Proposal: What would you be willing to give up for...

[Snuggs]

Fair question. But I would not stop there. I'd add one more top six winger (ideally first line) and a fourth line grinder to really fix the offense, a depth defenseman, and another goalie (maybe Swayman if Boston came keep him?). Then you'd have:

<added wing> - Matthews - Raymond
Berggren - Larkin - Perron
Kasper - Copp - Kubalik
Fabbri - Suter - <added grinder>
(kids and spare parts as extras)

Seider - Walman
Maatta - Edvinsson (once healthy)
Chiarot - <depth defenseman>

Husso/Swayman


Now it's fair to still ask if Detroit is ready to hit the gas pedal. But between all the assets and being FORCED to spend just to hit the cap floor, they're definitely going to need to do something tangible, and a repeat summer of guys like Copp and Maatta doesn't seem to make sense unless it also includes at least one high end player, because that's their biggest need.

Again... This guy gets it.

Can't go sign guys like Compher/Gudas and REALLY act like you are a playoff contender without some luck, I mean really Kasper/Edvinsson would have to step in and be SO GOOD there rookie years. Bring in a big talent plus sign guys like this with the rookies or some rookies... then maybe Wings have something cooking.

 

[The Zermanator]

You can literally go sign someone. (Anyone)

There's lots of money to spend even after a (assumed) trade/extension for Matthews.(or even Nylander) People aren't grasping that part of this thing. Idk if people realize how much cash just needs to be spent to hit the cap floor in the next two seasons/years.

Ok who are the top 6 wings you want to sign? Takes two to tango. Bring Bertuzzi back? Do you want him long term at a moderate-high cap hit?

And that’s beside the point. Thinking it’s realistic to get a top 3-5 C in the entire league plus a very promising young goalie and not give up a single one of your team’s best assets is peak HFBoards.

 

[jkutswings]

I see Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, and Kasper all still on the roster.

How are Swayman and Matthews and your added top 6 wing being acquired?

Mostly picks.

If Boston cannot keep Swayman, he won't take much to land. Maybe one of those second rounders.

If Matthews works at all, it's something like a third team's center, Rasmussen, and a first rounder going to Toronto, and another pair of first rounders going to the third team.

The extra winger is the tricky part. It would need to be a special situation, like if Keller starts getting really vocal about leaving Arizona and the team loses some leverage. Then maybe something like Soderblom, one of Johansson/Wallinder, and 2-3 picks might get it done. They'd probably want more, but it's a discussion to be had.


In all likelihood Toronto says no to anything vaguely reasonable because they don't want Matthews staying in the division. But my point isn't to land him specifically - it's to stop hoarding picks and start dealing them to immediately improve the roster with the caliber of player that is not likely to be found using those picks.

Detroit has been phenomenal in finding very good players with the cards they've been dealt. But it's not realistic to expect them to find lottery-winning talent without ever winning the lottery, so package some picks and be aggressive in finding a stud or two to go with all the solid parts you have.

 

[The Zermanator]

Mostly picks.

If Boston cannot keep Swayman, he won't take much to land. Maybe one of those second rounders.

If Matthews works at all, it's something like a third team's center, Rasmussen, and a first rounder going to Toronto, and another pair of first rounders going to the third team.

The extra winger is the tricky part. It would need to be a special situation, like if Keller starts getting really vocal about leaving Arizona and the team loses some leverage. Then maybe something like Soderblom, one of Johansson/Wallinder, and 2-3 picks might get it done. They'd probably want more, but it's a discussion to be had.


In all likelihood Toronto says no to anything vaguely reasonable because they don't want Matthews staying in the division. But my point isn't to land him specifically - it's to stop hoarding picks and start dealing them to immediately improve the roster with the caliber of player that is not likely to be found using those picks.

Not hoarding picks is fine, I do agree they should be leveraged. But your expectations are way off.

First, you don’t think any other teams out there would offer more than a 2nd for Swayman? I find that very hard to believe.

