i did check, but based on what i see, how is Toews numbers better than Zetterbergs? Since you claim he was better in all series against his most faced center in each series

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

14 points in a shutdown center role in 2013 going against: Parise, Datsyuk and Zetterberg at times, Kopitar, Krecji and Bergeron. He won every individual matchup in that 2013 cup run. Keep detracting from his overall play, though. Malkin played the same Bruins team and did not impact the series because he was not scoring. Have to play both ways in the NHL these days. You are wrong but that is okay.

He got absolutely owned by Zetterberg, Babcock screwed that up (or great work by Q though it doesn't really explain Game 6 from Babs) by not chasing it more. It has been posted several times, but Toews' career numbers against Zetterberg are abysmal compared to what he normally does. He loses that matchup decisively. Billy Budd posted it in another thread where someone called Toews the best matchup center which he is not because Bergeron laughably takes that one.

A lot of guys play both ways. It also always hurts that the difference in his takeaways and giveaways have been in the past generated by a massive difference in the United Center scorer who hands out takeaways like candy.

Toews is a great player, just not quite as good as you seem to be driving at and there are plenty of areas to chew on if you're going to anoint him in the Top 3 in the NHL, especially when he slots in 3rd to a ton of people on his own team.

Still not close to the most overrated player though in my opinion.

 

[GaryU]

How unusual this thread turns into yet another 'Toews is no good' thread....zzzzzzzz.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think Daniel Sedin is up there

How so? The Sedins have arguably been underrated their entire career, constantly being cited as too soft or lacking of leadership. This past season, Daniel put up 76 points (8th in the league) and has been a near PPG player or better since 2006, with the exception of one season.

He's not a goal scorer anymore, but he's nowhere close to being overrated.

 

[The Jesus*]

Shea Weber.