Who do you take at 9th Overall

[Machinehead]

Someone posted a few of them last week. Steve (draft analyst) was also in here a few pages ago saying the same thing.

I still only see Pronman saying it, and he's Pronman.

Be that as it may, the universe tells me Bouchard is the best defenseman in this draft (aside from "him"). I'll happily admit I was wrong.

I don't think he's a bad skater, I just don't know if he has quite the higher end speed a lot of teams are looking for in a top defenseman. It's not what I'd call a detriment, so much as it's not necessarily the foot he leads with.

Unfortunately, a lot of pre-draft scouting reports leave a lot to be desired with actual evaluation. Based on many reports, you'd think every kid is great in every area and has no concerns.

Fair assessment.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I still only see Pronman saying it, and he's Pronman.

Be that as it may, the universe tells me Bouchard is the best defenseman in this draft (aside from "him"). I'll happily admit I was wrong.

Fair assessment.

There are non Pronman ones out there saying this.

The universe is lying to you because it told me that he was going to bust.

 

[Edge]

I still only see Pronman saying it, and he's Pronman.

Be that as it may, the universe tells me Bouchard is the best defenseman in this draft (aside from "him"). I'll happily admit I was wrong.

Fair assessment.

He's slippery more than he is fast I'd say.

Generally speaking, I think Boqvist and Hughes have that extra gear over guys like Bouchard and Dobson. I'm sure for some teams, it's more or less a non-issue. For others, there might view it as being the difference between a guy they think has a decent shot at being a first pair defenseman, or whom they view more as a potential "really good" second pair guy.

 

[Machinehead]

There are non Pronman ones out there saying this.

The universe is lying to you because it told me that he was going to bust.

Maybe the universe likes me better

 

[pblawr]

I still only see Pronman saying it, and he's Pronman.

Be that as it may, the universe tells me Bouchard is the best defenseman in this draft (aside from "him"). I'll happily admit I was wrong.

Fair assessment.

If you watch Bouchard's highlights, he regularly beats the other teams forwards up the ice and gets behind the defense. It's not like he's taking a taxi to do that. I get that his skating might not be as good as Dobson's, but it seems to me like his ability to process the game is good enough that he's able to do more with his skating ability than Dobson is. It seems to me like the ability to process what's happening on the ice and make the right play is the most important part of being a good NHL player. For example, I think we'd all agree that Hagelin and Grabner are much better skaters than Stepan, but Stepan outscored both of them by a mile and was more valuable defensively too. John Moore is a better skater than Brent Burns, but I don't think anyone would take Moore over Burns.

 

[Kovalev27]

bouchard is a better player than Dobson and will probably go in the top 5 or 6 quite frankly. if he's sitting there at 8 and boqvist and wahlstrom are taken you better not screw it up and pass on him. bouchard is a stud.

 

[Lays]

That depends...Hughes or Wahlstrom...who are you taking?

Hughes.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you watch Bouchard's highlights, he regularly beats the other teams forwards up the ice and gets behind the defense. It's not like he's taking a taxi to do that. I get that his skating might not be as good as Dobson's, but it seems to me like his ability to process the game is good enough that he's able to do more with his skating ability than Dobson is. It seems to me like the ability to process what's happening on the ice and make the right play is the most important part of being a good NHL player. For example, I think we'd all agree that Hagelin and Grabner are much better skaters than Stepan, but Stepan outscored both of them by a mile and was more valuable defensively too. John Moore is a better skater than Brent Burns, but I don't think anyone would take Moore over Burns.

He's beating guys up ice in Juniors and his straight ahead speed isn't a problem (at least not for me.) I actually think he moves well point A to B, well enough where it isn't an issue at least.

It's the other stuff that worries me. His hockey IQ is very high and that will give him an advantage over someone of equal footing (skating wise.) But its interesting that you bring up Stepan because he was a guy who looked like a star level player coming up. He has been a good NHL player but not nearly as dominant as he was in the lower levels. Why? The skating held him back (and he's a better skater than Bouchard.)

John Moore does move better than Brent Burns, but both of them move significantly better than Bouchard does and probably ever will. Look at the top D in the league and then ask yourself how many guys move like Bouchard. The answer is none.

