where are Switzerlands top prospects?

[RKBoy]

maybe a bit dramatic name of the thread, but i guess its kind of suiting.

Switzerland made huge progress over the last 10-15 years, establishing themselves as regular QF team in the worlds, getting two Silvers, having 1OA in the draft and several impactful and star players in the NHL and making their league one of the best in the world (arguably top 5).

but yet, their last really succsesful draft was in 2018, since then only one player drafted made it into NHL (Moser), having only 6 players drafted (zero in 2020) and no big prospect (Fiala, Meier, Hischier, Josi level) in sight, maybe Bichsel but that doesnt seem that big with the fact how much they invested in the infrastructure and junior developing system.

their perfomances in Juniors, U18 or HGC are also really avereage, just basic "not to get relegated".

with this pace they will be out of that imaginary top 8 in just several years, same thing that happened to Slovakia or at some dregree Czechia (even that they never droped out of top 8, they were once held as top 3-4 nation).

can somebody who has more info explain? how does Swiss fans seeing this? or am i missing something?

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[Namejs]

Your entire point is built on a false premise. Hockey in Switzerland has not 'hugely progressed' over the last 10 or 15 years. What is that based on?

They have been remarkably consistent over the last 20-25 years, producing high end NHL talent on a regular basis with no major changes to their rankings.

Some ebbs and flows are natural.

Why would they be out of the top 8?

 

[Lambo]

Drafted Players since 2009:

SWE:384

RUS:254

FIN:208

CZE:101

SUI:32 (fluctuates between 0 and 5. Mostly 1-3 per year).

 

[Hinterland]

Useless thread. If you're looking for info re the problems in Swiss ice hockey I suggest reading through the threads in this forum. We discussed it a lot over the years. It's not ideal but the reality is that Switzerland is a small country so the potential is kinda limited. I don't see Switzerland losing ground though. It's all pretty consistent. And the 06 group is actually the best in years, if not in forever. Just look at how many players are listed by Central Scouting for the upcoming draft. Performance at the WJC18 was actually really good as well. Maybe the best tournament ever despite the disappointing results. They were pretty much even or better at even strength in all games despite all top players except Ustinkov being injured. If it wasn't for the injuries and Coaches playing one goalie only (who threw away two games) then it could have been a successful tournament.

 

[Fjorden]

Useless thread. If you're looking for info re the problems in Swiss ice hockey I suggest reading through the threads in this forum. We discussed it a lot over the years. It's not ideal but the reality is that Switzerland is a small country so the potential is kinda limited. I don't see Switzerland losing ground though. It's all pretty consistent. And the 06 group is actually the best in years, if not in forever. Just look at how many players are listed by Central Scouting for the upcoming draft. Performance at the WJC18 was actually really good as well. Maybe the best tournament ever despite the disappointing results. They were pretty much even or better at even strength in all games despite all top players except Ustinkov being injured. If it wasn't for the injuries and Coaches playing one goalie only (who threw away two games) then it could have been a successful tournament.

RKBoy writes about top prospects, not collective team performance.and depth.

On the individual stats from this years u18 wc the best swiss forward is ranked #77 Jordan Forget.(0,5 PPG) looking at PPG(points per game). Glan Maier your best D, ranked #44 on the PPG stats.
The top 10 has strong USA/Canada dominance with 9/10 coming from USA/Canada, one european in top10 PPG Tuomas Suoniemi(Finland). It is likely to think that some of those high producing players will become top prospects.

Norway have four forwards with at least 1.0 PPG.
Elias Vatne(1,4), Mathias Dehli(1,2), Mikkel Eriksen(1,0) and Jørgen Myhre(1.0)

Countries with most players with at least 1.0 PPG in U18 WC. (before the final)
USA:9 players
Canada:7 players
Finland: 5 players
Sweden: 4 players
Norway: 4 players
Kazakhstan: 2 players
Slovakia: 1 player
Czechia: 0 players
Latvia: 0 players
Switzerland: 0 players

So from the stats you could tell that their aren't many productive swiss forwards in this tournament.

Elite Prospects - WJC-18 Stats 2023-2024

 

[jonas2244]

One WJC is a pretty small sample size to determine wheter a player is productive.

 

[Hinterland]

RKBoy writes about top prospects, not collective team performance.and depth.

