When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[PaulD]

Yzerman has won everywhere he's been. He's publicly stated that patience is required and DRW fans have obliged him. He's earned that trust.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Yea. I see the majority of Wings fans are good with Steve, the 19, 20 and 21 year old players the Wings have. Challenging for play off spot. Positively optimistic about the near future too boot. My friends in the Motor City are pumped.
Then we have some fans of other losing organizations that change GMs every five years, these fans are bashing Yzermans work??

 

[Menzinger]

The issue with their rebuild is they don't have a cornerstone on offense, they have one is Seider IMO although he has been getting the toughest minutes in the NHL so they will definitely need to add a top 4 dman.

The main concerns IMO are the offence, maybe Raymond turns into that guy but they lack star power and the depth to make up for the lack of star power.

The Wings experience can be a cautionary tale for some teams thinking of blowing things up and retooling. They've been bad for a while but never quite bad(or lucky?)enough to drafting superstar talent.

Imo it's a bad sign when folks point to what front office execs did on other teams to defend their current actions.

 

[Crunchy]

Except Holland drafted Zadina

Right, but Yzerman taking over the franchise he was liking banking on that 6th overall winger being a building block.

 

[eojsmada]

Right, but Yzerman taking over the franchise he was liking banking on that 6th overall winger being a building block.

I don't think he knew what he had, honestly. And still doesn't to some degree. The first two years he spent evaluating the players to see who to keep and who he might want to hold on to.

 

[Bleedred]

What dumb UFA contract do you think he signs this year? That’s what he’s been doing the last two years.

All that does is ensure they finish between 7th and 11th in the conference.

Not good enough to be a threat in the playoffs and not bad enough to bottom out for another impact pick.

And the whole “I believe in the Yzerplan” sounds like some shit a bunch of aliens from outer space would repeat after they landed on earth.

Or some weird Marshall Applewhite type of cult.

“We still believe in the Yzerplan! If we eat the jello he’ll take us in the spaceship up to heaven!”.

 

[Ezekial]

What dumb UFA contract do you think he signs this year? That’s what he’s been doing the last two years.

All that does is ensure they finish between 7th and 11th in the conference.

Not good enough to be a threat in the playoffs and not bad enough to bottom out for another impact pick.

And the whole “I believe in the Yzerplan” sounds like some shit a bunch of aliens from outer space would repeat after they landed on earth.

Or some weird Marshall Applewhite type of cult.

“We still believe in the Yzerplan! If we eat the jello he’ll take us in the spaceship up to heaven!”.

Fan of team who has 3 more top 5 picks (2 #1 overalls + 1 #2 overall) since 2017 and is still lower in the standings with 1 more playoff game win in that span has very harsh opinions.

 

[Bleedred]

Fan of team who has 3 more top 5 picks (2 #1 overalls + 1 #2 overall) since 2017 and is still lower in the standings with 1 more playoff game win in that span has very harsh opinions.

You don't think more lottery wins would help Detroit? Instead of signing UFA's like Chiarot, Holl, Compher, Copp, etc?

Not all these of signings are bad, but he didn't need to sign all of them.

And signing Chiarot at all sucks. He's a complete joke.

I have plenty of gripes about my organization, like Brodeur working for the team and running the goalie department, which has been a disaster under his watch. Letting Andrew Brunette walk to keep Ruff, only to fire him 60 games into the next season.

But our lottery picks are NOT what's wrong with my team. And that includes Luke Hughes and Nemec, who were top 2-4 picks.

Well, Jack Hughes is a problem because he's injured and they trot him out there anyway. It'll be lovely when he misses part of next season rehabbing whatever is wrong right now because they wouldn't shut him down earlier and kept him playing during junk time and a non-existent fake playoff race that we weren't in this late to begin with.

The problems right now are the bottom of the roster, a couple of injuries, Travis Green is one of the worst coaches the NHL has had in the last decade. Letting Brunette go was a DISASTER.

 

[Ezekial]

You don't think more lottery wins would help Detroit? Instead of signing UFA's like Chiarot, Holl, Compher, Copp, etc?

Not all these of signings are bad, but he didn't need to sign all of them.

And signing Chiarot at all sucks. He's a complete joke.

I have plenty of gripes about my organization, like Brodeur working for the team and running the goalie department, which has been a disaster under his watch. Letting Andrew Brunette walk to keep Ruff, only to fire him 60 games into the next season.

But our lottery picks are NOT what's wrong with my team. And that includes Luke Hughes and Nemec, who were top 2-4 picks.

