Which direction should we go

[Barry Amsterdam]

I understand this may lead to a roster discussion thread for which we already have a thread for, so mods bare with me. This is to see what us fans want to see regarding the future of the team at this point, as there seems to be many different "camps" for what we should do.

Click to read more...

 

[PB12]

What i want to see is what everybody THINKS will happen. Not what everybody wants. We have seen everybodys opinion.

 

[amjay13]

Would be foolish to blow it up right now. They won't be the favorite to win the Cup next year but they'll be a contender. As Caps fans we have been spoiled by being that almost every year of the Ovechkin era. There are only a handful of teams each year that are legit contenders. The Caps probably have two more years of that before it is truly time to rebuild.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Sneak into the playoffs and be out in the 2nd round

 

[hockeykicker]

People need to realize that they really can't trade ovechkin. Holtby has to be traded within the next two weeks or he isn't going anywhere. Backstrom has a 23 team no trade clause so good luck finding one of the remaining 8 teams and who knows on Carlson

 

[um]

People need to realize that they really can't trade ovechkin. Holtby has to be traded within the next two weeks or he isn't going anywhere. Backstrom has a 23 team no trade clause so good luck finding one of the remaining 8 teams and who knows on Carlson

that's BS. Him being traded would be like Subban or Weber being traded last year.

 

[SpinningEdge]

Build from the net out.

This team never gets secondary scoring anyways, and hasn't figured out that a Eller/Beagle centering half your lines are going to do nothing.

Might as well build the team around Holtby - and that means somehow going out and finding a way to get a true #1 D guy. Then build out best D corps you can from there.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

People need to realize that they really can't trade ovechkin. Holtby has to be traded within the next two weeks or he isn't going anywhere. Backstrom has a 23 team no trade clause so good luck finding one of the remaining 8 teams and who knows on Carlson

Does holtby have a nmc kicking in, in two weeks or something ?

 

[Capsman]

Build from the net out.

This team never gets secondary scoring anyways, and hasn't figured out that a Eller/Beagle centering half your lines are going to do nothing.

Might as well build the team around Holtby - and that means somehow going out and finding a way to get a true #1 D guy. Then build out best D corps you can from there.

Our d-corps was plenty good enough to win it all. Who was Pittsburgh's true #1 D in the playoffs? I agree on a 3rd line center, although I'm not convinced Eller can't be the guy with a viable system in place.

 

[PB12]

Does holtby have a nmc kicking in, in two weeks or something ?

No. Most people here and around the league are expecting our old friend GMGM to take Grubby. So you keep Holtby or trade hime before the Vegas Draft

 

[SpinningEdge]

Back to back Vezina finalist - and people want him to be traded?

It's not going to happen. Zero chance.

If Caps want to move players - move players who have been at fault for Caps playoff losses. Holtby has one average playoffs and all of a sudden is being ridiculed.

Do people not see what Pitt and Toronto were like offensively in the regular season? Two offensive juggernauts

 

[um]

The only reason to trade Holtby is to free up some cap or your super high on Grubauer, I don't really agree with either reasons. I'd do it if we can get a really good return, like Philly's 2nd overall pick.

I'd much rather trade Ovechkin (9.5), Orpik (5.5), and Johansson (4.5) and free up 19.5 million. Obviously I'd expect 10-15 million back with good players coming back, plus we'd still have enough room to bring back Oshie and others.

 

[g00n]

IMO fans seem much more open to a lot of different scenarios this year. In the past it was probably 80% chatter about trading 2 or 3 whipping boys who people hoped would bring some kind of Lindros value.

I would like to see big, meaningful changes from the top down. I expect to see about the same thing we saw the last few years: a few guys walk and a few others come in.

 

[twabby]

Fire Trotz. He's a great guy and has a general idea how to build a team for an 82 game stretch but he absolutely cannot adapt or build series-specific strategies, instead opting for long grind-fests.

I'd trade Carlson. Unlike Ovechkin he has a great cap hit that many contenders could find palatable. Tampa seems like a good trade partner, perhaps Toronto. Both have good young forwards (which I think the Caps need) and both need a D and are contenders next season. I'm not interested in signing Carlson long term so I'd trade him now and get a potentially great return since he is a RHD.

