Speculation: Who will we draft with #4? Part II

[Purity*]

I agree with that. This is why it's critically important for the Leafs to stock up on as many picks as possible, so they can draft for the home run skill players, draft the sleeper skill guys and also go fishing for the bigger body foot soldiers. In essence, we need a lot of everything, so we need to be squeezing out an extra 1/3 or 2/3 of a draft class every single year.

There's been some damn good power forwards who have been drafted with later picks.

 

[Stephen]

There's been some damn good power forwards who have been drafted with later picks.

Crazy to think Getzlaf was picked 19th while his Hall of Fame friend Corey Perry was picked 28th...

 

[richardn]

Strome just isn't that good people. Wait till next year when McDavid is gone and he doesn't crack 85 points next year in Erie. He's big but super slow and predictable. He is good in tight around the net and dangerous on the PP but not the guy you want to take with the number 4 pick. I bet if you broke down Stromes point production a lot of his points come on the PP. He reminds me so much or Jason Allison and not the Jason Allison in his prime. I would gladly take Barzal, Crouse, Zacha over him and certainly wouldn't even consider him over Marner or Hanifan. Just watch him play he's simply not that good and over rated by inflated point production.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Except I showed that Chicago isn't built for size whatsoever. I ain't ignoring **** all.

Except I have shown you they have been built for size and skill. You just keep on ignoring it. Chicago are not a team of smurfs are they? If you can show me a recent team to win a cup with a team of small skilled smurfs, Then please show me I am wrong. Can you do this?

 

[FlareKnight]

In the end there a lot of guys I'd be fine with us taking. But I'm sticking with the standard trio. Give me one of Marner/Strome/Hanifin and I can walk away from the first part of this draft happy . Is still kind of amazing that we got to the point where we can draft one of these guys. A huge chance to give the system a boost and add what could be another core piece. Well what we need to be one.

 

[New Liskeard]

I would say though that if Mitch Marner turns out to be exactly what he's been advertised to be, you're going to regret not taking him just because you had a Brown or Leipsic in the system.

Take the 1993 draft as an example. That's kind of like passing up on an 18 year old Paul Kariya because you have Nikolai Borschevsky in the system... Tampa didn't do so well taking Chris Gratton.

Yup over 1000 games played and nearly .5ppg average. He was a bust alright. How many cups did Kariya win?

 

[Rare Jewel]

I am sure teams are shaking in their skates when they have to match up against all 6'0 190 lbs of Stamkos. Or maybe it is his skill? http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player-bio/steven-stamkos

You draft for skill. End of story.

If you are drafting for size in the top 5 you might as well just go home as losers already.

Yes you do; And it's a good thing Strome has a lot of that as well.

The one thing I will agree with you on, Prospects we have now should have no bearing on this pick.

 

[Stand Witness]

Yes you do; And it's a good thing Strome has a lot of that as well.

The one thing I will agree with you on, Prospects we have now should have no bearing on this pick.

I'll be completely honest right now. I think Marner is the better player than Strome right now and in the future. I think Marner is the better pick but if we pick Strome it isn't a bad/stretch/wrong pick at 4. I will understand it but I just expect that Strome will need to take some big strides moving forward.

 

[Todd Skill]

Strome just isn't that good people. Wait till next year when McDavid is gone and he doesn't crack 85 points next year in Erie. He's big but super slow and predictable. He is good in tight around the net and dangerous on the PP but not the guy you want to take with the number 4 pick. I bet if you broke down Stromes point production a lot of his points come on the PP. He reminds me so much or Jason Allison and not the Jason Allison in his prime. I would gladly take Barzal, Crouse, Zacha over him and certainly wouldn't even consider him over Marner or Hanifan. Just watch him play he's simply not that good and over rated by inflated point production.

Thanks for this. Stupid me was going by pretty much every scouting board that has him in the top 5, but I can see you've done your research.

 

[Woll Smoth]

Yes you do; And it's a good thing Strome has a lot of that as well.

The one thing I will agree with you on, Prospects we have now should have no bearing on this pick.

What does Strome do better than Marner?

Things change. If RtooDtu wants big and intimidating, Strome has the capability even if he's not that player now.