As for your Matthews scenario, I posed a question in another comment that slipped by. Why is a 3rd team subsidizing Detroit’s acquisition of Matthews? You’re having Detroit give up mid-first round picks which just don’t have nearly the same value as established bona fide stars like Matthews. You think Carolina is going to be satisfied with two mid-firsts for Aho? That’s just not realistic. The central assumption which your proposal rests on is that there is some deal to be had for Matthews that doesn’t involve one of Larkin, Seider, Kasper, Raymond, and Edvinsson. That’s just not based in reality. Realistically, one or more of them are going the other way. It’s not that I wouldn’t want Matthews, it’s just that any realistic trade that brings him to Detroit is going to be a very bitter pill to swallow and I seriously doubt that would leave us in a better position going forward. In fact I think it would be one step forward, two steps back.

Keller would be a good target, and actually reasonably affordable. Even if just picks going the other way like you want. As for a centre, I’m of the mind that Larkin is a perfectly adequate 1C on a contender providing the rest of the team is good enough, we should be setting our sights on a solid 2C that can handle the reins for a couple years until Kasper is ready to assume that role. Doing it that way is much more realistic, affordable, and wouldn’t mortgage the future for a win now move on a team that is not in a position win now.

Lindholm should be the target. Take over the 2C role until Kasper is ready, then slide over to the wing.

Lindholm, Keller, and a 2nd pair RD would make for a fantastic offseason. And sure Swayman would be a good gamble as well. Maybe Cossa and a 3rd for him?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

You can literally go sign someone. (Anyone)

There's lots of money to spend even after a (assumed) trade/extension for Matthews.(or even Nylander) People aren't grasping that part of this thing. Idk if people realize how much cash just needs to be spent to hit the cap floor in the next two seasons/years.

Oh no, we're grasping it. Hell, I've even said so myself. But the talent isn't there in UFA. It's a really shitty pool of players in 2023 and with the way teams extend their young guys, it's not getting better. The Wings are going to have to start thinking Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson extensions pretty quickly here.

People not wanting to pony up the dough for Auston Matthews are idiots. If it's his contract $ you're worried about, you're an idiot. However, I don't want him because there is literally no way you acquire him without blowing a massive hole in the side of your boat. He goes UFA next year? I'm there with a pen with a max $. But I don't want to trade the farm for him if he's deadset on the desert. And if I'm Toronto, I'm not trading him for f***in anything unless he tells me he's dead set on the desert.

The Wings would be better keeping the players they have, building the way they are, drafting and hoping for a Matthews rather than going all-in. It's not time to go all-in, yet. The Wings don't have pocket kings and Toronto isn't quite at "suckin dick for Coke like Bob Sagat in Half Baked" level of desperation yet.

 

[jkutswings]

Not hoarding picks is fine, I do agree they should be leveraged. But your expectations are way off.

First, you don’t think any other teams out there would offer more than a 2nd for Swayman? I find that very hard to believe.

As for your Matthews scenario, I posed a question in another comment that slipped by. Why is a 3rd team subsidizing Detroit’s acquisition of Matthews? You’re having Detroit give up mid-first round picks which just don’t have nearly the same value as established bona fide stars like Matthews. You think Carolina is going to be satisfied with two mid-firsts for Aho? That’s just not realistic. The central assumption which your proposal rests on is that there is some deal to be had for Matthews that doesn’t involve one of Larkin, Seider, Kasper, Raymond, and Edvinsson. That’s just not based in reality. Realistically, one or more of them are going the other way. It’s not that I wouldn’t want Matthews, it’s just that any realistic trade that brings him to Detroit is going to be a very bitter pill to swallow and I seriously doubt that would leave us in a better position going forward. In fact I think it would be one step forward, two steps back.

Keller would be a good target, and actually reasonably affordable. Even if just picks going the other way like you want. As for a centre, I’m of the mind that Larkin is a perfectly adequate 1C on a contender providing the rest of the team is good enough, we should be setting our sights on a solid 2C that can handle the reins for a couple years until Kasper is ready to assume that role. Doing it that way is much more realistic, affordable, and wouldn’t mortgage the future for a win now move on a team that is not in a position win now.

Lindholm should be the target. Take over the 2C role until Kasper is ready, then slide over to the wing.