It's just funny to read such harsh opinions when your team is basically Edmonton Oilering before they were even any good

 

[Our Lady Peace]

It's become quite clear that certain posters in this thread are intentionally acting obtuse and driving home the same points in a roundabout way without actually considering important contexts like;

• the pitifully dire state of Detroit when Yzerman took over
• while in such a state, a GM committing to a rebuild and staying committed to that goal in an unprecedented scouting and cap space landscape
• his situation with Detroit now vs TBL is much different and comes with more difficulties (e.g. lack of elite talent already insulated, needing more time to add top prospects)

If want to have a discussion about certain aspects of him GM tenure and critique him, that's fine. However, the drafting and developing, (spoiler: something that actually takes years of patience) he has been doing extremely well considering the odds are quite literally mathematically against him...

...To that point, if you're doing a rebuild from complete ground zero, what he's doing is exactly what should be done. If you're not satisfied with it, well, Wings fans have suffered a long ass time and are willing to wait a bit longer through these current growing pains if you aren't.

 

[Bleedred]

It's just funny to read such harsh opinions when your team is basically Edmonton Oilering before they were even any good

So? Even if I thought my team was being run so poorly, that doesn’t mean I can’t critique your team.

I also don’t see the hockey world sucking off Tom Fitzgerald the way they do to Yzerman.

I’ve defended Yzerman for the fact that Holland FUBAR’d that team worse than Lou did to ours. So I’ve said they probably shouldn’t really be good until about 2026.

But the things he’s done seem to wanna speed that up a bit, while also just making them a mediocre team, rather than a contending team.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

For the life of me I still cannot believe he actually intentionally acquired Jeff Petry.

So far today, he's hit Larkin in the kneecap with a slap shot, and just turned it over twice in the span of six seconds and fell right on his ass afterward.

That comes on the heels of a hilariously awful -3 performance against Carolina that even had Mickey Redmond openly calling him out on the broadcast.

 

[Dotter]

Q: "When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?"

When progress fails!

Each year the club has progressively gotten better and are clearly on the rise. Where you people get the idea that Yzerman is supposed to go all in now is mind boggling to say the least.

Ownership, unlike past seasons, are showing they are willing to spend cap space. Problem is there's not a lot of draw yet to get good UFA players on short contracts. So Yzerman is spending on vets. Tradable vets as he starts injecting young replacements.

That leads to the farm system. It's full of talent and has some exciting players. Am I overrating them by saying that? I don't think so. I think there's some kids in the system that are poised to come in and help keep the trend moving up.

I see some people are criticizing Yzerman's drafting. That's more mind boggling thought process from uninformed posters. I think in do time that comments will come back to prove a lot of people's ignorance.

There's legit reasons why Yzerman's Yzerplan has been boasted in the media by real hockey intellects. Steve has been doing a superb job giving what he's had to work with. Find me a GM that can do what Yzerman has done with so little. You won't and you can't.

Wings, without question, make the playoffs if not for so many devastating and untimely injuries - Wings had to start a 4th string goalie this season. How is that Yzerman's fault?

And WTF are they playing real hockey in Sweden for that count as points? For a bubble team, that shit is a disadvantage.

I want to see what comes out of the 2024 draft before I start discrediting the team. I see Detroit ahead of all the rebuilding teams and continuously trending in the right direction... whereas the other rebuilding teams are perennial losers.

Wings are playing games that matter. It may not be enough, but they are learning real lessons on how to play when it matters. Yzerman knows more than anyone about losing. He's the guy that changed the Red Wings "Dead Things" era into a winning legacy it eventually became.

HFboards main board has become a place where insignificant people come to dog other teams. You know who you are... and now we know who you are.

 

[zar]

Proper and intelligent GMing a team in the NHL is a marathon, not a sprint. I think Yzerman has done a fine job. Some mistakes, sure, but show me a GM who didn’t make a mistake. Of course it’s not as easy as when you are a GM of a team in a no state income tax state.

 

[crab]

He’s a very good GM but also highly overrated. He inherited Stamkos and Hedman and some decent other pieces when he started with the Lightning. Its also a significant advantage running the Lightning who benefit from a much more attractive location for players (climate, no state income tax).

 

[norrisnick]

He’s a very good GM but also highly overrated. He inherited Stamkos and Hedman and some decent other pieces when he started with the Lightning. Its also a significant advantage running the Lightning who benefit from a much more attractive location for players (climate, no state income tax).

It's the same group of knee jerk hot take fans that crowned him as a god that are shitting on him now.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

 

[Dotter]

A lot of Yzerman's success in Tampa can be attributed to the fact that they hit a couple of home run picks outside the 1st round. Drafting guys like Point, Kucherov and even Cirelli outside the 1st would give any franchise a huge competitive advantage. Even if you look at non-Yzerman GM years they had non first round picks like Palat and Killorn be important pieces for them.

Looking at Detroit's draft history between 2019 and 2020, I don't think that anyone of the non first round picks even have the ceiling of a Killorn or a Palat, let alone the Kucherov's or the Point's of this world. It might be too early to write off the more recent drafts but I do think that something that Yzerman got way too much credit for was the Lightning's ability to draft really good players outside the 1st round for a short period of time.


