Speculation: Who will we draft with #4?

[613Leafer]

Could we go slightly off the board and take Barzal at 4? He's a smaller, skilled player who can easily develop into a 1C, I feel that most are forgetting that he was suppose to be the #3 Centre in this draft until his injuries and stuff.

I think there's a chance. First 16 games of the season before his injury weren't anything special (18 points).

But since then he's had 39 points in 28 regular season games, 8 points in 6 playoff games, and 12 points in 7 U18 games. Gotta factor in his relatively weak linemates when looking at those numbers too.

He's also not really small at this point. 6'0 ~175-180lbs before the draft is pretty decent. He's much faster than Strome, bigger than Marner, smart, skilled, and has big pedigree having previously been considered a potential top 2-3 pick for this draft.

I doubt we take him, but it's closer than a lot of people think IMO, and at least worth discussing (as would be trading down 2 spots to get him).

 

[LaPlante94]

In today's NHL, speed is more important than size. Tampa is a great example of this. Not saying that having size in your lineup isn't important, but its not what it once was. Big guys who can't skate aren't of much use these days.

Not true at all. I'm not gonna say that speed isn't important because it's nice to have, but it's not as important as some think. Most teams play a defensive system now and that's why you see the trap being used so much. A NHL rink isn't very wide and the neutral zone isn't that big either. I'll take guys who are harder to knock off the puck and more agile to help control possession in the offensive zone over a guy with speed any day.

 

[Mess]

Exactly. We need skill at every position. Regardless of whether we have Nylander, Brown, etc. we just need to take the best player possible. If we end up with some smaller guys like Marner, Nylander and Kadri in our top-six then we`ll make some trades or draft decisions to compliment them with bigger players.

Tampa has a line with Johnson (5`9), Kucherov (5`11), and Palat (5`11) and they have been awesome. None of those guys weight very much either before someone brings-up -- and rightly so -- the weight factor. **** size.

Keep in mind TB is using top 5 picks to take Stamkos and Hedman key core players and then UFA free wallet signing Johnson, 7th round Palat, late 2nd rounder Kucherov as unplanned and a benefit of finding NHL talent outside the 1st round.

All NHL teams passed 3 times on Tyler Johnson not proving he was top 5 draft pick and size irrelevant as it certainly factored in significantly on his path to the NHL.

Also how effective would TB 2nd line be if they were Lightnings top line and Stamkos didn't exist?. Top defensive coverage goes against the top line. So trying to build/model the TB 2nd line as another teams top line using them as an example of success does need to be viewed big picture. IMO

 

[Joey Hoser]

Trade down a couple spots and swing a deal or two to end up with Barzal and Crouse.

 

[one77]

This week, I'm basically ranking it like

Hanifin
Marner

Strome

Yup. This has been my order for months now. If Arizona ends up picking Hanifin or Marner, we will just draft the other one. Win-win.

 

[Divine]

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to Elliotte Friedman of Rogers Sportsnet, Toronto Maple Leafs ssistant GM Kyle Dubas was asked if the Maple Leafs would consider passing up on Mitch Marner in the draft because they already have smallish forwards like William Nylander and Connor Brown, Dubas disagreed.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-how-playoffs-affect-draft-selection/

30. Will also have more about Toronto next time, but wanted to add this quote from assistant GM Kyle Dubas.

Asked if the Maple Leafs would consider passing up on Mitch Marner in the draft because they already have smallish forwards like William Nylander and Connor Brown, Dubas disagreed.

“Here’s the way I look at it,” he said. “Right now, we aren't good enough to be picky about smaller players. We need as many elite players as we can. If we get into playoffs and are too small, or overwhelmed, it’s easier to trade small for size than draft for size and trade for skill.”

 

[Quares27]

I think the Leafs would absolutely take Strome if he's there at #4. If not i'm leaning towards them picking Marner but maybe that's just cuz I want them to pick him. But everyone has always talked about needing that big, skilled #1C and that is Strome.

 

[MJ65]

I think the Leafs would absolutely take Strome if he's there at #4. If not i'm leaning towards them picking Marner but maybe that's just cuz I want them to pick him. But everyone has always talked about needing that big, skilled #1C and that is Strome.

If you look at this particular pool more of the posters here prefer Marner over Strome (I am not debating who is better)

 

[Beaninfritz]

It has to be Marner/Hanifin imo. Whichever one Arizona doesn't take. I still think Marner > Strome. Strome was the beneficiary for a lot of the season, by playing behind McDavid. When McDavid got injured, and Strome was bumped up to the 1st line, his production dropped a lot.

