Where Would Matthews Rank on His Team's Depth Chart if Spezza, Tavares, Thornton Were at Their Peaks
- Thread starter GlitchMarner
- Start date
Between 2C and 3C.
Thornton
Matthews/Tavares
Spezza
Really just depends on how Matthew’s continues to progress. This early in his career he’s better than Tavares was at the same point in his career and just about equal with peak Tavares. He could be better than peak Tavares this season. Time will tell.
After 4 seasons in the NHL Tavares was 42 points below point per game, had yet to have a single season where he was above point per game and had a career high of 31 goals. Matthews is 3 points above point per game for his career, has been above point per game in 3/4 seasons and has a career high of 47 goals.
Tavares’s career high is 47 goals 88 points in 82 games. Matthews’ is 47 goals, 80 points in 70 games. You can definitely argue he’s at peak Tavares’ level right now, or will be this coming season.
Thornton
Matthews/Tavares
Spezza
Really just depends on how Matthew’s continues to progress. This early in his career he’s better than Tavares was at the same point in his career and just about equal with peak Tavares. He could be better than peak Tavares this season. Time will tell.
After 4 seasons in the NHL Tavares was 42 points below point per game, had yet to have a single season where he was above point per game and had a career high of 31 goals. Matthews is 3 points above point per game for his career, has been above point per game in 3/4 seasons and has a career high of 47 goals.
Tavares’s career high is 47 goals 88 points in 82 games. Matthews’ is 47 goals, 80 points in 70 games. You can definitely argue he’s at peak Tavares’ level right now, or will be this coming season.
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Eternal Leaf
Registered User
Thornton
Matthews
Tavares
Spezza
Thornton was a monster. For me, Matthews is better than peak Tavares.
Matthews
Tavares
Spezza
Thornton was a monster. For me, Matthews is better than peak Tavares.
#2.
Thornton would be the undisputed #1.
Spezza at 3, JT at 4. Prime spezza was an absolute monster.
Thornton would be the undisputed #1.
Spezza at 3, JT at 4. Prime spezza was an absolute monster.
Bouboumaster
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2014
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We don't know enough about Matthews to put him above Thornton.
It's nothing against Matthews, it's just that Thornton is a first ballot hall-of-famer.
It's nothing against Matthews, it's just that Thornton is a first ballot hall-of-famer.
nickdawg95
scoutdawg
- Jan 7, 2016
- 3,286
- 1,770
Regular season 05-08
spezza in 211 games played - 269 points
Playoffs
34 games played - 37 points
Matthews/Tavares are 3/4c If we're talking about peaks
spezza in 211 games played - 269 points
Playoffs
34 games played - 37 points
Matthews/Tavares are 3/4c If we're talking about peaks
canuckking1
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2015
- 12,770
- 13,751
Depends on how you rate Tavares' peak. He had a perfect storm type season where he was a Hart finalist and second in scoring but it was more of a season where everything went right for him. Kinda similar to the season Panarin just had.
In Tavares peak season he finished second in Hart trophy voting with 86 points while the next highest scorer on his team only had 51 points. What season did Spezza ever have that was as good as that?
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
Thornton was the best player by far in this group, Matthews is slightly better than peak Spezza and Tavares.
He should be #2, and I think he will be #2. But if it’s only based on what we’ve seen so far, I think I’d take Spezza or Tavares’s best season over Matthews.
Matthews is easily better than peak Thornton and significantly better than peak Spezza and Tavares.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 55,761
- 46,798
2C.
Thornton's peak was tremendous, so he'd be 1C. After that, Matthews right now is more dominating than either Spezza or Tavares at their best.
I'd actually have Spezza at 3C over Tavares. Spezza's production from age 22 to 24 is a level Tavares never matched.
Thornton's peak was tremendous, so he'd be 1C. After that, Matthews right now is more dominating than either Spezza or Tavares at their best.
I'd actually have Spezza at 3C over Tavares. Spezza's production from age 22 to 24 is a level Tavares never matched.
Thornton's definitely number 1, and I think you could make arguments for the other 3 but I would go with Matthews. They're all pretty similar offensively at their best but Matthews has a better all-around game.
I don'tknow about that. Spezza was 4th, 5th and 6th in PPG those years playing with Heatley and Alfredsson. Tavares was 4th and 5th in PPG in back to back years in 13-14 and 14-15 without one star winger let alone 2. A lot of Sens fans think Spezza's best year was '12 where he finished 4th in scoring with 84 points. That's right in line with Tavares' best production
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 55,761
- 46,798
Tavares proved after signing in Toronto that his numbers weren't likely to skyrocket just by having better wingers. Playing with an elite playmaking winger (Marner) and playing on a PP with an elite goal scorer (Matthews) still only resulted in 88 points.
Ultimately, they're probably on the same sort of tier. But I'd give the edge to Spezza because of actual results.
Well to be fair Matthews is pretty close to being a first ballot hall of fame lock himself.
hamzarocks
Registered User
In a much higher scoring era with vastly better linemates.
Prine JT went 3rd and 2nd in hart voting. From 12-13 to 14-15 he was a clear top 5 player in the league potentially top 3 behind sid and geno.
Spezza was insane but he wasnt as good as tavares was from 13-15.
Matthews would be 3C ahead of Spezza but behind the JT's.
Matthews still has room to get better and his prime could be better than anyone hear if he has a monster season
MessierII
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2011
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Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 4,744
- 8,316
I put him at firmly behind Thornton and Spezza right now. Doubt he'll ever match Thornton's peak, but he certainly pass Spezza.
Tavares' 5v5 production actually significantly improved his first year playing with Marner. He scored 21 more 5v5 points in 18-19 than he did in 17-18 going from 39 points to 60, which also beat his career best by 12. The issue was that his PP production suffered because Toronto had a lack of PPs and Babcock split PP ice time. His PP production fell from 30 points to 19, with his minutes falling 30 seconds a game. If he played his regular PP minutes, he would have been around 25 PP points, which would have pushed him up to 94 total and a 10 point increase over the year before. Obviously projections aren't perfect, but I don't think he's shown at all that he wouldn't have an increase with better linemates. Spezza still played huge PP minutes those years along with the 2 stars at 5v5.
Spezza also played with 2 elite wingers not just one while Tavares and Marner played with Hyman who can't create much on his own. I don't believe secondary assists are worth nothing, but if you're playing with 2 other elite players it makes it easier to collect secondary assists. 27.5% of Spezza's points from 05-06 to 07-08 were secondaries. In comparison, only 18% of Tavares' points in 18-19 were on secondaries and 21% in 14-15.
These things don't have the huge effects some people think, but they add up, and it's not like their scoring relative to the league was significantly different.
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KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Peak Tavares played with absolute scrubs in a lower scoring era. He was runner up in the Art Ross by one or 2 points and was a finalist for the Hart. Matthews hasn't reached that level yet even if is raw numbers are better because he plays with better players and in a higher scoring era.
Rob Brown
Way She Goes
- Dec 17, 2009
- 16,986
- 13,715
Yeah, Matthews with peak Jumbo passing him the puck would be scary.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
lol because Spezza was centering two of the best wingers in the world. Who did Tavares have?
Thornton
Tavares
Matthews
Spezza