It's all pretty moot though in my opinion. Projecting development in a general sense is hard enough, if you go down "what-if"-roads of development it all just becomes a jungle.

Strome would have a much easier time learning to be intimidating than Crouse will learning how to develop offense.

Regardless, I don't really see 'intimidation' as the same thing as 'good defence'.

Players don't just develop a mean streak. It would be nice if they did, but a soft, passive perimeter player is more likely to succeed playing to his strengths than to suddenly become a net crashing physical player.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Which supposed lie is this? That Strome is a very skilled player. Most scouts agree he is. He's listed at #4 on CSB's list.

Redline Report's exemplary report card? What tangent are you referring to? I posted about Strome being a pretty good player. If you are going to make an accusation, you should back it up.

Instead of flinging wild accusations and not specifically addressing it. Do you want to start again?

Come on man if you can't understand my post I don't know what to tell you. My post has nothing to do with Strome. I'm not accusing you about what you said about Strome. My post says "Well I'll just have to hope that now you'll stop blatantly lying now when you say "Marner fans" only want him for his skill." Absolutely nothing to do with Strome.

After you made your statement that you think "Marner fans" only see his skill I begin to to tell you about all the small intangibles he brings effectively calling you out for your statement. You then disregard the whole post and start to say things about Strome that I agree with, but had nothing to do with my post.

 

[TimeZone]

Strome just isn't that good people. Wait till next year when McDavid is gone and he doesn't crack 85 points next year in Erie. He's big but super slow and predictable. He is good in tight around the net and dangerous on the PP but not the guy you want to take with the number 4 pick. I bet if you broke down Stromes point production a lot of his points come on the PP. He reminds me so much or Jason Allison and not the Jason Allison in his prime. I would gladly take Barzal, Crouse, Zacha over him and certainly wouldn't even consider him over Marner or Hanifan. Just watch him play he's simply not that good and over rated by inflated point production.

Go to the prospects board and visit his thread. There a breakdown of his numbers on the PP as well as with/without McDavid. His numbers without McDavid are still VERY good.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Strome would've most likely put up 100+ points even without McDavid. Think that was his point pace in the games he played without Connor

There's a reason he's ranked #4 in virtually every list you come across

 

[LeafsNation75]

I know there is that trade rumour out there saying Carolina might trade the 5th pick to Toronto for Phil Kessel, however it is coming from Eklund. Although let's say that's true and it actually happens, would everyone want Marner and Hanifin or would you be ok with Marner and Strome?

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

I know there is that trade rumour out there saying Carolina might trade the 5th pick to Toronto for Phil Kessel, although it is coming from Eklund. Although let's say that's true and it actually happens, would everyone want Marner and Hanifin or would you be ok with Marner and Strome?

marner and hanifin.

if one of marner or hanifin goes to arizona, then i want the remaining player from marner/hanifin group and then pick one if provorov/barzal at #5.

no interest in strome.

 

[Warden of the North]

I know there is that trade rumour out there saying Carolina might trade the 5th pick to Toronto for Phil Kessel, although it is coming from Eklund. Although let's say that's true and it actually happens, would everyone want Marner and Hanifin or would you be ok with Marner and Strome?

See if Buffalo wants to trade #2

 

[Rare Jewel]

What does Strome do better than Marner?

It's not a skills competition.

It's about projecting 3-5 years down the line to what kind of player he could develop into. He's got the skill, body and attitude to be everything you would want in a #1c potentially. Something we've been missing greatly since #13.

Can he fulfil this potential? We'll have to see. But it would a shame if he did and we passed on him.


For me the scouting on report hasn't been finished for Strome. He still has to play Oshawa now and possibly a trip to memorial cup as well. All while possibly having a leg injury. So I want to see how that plays out.

 

[Semantics]

What does Strome do better than Marner?

Reach the cookies on the top shelf. He's the perfect linemate for Phil, I can see why so many here like him.

 

[Woll Smoth]

It's not a skills competition.

It's about projecting 3-5 years down the line to what kind of player he could develop into. He's got the skill, body and attitude to be everything you would want in a #1c potentially. Something we've been missing greatly since #13.