Yes Strome is bigger, that is for sure. But Marner has a lot of speed to burn. Also, players like St. Louis demonstrate season after season that you don't need to be big to be successful in this league.

It's like Dubas said. You draft skill, then if you get overwhelmed in the size department, then you trade that skill for size. It's much easier to do that, than trade size for skill.

Plus the idea of a line with Nylander/Marner/Brown makes me drool.

edit: I should also add, the average height of an nhl forward is 6'1. Marner's 5'11, so he's not that far off. All he really needs to do is start bulking up, and add another 20 pounds or so to his frame. Strome also needs to add quite a bit of weight for a guy his height. He'd need to be somewhere around 200 lbs., and that's like a 30 pound gain for him. If his skating is already suspect, that added weight won't help him any in that regard.

 

[Fogelhund]

I haven't watched a lot of Strome this season, but I have watched what is on TV of these playoffs... and last nights game in particular was awesome. I can't possibly believe Strome is healthy though, he just doesn't look good... can someone who has watched him this year let me know if this is the way he always plays? Granted he got two points, but he could hardly skate or move.

 

[MJ65]

I believe leafs are going to pick Marner over Strome as pointed out by Dubas when asked by Friedman that you have a similar forward size wise in Nylander but Dubas dismissed the logic

I am not saying that he expressed picking Marner over Strome but to me Size (in Marner's )is not an issue with the management

 

[Stephen]

Plus the idea of a line with Nylander/Marner/Brown makes me drool.

A line like that could be our answer to the TKO line. Then sprinkle in an Auston Matthews, Josh Leivo, JVR or UFA and the top six looks pretty healthy.

 

[Divine]

I haven't watched a lot of Strome this season, but I have watched what is on TV of these playoffs... and last nights game in particular was awesome. I can't possibly believe Strome is healthy though, he just doesn't look good... can someone who has watched him this year let me know if this is the way he always plays? Granted he got two points, but he could hardly skate or move.

Sounds like a 100% healthy Dylan Strome to me... but the Strome fanboys will jump all over the people suggesting he has terrible skating by saying it can be worked at. I mean look at how great Clarkson has become.

This video is of Dylan Strome highlights, and he looks super slow.

 

[080]

Keep in mind TB is using top 5 picks to take Stamkos and Hedman key core players and then UFA free wallet signing Johnson, 7th round Palat, late 2nd rounder Kucherov as unplanned and a benefit of finding NHL talent outside the 1st round.

All NHL teams passed 3 times on Tyler Johnson not proving he was top 5 draft pick and size irrelevant as it certainly factored in significantly on his path to the NHL.

Also how effective would TB 2nd line be if they were Lightnings top line and Stamkos didn't exist?. Top defensive coverage goes against the top line. So trying to build/model the TB 2nd line as another teams top line using them as an example of success does need to be viewed big picture. IMO

Explain the relevance to a small, successful line -- because I can`t find any.

And are you sure that Johnson`s line isn`t getting the top match-up? I`m pretty sure I heard last game that Babcock was focusing on the Johnson-line ahead of Stamkos` line (from the commentators). Though I could be wrong.

 

[Turk Broda]

Not true at all. I'm not gonna say that speed isn't important because it's nice to have, but it's not as important as some think. Most teams play a defensive system now and that's why you see the trap being used so much. A NHL rink isn't very wide and the neutral zone isn't that big either. I'll take guys who are harder to knock off the puck and more agile to help control possession in the offensive zone over a guy with speed any day.

No, you are way off on this. Take a quick look at the teams still in the playoffs and the common denominator is highly skilled, fast teams. The days of the big, physical teams dominating the league are long gone. Jason Allison was hard to knock off the puck. If you are making a case for possession, then there is some merit to that aspect.

 

[MJ65]

It has to be Marner/Hanifin imo. Whichever one Arizona doesn't take. I still think Marner > Strome. Strome was the beneficiary for a lot of the season, by playing behind McDavid. When McDavid got injured, and Strome was bumped up to the 1st line, his production dropped a lot.

Yes Strome is bigger, that is for sure. But Marner has a lot of speed to burn. Also, players like St. Louis demonstrate season after season that you don't need to be big to be successful in this league.

It's like Dubas said. You draft skill, then if you get overwhelmed in the size department, then you trade that skill for size. It's much easier to do that, than trade size for skill.

Plus the idea of a line with Nylander/Marner/Brown makes me drool.