I'd look to trade Ovechkin if a good deal comes around but it doesn't look likely. Absolutely no interest in trading Backstrom or Niskanen, and 100% interested in finding a way to dump Orpik.

Play the young AHL guys. Bowey, Vrana, Djoos, Barber, etc. should be given legitimate shots.

 

[g00n]

These trades aren't happening. This organization is paralyzed by the restraining aspects of Prospect Theory

https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/mini-encyclopedia-of-be/prospect-theory/

Not winning the Cups is not prioritized over having a CHANCE to win the Cup. So the bigger loss is perceived as not making the playoffs no matter what they say. Hence the big moves after the last playoff miss, and the constant "this is fine, we just didn't do X like we should have" background message through little changes after playoff disappointments.

This means the organizational attitude is always "anyone can win in the playoffs", which may be true in the sense that seeding seems to be less important in the current format, or else they for SOME reason believe they keep putting together playoff-ready teams that inexplicably fall short. Since they've had this "just get in" attitude prior to the changes to playoff format I'm inclined to believe they see themselves as viable playoff contenders based on regular season success, and think that "anyone can win" because they don't recognize what separates winners from losers in the postseason. Which means they don't understand what it takes to go deep and will keep repeating these mistakes while making tweaks.

If failure was defined as anything short of winning the Cup in Y years then the script would flip and the loss aversion would change to risk taking. We heard about this "window" for the last 3 years but that's likely going to be another half-measure solution and just more talk.

-Dr. g00n

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd make one foundation shaking trade and rebuild the other losses, start from there.

Hard to disagree with you Goon.

 

[John Price]

Was listening to mvw and wyshinski favors staying the course

 

[Jags]

These trades aren't happening. This organization is paralyzed by the restraining aspects of Prospect Theory

https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/mini-encyclopedia-of-be/prospect-theory/

Not winning the Cups is not prioritized over having a CHANCE to win the Cup. So the bigger loss is perceived as not making the playoffs no matter what they say. Hence the big moves after the last playoff miss, and the constant "this is fine, we just didn't do X like we should have" background message through little changes after playoff disappointments.

This means the organizational attitude is always "anyone can win in the playoffs", which may be true in the sense that seeding seems to be less important in the current format, or else they for SOME reason believe they keep putting together playoff-ready teams that inexplicably fall short. Since they've had this "just get in" attitude prior to the changes to playoff format I'm inclined to believe they see themselves as viable playoff contenders based on regular season success, and think that "anyone can win" because they don't recognize what separates winners from losers in the postseason. Which means they don't understand what it takes to go deep and will keep repeating these mistakes while making tweaks.

If failure was defined as anything short of winning the Cup in Y years then the script would flip and the loss aversion would change to risk taking. We heard about this "window" for the last 3 years but that's likely going to be another half-measure solution and just more talk.

-Dr. g00n

It's the "inexplicably fall short" part I disagree with. If we were losing to teams that get knocked out themselves, sure. But when you're losing to a team that goes on to win the Cup (maybe twice), the narrative changes a bit. And I agree that it's not an excuse, but it IS different to get ousted by an inferior team than it is to get knocked out late in a series by the champs.

So if you mean "inexplicably" like "this team is finding a way to lose," I disagree. They lost to great teams. But if you mean it in the sense that the organization can't seem to identify and repair their own weaknesses and failures, I definitely agree with that. Trotz has to shoulder a lot of the blame this time, and since it looks like he's not getting fired, I hope his feet are held to the fire so he'll open his eyes.

 

[g00n]

It's the "inexplicably fall short" part I disagree with. If we were losing to teams that get knocked out themselves, sure. But when you're losing to a team that goes on to win the Cup (maybe twice), the narrative changes a bit. And I agree that it's not an excuse, but it IS different to get ousted by an inferior team than it is to get knocked out late in a series by the champs.

So if you mean "inexplicably" like "this team is finding a way to lose," I disagree. They lost to great teams. But if you mean it in the sense that the organization can't seem to identify and repair their own weaknesses and failures, I definitely agree with that. Trotz has to shoulder a lot of the blame this time, and since it looks like he's not getting fired, I hope his feet are held to the fire so he'll open his eyes.