Can he fulfil this potential? We'll have to see. But it would a shame if he did and we passed on him.


For me the scouting on report hasn't been finished for Strome. He still has to play Oshawa now and possibly a trip to memorial cup as well. All while possibly having a leg injury. So I want to see how that plays out.

Agreed with skill and body. I question his attitude and compete level on the ice. I see this as a chance to draft a huge character player with a high compete level and who has too much skill to pass on. I just don't see Strome developing that next gear. Maybe it's my bias from watching the Leafs core too long, but hoping that a player wants to do more than just get by purely on skill will always leave you disappointed. A player like Marner can set the tone for your forwards, lead by example and wear a letter when the time comes.

That is what separates Marner from Strome for me. That's why I'd rather draft Hanifin (who I haven't watched, just going by draft/scouting reports) or Marner. The Leafs are more than a #1 center away from competing, they've got a huge hole in the leadership and compete department, and I don't think Strome will develop into the player to address that.

 

[tokyoite]

It's up to Coyotes
If they select Hanifin, we get Strome
If they select Strome, we get Hanifin

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Come on man if you can't understand my post I don't know what to tell you. My post has nothing to do with Strome. I'm not accusing you about what you said about Strome. My post says "Well I'll just have to hope that now you'll stop blatantly lying now when you say "Marner fans" only want him for his skill." Absolutely nothing to do with Strome.

After you made your statement that you think "Marner fans" only see his skill I begin to to tell you about all the small intangibles he brings effectively calling you out for your statement. You then disregard the whole post and start to say things about Strome that I agree with, but had nothing to do with my post.

I see Marner fans stating Marner is better than Strome and it isn't close. I think this is silly considering Strome is ahead of Marner on Bob Mckenzie's list, ISS, CSB and Future Considerations draft rankings for those that follow these publications.

As for my statement, I stand by it. Contrary to belief, Marner is not in a different league than Strome.

Now either his fans are wrong. Or all the people that assemble the various publications are wrong. You tell me? Marner is better than Strome and its not close?

Most sane fans will agree the margin is thin from 4-6, including Crouse. The only fans that are saying it is not close are the Marner fans. I don't see this from the Strome or Crouse fans. So either Bob Mckenzie's list, ISS, CSB and Future Considerations are all wrong, or Marner's fans are overrating their favourite player. You tell me…

 

[shelf]

Except I have shown you they have been built for size and skill. You just keep on ignoring it. Chicago are not a team of smurfs are they? If you can show me a recent team to win a cup with a team of small skilled smurfs, Then please show me I am wrong. Can you do this?

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/2013-nhl-teams-by-weight-height-and-age.html

Chicago was of the smallest teams when they won the cup in 2013.

 

[Purity*]

Except I have shown you they have been built for size and skill. You just keep on ignoring it. Chicago are not a team of smurfs are they? If you can show me a recent team to win a cup with a team of small skilled smurfs, Then please show me I am wrong. Can you do this?

Once again, average size is 203.7.

According to NHL.com, atleast half of the players you listed are around that weight and under.

Average-sized team.

Are they a team of smurfs? **** no, I never said that. Are they a "big" team? No, they aren't. Did I say that a team full of smurfs can win a cup? No, I didn't. Why do I have to show you that? These arguing tactics get extremely old.

Bam, you're wrong.

 

[Purity*]

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/2013-nhl-teams-by-weight-height-and-age.html

Chicago was of the smallest teams when they won the cup in 2013.

Wow if only I had that link before. Proves my point pretty good. Thank you for providing it.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/2013-nhl-teams-by-weight-height-and-age.html

Chicago was of the smallest teams when they won the cup in 2013.

And by my count these are the players Chicago won their 2 cups. Small? All actual players that were instrumental in them winning. Does this look like a small team?

Chicago

Byfuglien 265
Bickell 233
Bollig 223
Seabrook 218
Handzus 215
Brouwer 213
Rozsival 212
Toews 210
Hossa 210
Stalberg 210
Smith 207
Ladd 205
Hjalmarsson 205
Saad 202
Sopal 201
Sharp 199
Keith 196
Leddy 191
Oduya 190
Bolland 184
Versteeg 183
Kane 181
Shaw 180