On the individual stats from this years u18 wc the best swiss forward is ranked #77 Jordan Forget.(0,5 PPG) looking at PPG(points per game). Glan Maier your best D, ranked #44 on the PPG stats.
The top 10 has strong USA/Canada dominance with 9/10 coming from USA/Canada, one european in top10 PPG Tuomas Suoniemi(Finland). It is likely to think that some of those high producing players will become top prospects.

Norway have four forwards with at least 1.0 PPG.
Elias Vatne(1,4), Mathias Dehli(1,2), Mikkel Eriksen(1,0) and Jørgen Myhre(1.0)

Countries with most players with at least 1.0 PPG in U18 WC. (before the final)
USA:9 players
Canada:7 players
Finland: 5 players
Sweden: 4 players
Norway: 4 players
Kazakhstan: 2 players
Slovakia: 1 player
Czechia: 0 players
Latvia: 0 players
Switzerland: 0 players

So from the stats you could tell that their aren't many productive swiss forwards in this tournament.

Elite Prospects - WJC-18 Stats 2023-2024

Again, I suggest looking at Central Scouting's list.

With the exception of Ustinkov, every single top prospect of the Swiss 06 group was injured. So your post becomes rather irrelevant, really. Also, as mentioned already, the WJC18 is a small sample size. You're also underestimating the fact that Switzerland was in the stronger group. The Swiss only had one easy game to fill the net with pucks. In the other group scoring goals was much easier. At those WJC's you can easily score ppg and suck but you can score at 0.5 and have a great tournament as well.

 

[Fjorden]

Again, I suggest looking at Central Scouting's list.

With the exception of Ustinkov, every single top prospect of the Swiss 06 group was injured. So your post becomes rather irrelevant, really. Also, as mentioned already, the WJC18 is a small sample size. You're also underestimating the fact that Switzerland was in the stronger group. The Swiss only had one easy game to fill the net with pucks. In the other group scoring goals was much easier. At those WJC's you can easily score ppg and suck but you can score at 0.5 and have a great tournament as well.

The groups were pretty even in strength. 2 out of 4 semifinalists came from the group without Switzerland, and the team that got relegated was in the swiss group. The strongest team so far is USA from the other group. Czechia-Slovakia and Finland-Sweden were close games in QF.

USA, Finland and Slovakia are no "prügelknabe" in hockey, and Latvia also performed well and came with a decent team.

James Hagens from USA are ranked #1 in many draft predicitons, so some of the top performers in this tournament will be high picks in the draft. Canada miss some of their best players due to CHL play off, but many of the best players(u18) participated in this tournament

 

[Czechboy]

I hate to be the guy here.. but I've been saying this for awhile now. Swiss are in trouble. They are the 2005 Czechs. Everything was good at the adult level... Recent U20 success and then it all went to hell. And we still aren't out of that hole. Eg. We barely have any relevant players from 20 to 26. We have our older guys and then a black hole. This is what I think will happen to the Swiss.

Josi retires. The studs approach 30 within 2 to 4 years don't they? Hischier et al? Who's next in the pipe? Same gap is building.

Hope I'm wrong.. not trying to flame the Swiss at a time their NHL players are awesome.

No stud goalie either.

Doesn't look like it today but, from experience, a gap is growing.

As far who would push them out? That is fair... No one. Czechs and Slovaks may continue to improve and push them down a notch in the future. Belarus would be building nicely right now. Russia seems to be developing great talent as well.

 

[kudla]

I hate to be the guy here.. but I've been saying this for awhile now. Swiss are in trouble. They are the 2005 Czechs. Everything was good at the adult level... Recent U20 success and then it all went to hell. And we still aren't out of that hole. Eg. We barely have any relevant players from 20 to 26. We have our older guys and then a black hole. This is what I think will happen to the Swiss.

Josi retires. The studs approach 30 within 2 to 4 years don't they? Hischier et al? Who's next in the pipe? Same gap is building.

Hope I'm wrong.. not trying to flame the Swiss at a time their NHL players are awesome.

No stud goalie either.

Doesn't look like it today but, from experience, a gap is growing.

As far who would push them out? That is fair... No one. Czechs and Slovaks may continue to improve and push them down a notch in the future. Belarus would be building nicely right now. Russia seems to be developing great talent as well.