You're overthinking it and over analyzing one word in a phrase. The point is they keep creating teams that dominate the regular season and they expect these teams to go deep in the playoffs. For some reason they can't seem to fathom, that doesn't happen. That's the meaning.

They/we can't keep looking at how far the team that beat us goes in the playoffs as if that means anything when the goal is to get PAST those teams.

They have to figure out WHY this keeps happening and take different steps to correct it, not just throw (mostly the same ) crap at the wall and hope things work out.

 

[Jags]

You're overthinking it

No, I'm picking at you overthinking it. The difference between winning and losing was one game. It would have been nice if our offense showed up for that game. It's that simple.

That you guys want to dissect the minutiae to find the mental block or problem player or system or coach or whatever else... THAT is overthinking it.

They/we can't keep looking at how far the team that beat us goes in the playoffs as if that means anything when the goal is to get PAST those teams.

Right. It's immaterial to look at the reality of teams that advance when your problem is not advancing. It means nothing to quantify the degree of your loss to ascertain whether it's something small or something that needs blowing up.

The rational thing to do is to start dismantling a league-leading team over a single loss because of your overanalysis and frustration.

It was one game. The issues were depth scoring and coaching, same as last year.

They have to figure out WHY this keeps happening and take different steps to correct it, not just throw (mostly the same ) crap at the wall and hope things work out.

Right, cut your nose off to spite your face, throw the baby out with the bathwater, and all that other cliched nonsense.

They know why this keeps happening. Whether they fix it remains to be seen, but you're acting like they got blown out by a crap team. They didn't. They got narrowly beaten by champions. Stop overreacting.

 

[g00n]

No, I'm picking at you overthinking it. The difference between winning and losing was one game. It would have been nice if our offense showed up for that game. It's that simple.

That you guys want to dissect the minutiae to find the mental block or problem player or system or coach or whatever else... THAT is overthinking it.



Right. It's immaterial to look at the reality of teams that advance when your problem is not advancing. It means nothing to quantify the degree of your loss to ascertain whether it's something small or something that needs blowing up.

The rational thing to do is to start dismantling a league-leading team over a single loss because of your overanalysis and frustration.

It was one game. The issues were depth scoring and coaching, same as last year.



Right, cut your nose off to spite your face, throw the baby out with the bathwater, and all that other cliched nonsense.

They know why this keeps happening. Whether they fix it remains to be seen, but you're acting like they got blown out by a crap team. They didn't. They got narrowly beaten by champions. Stop overreacting.

Yeah, that sure resembles what I actually said.

 

[blokeyhighlander]

Let Trotz go if you can get a (good) veteran coach who has won the Cup before, otherwise keep him and then keep an eye towards firing him during a slump during the regular season and bring in an up and coming coach who can provide a spark.

Keep Holtby, try to keep as many other players as possible. No big trades unless we're filling a big need for a marginal loss.

Ask Ovi to come in much lighter.

Make playoffs as a mid seed.

 

[MrGone]

Let Trotz go if you can get a (good) veteran coach who has won the Cup before, otherwise keep him and then keep an eye towards firing him during a slump during the regular season and bring in an up and coming coach who can provide a spark.

Keep Holtby, try to keep as many other players as possible. No big trades unless we're filling a big need for a marginal loss.

Ask Ovi to come in much lighter.

Make playoffs as a mid seed.

You sound like you think the past 10 season have a complete success.

 

[Revelation]

If they replace Trotz with Sutter, dump Orpik and tread water everywhere else (keep Oshie, Williams and their top 4, lose Grubauer and Johansson and replace Johansson well enough) they could Nashville their way in next year. Pitt will be exhausted after 2 consecutive cup runs.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Staying the course makes no sense to me, there's obviously something wrong with this team. Firing Trotz is a risk, we could end up with a worse coach.

The one thing that makes sense is to shake up the core. I'd target the blue line more than the forwards. Move Alzner, Carlson and Orpik. Start again with a top D, and fill out the rest of the top 4 with Niskanen, Orlov and Schmidt.