 

[Inferno]

Is the lottery itself televised?

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Is the lottery itself televised?

Yeah it starts right before the LV/SJ game on the same channel

 

[CasusBelli]

General inquiry: Do you guys follow these prospects throughout the year? Or do you mostly look at rankings as the draft approaches and research the top performers then? The degree to which some of you seem to know these kids just blows me away.

 

[Kovalev27]

General inquiry: Do you guys follow these prospects throughout the year? Or do you mostly look at rankings as the draft approaches and research the top performers then? The degree to which some of you seem to know these kids just blows me away.

little bit of both for me. its much easier to get these games and video now than it used to be. personally I haven't missed one of these under 18 games. this has been a real treat so close to the draft.

 

[CasusBelli]

little bit of both for me. its much easier to get these games and video now than it used to be. personally I haven't missed one of these under 18 games. this has been a real treat so close to the draft.

Kudos to you for your dedication to the sport; that’s true passion right there!

 

[Kovalev27]

oh there are plenty of guys here that watch these kids way more than I do. Kreiderman for instance who I don't necessarily agree with most of the time he's a little to emotionally attached to certain guys is literally at the Sweden tourney right now. that's dedication so kudos to him!

but I definitely watch and read plenty (the Athletic is a must for any big hockey fan these days and when they do the 50% off offer its a nobrainer) especially on the US/Canada/Swedish kids. Really should tune into the Under 18 tourney on NHL network just dvr it like I do catch it when you're free. really get a great look at a lot of these top kids and it being so close to the draft its really fun to analyze them.

 

[Inferno]

I cannot bring myself to pay for an outlet that thinks rick carpinello is the best choice to cover the rangers. There are literally 50 posters on this board who would be better choices.

@Kovalev27

 

[Edge]

General inquiry: Do you guys follow these prospects throughout the year? Or do you mostly look at rankings as the draft approaches and research the top performers then? The degree to which some of you seem to know these kids just blows me away.

I generally have an idea of who I want to track and keep tabs on, and that usually leads to me following other players.

Through a number of different avenues, including extensive travel for work, I see a lot and maintain relationships with people I've worked with over a 20+ year career at this point. As appropriate, I will reference their takes.

I will say that I do not follow as many of the European leagues as closely, or some of the lower level North American leagues.

It also depends on the year. From the second half of 2016-now, I've been traveling a lot more. From 2013- early 2016, not so much.

 

[nyr2k2]

General inquiry: Do you guys follow these prospects throughout the year? Or do you mostly look at rankings as the draft approaches and research the top performers then? The degree to which some of you seem to know these kids just blows me away.

I used to both watch and attend a ton of hockey. Then I got married and had kids. At that point, at least after kid one anyway, I watched a lot still. However, the place I watched a lot of the games was shutdown, so I have less access, and with a toddler on top of my older child I just don't have the free time that I used to (or, the free time that I do have is spent on family things). So I don't get to watch much anymore. I try to order a couple games for our higher-profile prospects still, watch the stuff that's on TV, and a few AHL games each year. That's about it for me! I now know nothing about the draft, and far less about our own prospects than I once did.

I also know little about the NHL teams outside our own division. I used to watch tons of NHL games, and when I was in California I'd go to Ducks games. Now, eh, it's just the Rangers and sometimes the Caps if nothing else is on.

 

[haveandare]

Any chance Hughes is there at 8 now? Anyone have strong opinions of him above or below Bouchard and Dobson?

 

[Kovalev27]

I cannot bring myself to pay for an outlet that thinks rick carpinello is the best choice to cover the rangers. There are literally 50 posters on this board who would be better choices.

@Kovalev27

I can't disagree with you there. the national articles are very good though

 

[Kovalev27]

Any chance Hughes is there at 8 now? Anyone have strong opinions of him above or below Bouchard and Dobson?

to me he's the guy that drops a bit

 

[Edge]

Any chance Hughes is there at 8 now? Anyone have strong opinions of him above or below Bouchard and Dobson?

I'd say it's a possibility. Bouchard and Dobson became the talked about prospects over the last few months because they put up impressive numbers in juniors. Don't get me wrong, they're very, very good prospects.