Yeah, it will be maybe as bad as the Slovakia downfall

 

[Hinterland]

I hate to be the guy here.. but I've been saying this for awhile now. Swiss are in trouble. They are the 2005 Czechs. Everything was good at the adult level... Recent U20 success and then it all went to hell. And we still aren't out of that hole. Eg. We barely have any relevant players from 20 to 26. We have our older guys and then a black hole. This is what I think will happen to the Swiss.

Josi retires. The studs approach 30 within 2 to 4 years don't they? Hischier et al? Who's next in the pipe? Same gap is building.

Hope I'm wrong.. not trying to flame the Swiss at a time their NHL players are awesome.

No stud goalie either.

Doesn't look like it today but, from experience, a gap is growing.

As far who would push them out? That is fair... No one. Czechs and Slovaks may continue to improve and push them down a notch in the future. Belarus would be building nicely right now. Russia seems to be developing great talent as well.

Not currently in the NHL but I think Joren van Pottelberghe could be good enough to play NHL, just made the mistake to stay in Biel after his injury that cost him almost an entire year. He's easily the best goalie with Swiss passport now. Connor Hughes and Stéphane Charlin played a very good season as well. All three are excellent goalies and clearly better than Akira Schmid. I could see them play NHL down the road if that's their ambition. Also, the goalie pipeline does look good with all those 06 kids. Kirsch, Lachat, Neuenschwander and Solèr are all extremely promising. Yeah, this is the first good year for goalies after a few dry years but goalies are the least of my worries. Switzerland always had good goalies. If anything, Switzerland is lacking elite goalscorers. We saw that at the WJC18 as well. Lots of chances but hardly any goals.

 

[Hinterland]

The groups were pretty even in strength. 2 out of 4 semifinalists came from the group without Switzerland, and the team that got relegated was in the swiss group. The strongest team so far is USA from the other group. Czechia-Slovakia and Finland-Sweden were close games in QF.

USA, Finland and Slovakia are no "prügelknabe" in hockey, and Latvia also performed well and came with a decent team.

James Hagens from USA are ranked #1 in many draft predicitons, so some of the top performers in this tournament will be high picks in the draft. Canada miss some of their best players due to CHL play off, but many of the best players(u18) participated in this tournament

Lol. Just look at goals against. Latvia may have had one of their better teams but both Slovakia and Latvia were much easier to score against than Czechia or Sweden who both had high end goalie prospects. Outside of the Kazakhstan game, Ryerson Leenders was the lone goalie to give up a soft goal vs Switzerland all tournament long. Yeah, Switzerland was lacking finish but I guarantee you Switzerland would have scored more goals in the other group. Any team would have.

 

[Namejs]

RKBoy writes about top prospects, not collective team performance.and depth.

On the individual stats from this years u18 wc the best swiss forward is ranked #77 Jordan Forget.(0,5 PPG) looking at PPG(points per game). Glan Maier your best D, ranked #44 on the PPG stats.
The top 10 has strong USA/Canada dominance with 9/10 coming from USA/Canada, one european in top10 PPG Tuomas Suoniemi(Finland). It is likely to think that some of those high producing players will become top prospects.

Norway have four forwards with at least 1.0 PPG.
Elias Vatne(1,4), Mathias Dehli(1,2), Mikkel Eriksen(1,0) and Jørgen Myhre(1.0)

Countries with most players with at least 1.0 PPG in U18 WC. (before the final)
USA:9 players
Canada:7 players
Finland: 5 players
Sweden: 4 players
Norway: 4 players
Kazakhstan: 2 players
Slovakia: 1 player
Czechia: 0 players
Latvia: 0 players
Switzerland: 0 players

So from the stats you could tell that their aren't many productive swiss forwards in this tournament.

Elite Prospects - WJC-18 Stats 2023-2024

This is one of the worst and most arbitrary attempts at trying to make a facts-based inference I've ever seen.

If you asked me to choose between drafting the leading U18 Swiss prospects over the Norwegian ones, I would do that every single time.

Norway and Kazakhstan played an extra game against, well, Kazakhstan and Norway. Switzerland and Latvia played an extra game against the US and Canada. Once you adjust for that, suddenly the numbers change.

There is no evidence for a Swiss downfall unless they continue experiencing a lull in NHL draftees, which is highly unlikely even looking just at the 2024 prospects.