You need a right mix of skill and size and at times a lot of teams spread out offence instead of putting all your skilled players on one line, what you really need is a strong forward to compliment you star players, speaking of Marner, you can not deny his skill set, as he is a very intelligent and a talented hockey player and without question the best forward (after first 2 picks) available. This debate about your 1st line center has to be big is not relevant as even the super stars like Gretzky and Crosby are not big

If Marner is your BPA then he should be selected and look for the size with your later picks or in 2016 / 2017. This rebuilt is going to take few players

You can not pass on Marner, if we are picking a forward

 

[Swayze*]

No, you are way off on this. Take a quick look at the teams still in the playoffs and the common denominator is highly skilled, fast teams. The days of the big, physical teams dominating the league are long gone. Jason Allison was hard to knock off the puck. If you are making a case for possession, then there is some merit to that aspect.

I don't agree

Ducks are Huge
Jets are Huge
Boston was very big and tough - had an off year

You can build a team any number of ways and win.

 

[613Leafer]

No, you are way off on this. Take a quick look at the teams still in the playoffs and the common denominator is highly skilled, fast teams. The days of the big, physical teams dominating the league are long gone. Jason Allison was hard to knock off the puck. If you are making a case for possession, then there is some merit to that aspect.

Every year or two teams start trying to emulate the current SC winner. Anaheim was big, physical, etc. Then Pittsburgh/Detroit were highly skilled, then Boston was big, physical, etc, Chicago/LA both won twice (with Chicago arguably being more skilled and LA being bigger).

Just gotta focus on bringing in the best players possible. Skill, hockey IQ, and either very good skating or size. Im happy getting a smaller speedy Giroux type of centre or a bigger slower Getzlaf type of centre, as long as we're getting the guy with the best chance to become an elite player.

 

[Stats01]

Yeah I think Marner will be a Leaf, like Dubas said you can't be picky in the Leafs situation, if Marner is their guy size shouldn't be a talking point. You take the BPA.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You need a right mix of skill and size and at times a lot of teams spread out offence instead of putting all your skilled players on one line, what you really need is a strong forward to compliment you star players, speaking of Marner, you can not deny his skill set, as he is a very intelligent and a talented hockey player and without question the best forward (after first 2 picks) available. This debate about your 1st line center has to be big is not relevant as even the super stars like Gretzky and Crosby are not big

If Marner is your BPA then he should be selected and look for the size with your later picks or in 2016 / 2017. This rebuilt is going to take few players

You can not pass on Marner, if we are picking a forward

If we got Marner, we definitely would need to get at least one larger winger for him. JVR-Marner-Matthews?

 

[Stats01]

Sounds like a 100% healthy Dylan Strome to me... but the Strome fanboys will jump all over the people suggesting he has terrible skating by saying it can be worked at. I mean look at how great Clarkson has become.

This video is of Dylan Strome highlights, and he looks super slow.

I'm glad you put a sarcastic face there because I was about to rip you a new one..comparing Strome to Clarkson...really. I laugh..yes let's look at a video of a speedy Marner and compare that to Strome who has 3-4 inches on him. Of course he's going to look slower..Strome is by no means a speedster but to say he's slow is hilarious.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

No, you are way off on this. Take a quick look at the teams still in the playoffs and the common denominator is highly skilled, fast teams. The days of the big, physical teams dominating the league are long gone. Jason Allison was hard to knock off the puck. If you are making a case for possession, then there is some merit to that aspect.

It's funny because Interactif likes to use Chi and L.A. to prove the days of the big dominating players are still among us. But aside for Kopitar and Carter for L.A. and Toews (who is 6'2). Where are the other big dominating players? Are Gaborik, Brown, Toffoli, Kane, Sharp, Hossa etc. who he's talking about?

See size is important. And a big skilled #1 would be great, but like Dubas said, we are in no place to pick that over the BPA. Next year the Leafs are probably a bottom 5 team. Brown and especiallly Matthews are shaping up to be big, fast, skilled centers who can be that #1 for you.

If we got Marner, we definitely would need to get at least one larger winger for him. JVR-Marner-Matthews?

Although I want JVR traded

xxxx- Matthews-Nylander
JVR-Marner-Brown

 

[LeafsNation75]

If the Leafs do want Marner more compared to Strome or Hanifin and if it's true that Arizona wants him because of his connection with Max Domi, is that report out there hoping the Leafs will give them something to trade up for 3rd overall or is Arizona bluffing and they really want Hanifin?

 

[Stand Witness]

If the Leafs do want Marner more compared to Strome or Hanifin and if it's true that Arizona wants him because of his connection with Max Domi, is that report out there hoping the Leafs will give them something to trade up for 3rd overall or is Arizona bluffing and they really want Hanifin?

We wont trade up. If our guy is picked at 3 we take our 2nd guy at 4.