IMO Boqvist and Hughes are the best defensive prospects heading into the draft, behind Dahlin. I also think their potential to become first pair defensemen is greater than that of Bouchard or Dobson.

Hughes is fifth on my list, where he's been all season. I could easily put him fourth without blinking an eye.

I view Quinn and Boqvist being in the same tier --- south of Dahlin, and Svechnikov/Zadina, but north of Wahlstrom/Tkachuk/Farabee/Bouchard/Dobson.

 

[haveandare]

I'd say it's a possibility. Bouchard and Dobson became the talked about prospects over the last few months because they put up impressive numbers in juniors. Don't get me wrong, they're very, very good prospects.

IMO Boqvist and Hughes are the best defensive prospects heading into the draft, behind Dahlin. I also think their potential to become first pair defensemen is greater than that of Bouchard or Dobson.

Hughes is fifth on my list, where he's been all season. I could easily put him fourth without blinking an eye.

I view Quinn and Boqvist being in the same tier --- south of Dahlin, and Svechnikov/Zadina, but north of Wahlstrom/Tkachuk/Farabee/Bouchard/Dobson.

Interesting as always, thanks for the reply.

A few things I've read the last couple days insinuate that he may be dropping a bit. I guess we won't really even know if thats potentially helpful to us until tomorrow night, but it'd be an interesting twist.

 

[Edge]

Interesting as always, thanks for the reply.

A few things I've read the last couple days insinuate that he may be dropping a bit. I guess we won't really even know if thats potentially helpful to us until tomorrow night, but it'd be an interesting twist.

Like most prospects, in any sport, it wouldn't be impossible to name areas of his game that need work.

Obviously his size is a little bit of a concern as a defenseman, there's no way around it. There's some who want to see him use his teammates more and wonder if the one-man-show approach is something he is going to have to be trained out of, or whether it's just how he plays. He doesn't necessarily have a world-beating shot as a defenseman, so there are questions as to how that will translate at higher levels.

There are some questions about just how high his ceiling really is. A while back I relayed a comment a friend of mine made while we were out for drinks --- essentially saying that Hughes reminded him of Mathieu Schneider, both good and not so good. I had someone else say that for as good as he is, they saw some Keith Yandle in him and questioned whether some of the other players weren't more attractive options over the long-run.

Still there are others who see this kid as the type of player who can control the flow of play at the NHL as he matures and grows, really taking over a game and changing its entire course. They see some Brian Leetch in him, minus the goal-scoring, and think his upside among defenseman is the second highest in the draft.

But overall, I'd say the increased attention of Dobson and Bouchard has drawn from some of the fascination with Hughes.

 

[Levitate]

I used to both watch and attend a ton of hockey. Then I got married and had kids. At that point, at least after kid one anyway, I watched a lot still. However, the place I watched a lot of the games was shutdown, so I have less access, and with a toddler on top of my older child I just don't have the free time that I used to (or, the free time that I do have is spent on family things). So I don't get to watch much anymore. I try to order a couple games for our higher-profile prospects still, watch the stuff that's on TV, and a few AHL games each year. That's about it for me! I now know nothing about the draft, and far less about our own prospects than I once did.

I also know little about the NHL teams outside our own division. I used to watch tons of NHL games, and when I was in California I'd go to Ducks games. Now, eh, it's just the Rangers and sometimes the Caps if nothing else is on.

After just having one kid I've had my game watching go down quite a bit! Also being on the west coast now it's great that the games start at 4 but can be tough to split attention getting dinner ready, after the kid comes home, etc. I feel like I used to follow draft stuff better but lately I just have stuff that demands more of my time. I feel like I have a decent sense of our prospects but upcoming players in the draft? No real clue. I can read a description of their style and decide whether I agree with picking them over someone else but that's a pretty superficial analysis.

and ugh, feels like forever until the draft. downside to not making the playoffs...

On the other hand, kids are pretty great even though they're a lot of work.

 

[Lays]

Any chance Hughes is there at 8 now? Anyone have strong opinions of him above or below Bouchard and Dobson?

I think it’s a huge possibility
McKenzie averaged a few NHL scouts top 15 and Hughes was 9th. Would love him there