Who sat on their hands better….Tambellini or Holland?

Who was the better hand sitter?

  • Steve Tambellini

    Votes: 23 71.9%
  • Ken Holland

    Votes: 6 18.8%
  • Pretty equal

    Votes: 3 9.4%

  • Total voters
    32

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,579
31,616
Calgary
You do realize that negotiations are situational right? Maybe it wasn’t there this year?
I'm sorry but that's not good enough. We're what, 5 years into Holland and we still have to put the likes of Desharnais or Ceci in the top 4. Find a way. He's been given tons of time to find upgrades on defense and while I certainly like the addition of Ekholm, there hasn't been anymore whether via trade, signings, or drafting.
 

brentashton

Registered User
Jan 21, 2018
13,346
18,806
I'm sorry but that's not good enough. We're what, 5 years into Holland and we still have to put the likes of Desharnais or Ceci in the top 4. Find a way. He's been given tons of time to find upgrades on defense and while I certainly like the addition of Ekholm, there hasn't been anymore whether via trade, signings, or drafting.
It is good enough. Negotiations are situational. Sometimes posters don’t understand I guess.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,579
31,616
Calgary
It is good enough. Negotiations are situational. Sometimes posters don’t understand I guess.
4+ years to build a contending defense and he hasn't done it.

See, we wouldn't have to even explore the trade market if Holland drafted well but he doesn't do that well either.

And that's not even getting into the goaltending which, as much as I defend Skinner, also isn't good enough.

Never mind the depth forwards who continue to fail to piss a drop unless they're stapled to McDavid or Draisatl.

Other teams find a way to add impact players, but not this one.
 
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brentashton

Registered User
Jan 21, 2018
13,346
18,806
4+ years to build a contending defense and he hasn't done it.

See, we wouldn't have to even explore the trade market if Holland drafted well but he doesn't do that well either.

And that's not even getting into the goaltending which, as much as I defend Skinner, also isn't good enough.

Never mind the depth forwards who continue to fail to piss a drop unless they're stapled to McDavid or Draisatl.

Other teams find a way to add impact players, but not this one.
Hey look everyone, Sam Pollock is a member of HFOil. Who knew.
 

tiger_80

Registered User
Apr 11, 2007
9,179
1,990
Tambellini was basically hired to tank and to trade players for picks. He did get the Oilers RNH and Nurse, iirc.
 

trojansoilers

Registered User
May 4, 2022
231
313
To be fair, Holland always seems to find some mid-season signing or trade that helps the team (E.Kane, Kostin, Perry).
 

Perfect_Drug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
15,568
11,909
Montreal
It's doubtful anyone could ever convince me that Tambo was anything but a public facing figurehead while Lowe+OBC were the 'true' GM's who micro-managed the team through him.
 

Sanderson

Registered User
Sep 10, 2002
5,685
276
Hamburg, Germany
No you're right, Holland has done a marvelous job. When's the statue being built?
Good old strawman, always the best argument...

Some people can't seem to understand that you need the resources to make a trade (cap-space, assets) and also a player to target who you can fit in and who the the other team wants to trade for what you can offer. Then you have to take into consideration that other teams can make offers as well, that they might have more resources available than you do, and / or have assets who are a much better fit for what the other team is looking for. On top of that, some players will have clauses which give them some level of control as well, and some teams may not be interested in giving you certain players either. A GM cannot force other teams to trade with him.

The cap has roughly stayed the same since Holland took over, and the team didn't have any cap-space to begin with, while being harmstrung by some contracts you had a hard time moving. Yet Holland vastly improved the quality and depth on offense, brought in quite a bit of help on defense (Keith, Ekholm, Kulak) and tried to find a solution in net (going after Markström, signing what was one of the top options available at that time in Campbell). He tried to bring in veteran experience with Keith (and the NHL robbed the Oilers of the cap-benefit they should have gotten), he brought in Kane below what would have been the regular cost of such a player due to the circumstances. Same thing with Perry. He got Hyman at a very affordable rate. He got creative in trying to squeeze in a nominally more capable player than the remaining league-minimum salary would allow for when signing Brown. That backfired, but you can hardly claim that he didn't try to go with high risk / high reward on that one. Now he brought in Henrique and Carrick, hardly nothing either.