 

[RKBoy]

Useless thread. If you're looking for info re the problems in Swiss ice hockey I suggest reading through the threads in this forum. We discussed it a lot over the years. It's not ideal but the reality is that Switzerland is a small country so the potential is kinda limited. I don't see Switzerland losing ground though. It's all pretty consistent. And the 06 group is actually the best in years, if not in forever. Just look at how many players are listed by Central Scouting for the upcoming draft. Performance at the WJC18 was actually really good as well. Maybe the best tournament ever despite the disappointing results. They were pretty much even or better at even strength in all games despite all top players except Ustinkov being injured. If it wasn't for the injuries and Coaches playing one goalie only (who threw away two games) then it could have been a successful tournament.

well i just tried to ignite the discussion and see other perspective and maybe some one would made me aware of some great Switzerland prospect i have missed, i dont really have time going throught several threads hoping for that i find what i am looking for, thats why these forums exits to create threads and discuss and i didnt see any created to this kind of topic.

i like Switzerland as nation and hockey team, thats why i am curious how you stand with prospects for upcoming drafts as countries like Czechia, Slovakia even Latvia has some notable names potentialy for first round already for 2025 or 2026 drafts while Swiss dont.. or at least i am not aware of any.

 

[RKBoy]

Your entire point is built on a false premise. Hockey in Switzerland has not 'hugely progressed' over the last 10 or 15 years. What is that based on?

They have been remarkably consistent over the last 20-25 years, producing high end NHL talent on a regular basis with no major changes to their rankings.

Some ebbs and flows are natural.

Why would they be out of the top 8?

well, on senior level they went from a team that was contender for QF spot to medal conteder, i think thats big leap, they league also gained on quality.. as a Slovak i see that and many people here too, because roles are now reversed and people compare ouselves to Switzerland as an back in the day it was likely the opposite way.

of course, our regression has to do with a lot, but when you compare their drafts from 2010 to now and before you see more talent in shorter period of time being drafted, hence why they have now such a strong NHL core.

"hugely progressed" was probably strong interpretation, but definitely big progress that established them higher among the elite.

i am not saying i am right, i just try to discuss and see other perspective and points.

 

[Hinterland]

well i just tried to ignite the discussion and see other perspective and maybe some one would made me aware of some great Switzerland prospect i have missed, i dont really have time going throught several threads hoping for that i find what i am looking for, thats why these forums exits to create threads and discuss and i didnt see any created to this kind of topic.

i like Switzerland as nation and hockey team, thats why i am curious how you stand with prospects for upcoming drafts as countries like Czechia, Slovakia even Latvia has some notable names potentialy for first round already for 2025 or 2026 drafts while Swiss dont.. or at least i am not aware of any.

Doesn't change the fact that it's been discussed already and I don't feel like repeating myself right now. Here's the 15 Swiss players listed by Central Scouting for the upcoming draft. Some of these names I think are bs and aren't gonna get drafted but I don't think Central Scouting ever had 15 Swiss prospects listed so you posted your thread at an...interesting time.

 

[Namejs]

well, on senior level they went from a team that was contender for QF spot to medal conteder, i think thats big leap, they league also gained on quality.. as a Slovak i see that and many people here too, because roles are now reversed and people compare ouselves to Switzerland as an back in the day it was likely the opposite way.

of course, our regression has to do with a lot, but when you compare their drafts from 2010 to now and before you see more talent in shorter period of time being drafted, hence why they have now such a strong NHL core.

"hugely progressed" was probably strong interpretation, but definitely big progress that established them higher among the elite.

i am not saying i am right, i just try to discuss and see other perspective and points.

I am watching hockey from before the Swiss were playing in the Elite division. Although a quick google search could fix that if that were not the case.

Just look up their rankings at the Worlds after they remained in the A pool permanently a year after Latvia in 1998.

If we split up the last 25 Worlds into 5-year segments, the Swiss made the top 8:
1. 3/5 98-02
2. 4/5 03-07
3. 2/5 08-12
4. 3/5 13-17 (1x silver)
5. 5/5 18-23 (1x silver)

Yet they are somehow trending down not up?

I honestly have no idea what is this even based on.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Swiss took Sweden to OT in u18 and u20. Their youngsters are just as good as Swedens.