I don't think that the 'Yzerplan' is a failure or that Yzerman is a bad GM because of this, but I do think that GM's get way too much credit/blame for drafting outside the 1st round. Considering that much of Yzerman's reputation is owed to the picks of Kucherov and Point in the first place should maybe have us question how much of his reputation was 'earned' in the first place.

You do realize it took 7 years after being drafted for Killorn to be a full time NHLer, right?

Using that logic, that means you won't see Yzerman's later rounds picks from 2019 playing in the NHL until 2026; 2020 play in 2027. There's a few guys picked later 2019 draft that look to be coming along nicely. Same thing with the 2020 draft.

Perspective.....................................................................................!

 

[SuperScript29]

I'm thinking Yzerman is on the hot seat if the Wings miss the playoffs next year, and possibly even fired if they don't make it two years from now.

 

[Dotter]

You don't think more lottery wins would help Detroit?

Try: Up-Down-Up-Down-Left-Right-Left-Right-B-A start.

They never won a lottery (let alone "more), and won't be in a position to win a lottery with Seider, Raymond and Larkin on the team.

DRWs will be hovering around 9-16 in the draft for a while. Is that spread so different that they need to try harder to teach players to lose? Or do you try to teach them to compete? I'm picking the latter.

Look at the perennial losers at the bottom. Who wants to be them?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Feel free to counter any of my points with actual analysis other than “but but Stevie said it was going to take time!!” as an excuse for why zero meaningful progress has been made by the end of year 5.



Splendid. Neither is mine. Sounds like you agree that the fact that Detroit has collapsed in the last month is a monumental failure, and the fact that Detroit is on the cusp of missing the playoffs for the 5th straight year under Yzerman ain’t cutting it.

We’re not having this discussion if Detroit didn’t utterly implode the last month (along with a terrible month of December). But they did, and this is Yzerman’s team and coaching staff.

Yzerman inherited a team that was nearly historically bad in 2020 (where they were “awarded” the 4th overall pick

Today they’re sitting just 2pts out of the playoffs and have a top 5 prospect pool.
How is that not making Any progress?

 

[wmupreds]

Do GM's usually get a 5 year leash? Wings fans are very patient.

They are only so patient because of who he is. Any other name and there would be a lot of restlessness.

Part of that is his track record, no doubt, but most of it is his name.

 

[Crunchy]

They are only so patient because of who he is. Any other name and there would be a lot of restlesness.

Part of that is his track record, no doubt, but most of it is his name.

Patience is a virtue

 

[wunderpanda]

Sorry you're suggesting that the group he inherited with the Wings of E Svechnikov, Cholowski, Hronek, Rasmussen, Zadina, and Veleno to be comparable to Stamkos, Hedman, Killorn?

no. i'm suggesting he inherited a better team (with cavy, msl, stamkos, hedman) in tampa and got a bit lucky drafting kucherov & vasi. and that it was his replacement that actually added the pieces to win 2 cups.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Hey I didn't say he's done a bad job, but I wouldn't say he's done a good job either. But "Far more". I don't think so.

They hit rock bottom his 1st year as GM. Ok, he only came along in April so you can say that there was nothing he could do that year. His next year he got them up to 7th in the division an improvement of one spot in the division. His next year they got up to 5th. Ok making progress. Last year, back down to 7th. This year... back up to 5th.

You are basically hammering home my comment about the metrics being arbitrary by choosing one that Yzerman and Detroit does not have control over. Sure, we'd like to climb higher in the division. But if the Wings improve to 100 points next season, but Tampa, Toronto, Boston and Florida still finish ahead, do you view that as no improvement? I mean they're still 5th right...

A more reasonable metric is actually WINS (when talking about winning more we usually refer to WINS).

2019-20: ~19 (pace)
2020-21: ~27 (pace)
2021-22: 32
2022-23: 35
2023-24: ~40 (current pace)

Would you say Kevyn Adams of the Sabres has done a good job? His first year the team was 8th (same as Yzerman's 1st year). So far the team has finished 5th, 5th and now probably 6th. He's rightly being criticized and nobody is talking about the Kevyn Plyn.

Again, judging more on what they as a team are doing and less on teams around them, I would consider Adams to have failed this season. They had 42 wins and were 1 point away from playoffs last season, and this season they are further away. I would point to some clear and obvious fumbles such as relying too much on Levi to save them in net and not signing enough veteran depth to bolster their young core. Most importantly - they took a step BACK after being so close to the playoffs. Yes, if that happens to Detroit next season I will be much harder on the team and Yzerman.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

They still look at least 4 years away from doing anything. Gotta wonder how long the Wings owners let this go on before making change.

And what exactly would you expect the "change" to do differently?