You can certainly state that quite a few of his moves didn't work out, and in some cases that he should have known better from the get go, but that is true for virtually every GM. But one thing one definately cannot claim about Holland, is that he didn't try to improve the roster with what was available to him. What Holland couldn't do, was magically create cap-space out of thin air thanks to timely LTIR-cases.

His performance as GM has been fine. Not great, but far from bad. The team is much better than it was when he took over, all while having no additional cap-space.

Needless to say, only one team can win the Cup every year, and a lot has to come together to be the one who does it. You need to peak at the right time, not run into a team that has your number, you have to stay healthy, and luck plays a role as well. There have been plenty of cases where a GM did a very good job, the team worked as well as it possibly could, yet it still wasn't enough due to circumstances completely out of the hands of the GM, coaches or players.
 
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KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,579
31,616
Calgary
Good old strawman, always the best argument...

Some people can't seem to understand that you need the resources to make a trade (cap-space, assets) and also a player to target who you can fit in and who the the other team wants to trade for what you can offer. Then you have to take into consideration that other teams can make offers as well, that they might have more resources available than you do, and / or have assets who are a much better fit for what the other team is looking for. On top of that, some players will have clauses which give them some level of control as well, and some teams may not be interested in giving you certain players either. A GM cannot force other teams to trade with him.

The cap has roughly stayed the same since Holland took over, and the team didn't have any cap-space to begin with, while being harmstrung by some contracts you had a hard time moving. Yet Holland vastly improved the quality and depth on offense, brought in quite a bit of help on defense (Keith, Ekholm, Kulak) and tried to find a solution in net (going after Markström, signing what was one of the top options available at that time in Campbell). He tried to bring in veteran experience with Keith (and the NHL robbed the Oilers of the cap-benefit they should have gotten), he brought in Kane below what would have been the regular cost of such a player due to the circumstances. Same thing with Perry. He got Hyman at a very affordable rate. He got creative in trying to squeeze in a nominally more capable player than the remaining league-minimum salary would allow for when signing Brown. That backfired, but you can hardly claim that he didn't try to go with high risk / high reward on that one. Now he brought in Henrique and Carrick, hardly nothing either.

You can certainly state that quite a few of his moves didn't work out, and in some cases that he should have known better from the get go, but that is true for virtually every GM. But one thing one definately cannot claim about Holland, is that he didn't try to improve the roster with what was available to him. What Holland couldn't do, was magically create cap-space out of thin air thanks to timely LTIR-cases.

His performance as GM has been fine. Not great, but far from bad. The team is much better than it was when he took over, all while having no additional cap-space.

Needless to say, only one team can win the Cup every year, and a lot has to come together to be the one who does it. You need to peak at the right time, not run into a team that has your number, you have to stay healthy, and luck plays a role as well. There have been plenty of cases where a GM did a very good job, the team worked as well as it possibly could, yet it still wasn't enough due to circumstances completely out of the hands of the GM, coaches or players.
You're right, you do need cap space to make moves. Maybe if we didn't:

Sign Campbell
Sign Nurse to a bloated extension
Sign Ceci for far too long
Sign Brown
Buy out Neal

We'd have more space.

But I noticed that you post hasn't addressed Holland's biggest failing: His atrocious drafting.



Almost every single contract on the team sans McDavid and Draisatl belongs to Holland and in his tenure he was supposed to address depth scoring, defense, and goaltending. He hasn't done any of those. There was a reason Wings fans were so happy to be rid of him. The Campbell and Nurse contracts alone have hamstrung the team and he has nobody to blame but himself.
 
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