Lindholm, Keller, and a 2nd pair RD would make for a fantastic offseason. And sure Swayman would be a good gamble as well. Maybe Cossa and a 3rd for him?

Detroit needs first line talent. Full stop. Even if you think Larkin is fine at 1C and expect Kasper to grow into a level of Larkin clone at 2C, at bare minimum they need one first line winger and another top six winger.

As for Swayman, I'm willing to sweeten the trade, but not even considering Cossa. Cossa is the long term answer; I just want a capable tandem with Husso for another 1-2 years while the kid gets ready to start his NHL career.

 

[The Zermanator]

Detroit needs first line talent. Full stop. Even if you think Larkin is fine at 1C and expect Kasper to grow into a level of Larkin clone at 2C, at bare minimum they need one first line winger and another top six winger.

As for Swayman, I'm willing to sweeten the trade, but not even considering Cossa. Cossa is the long term answer; I just want a capable tandem with Husso for another 1-2 years while the kid gets ready to start his NHL career.

I mean, I think Swayman has a bright career ahead of him, but either way I don’t think goaltending is a problem area other than getting a more reliable and consistent option as backup. Totally fine with sticking with Cossa. But for the record, Swayman has shown a lot more. He’s proven he can hang in the NHL. Cossa hasn’t even done that for the AHL yet.

As for first line talent, both Lindholm and Keller would fit the bill. Debrincat is another option. And none of those guys would cost nearly as much as someone like Matthews.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I agree that they need top line talent. I just think we need to target the guys like Keller or Connor or someone like pre-breakout Tage Thompson or Josh Norris. Unless Matthews demands out, a guy like him carries too much equity above and beyond his talent. You're paying the premium for a guy like that if you target him.

Like I'm not saying to not be aggressive. But the big splashy move for the big splashy asset isn't what Yzerman has ever done. He's dealt for phenomenal players, but they're usually the guy ready to break out or who is underutilized where he was, not walking into the GM meetings knockin the door down with his Schwanz.

Frankly, if they didn't already have him... trading for Auston Matthews would be the Toronto thing to do. Damn the torpedoes, add the big name.

 

[Winger98]

Oh no, we're grasping it. Hell, I've even said so myself. But the talent isn't there in UFA. It's a really shitty pool of players in 2023 and with the way teams extend their young guys, it's not getting better. The Wings are going to have to start thinking Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson extensions pretty quickly here.

People not wanting to pony up the dough for Auston Matthews are idiots. If it's his contract $ you're worried about, you're an idiot. However, I don't want him because there is literally no way you acquire him without blowing a massive hole in the side of your boat. He goes UFA next year? I'm there with a pen with a max $. But I don't want to trade the farm for him if he's deadset on the desert. And if I'm Toronto, I'm not trading him for f***in anything unless he tells me he's dead set on the desert.

The Wings would be better keeping the players they have, building the way they are, drafting and hoping for a Matthews rather than going all-in. It's not time to go all-in, yet. The Wings don't have pocket kings and Toronto isn't quite at "suckin dick for Coke like Bob Sagat in Half Baked" level of desperation yet.

Can they allow him to walk for nothing? Players aren't likely to tell you the truth if they are planning on leaving. They seem way more likely to go the Suter route, stringing you along the whole time, and immediately walking to where they want when the opportunity arises. It would be unpopular but I think you offer Matthews the best you are going to offer. He says no, you deal him over the summer. Toronto is deep enough to cover for his loss, to an extent. Dealing him over the summer gives you time to make other moves. And you probably get a better return for him now than in next March.

Also, it's not like you're dealing the play driver from a Cup winner.

 

[Bench]

They seem way more likely to go the Suter route, stringing you along the whole time, and immediately walking to where they want when the opportunity arises.

What's funny about that is I remember a guy here on HFboards broke the news he was leaving Nashville way early. Months before UFA. This Preds poster ended up hanging out and drinking with the then backup goalie... Lindback, 99% sure. The guy even posted a photo of him and Lindback.

Anyway, Lindback spilled the beans to this guy that Suter was on his way out. At this point I had already started imagining him in a Wings jersey.

Also in the story Lindback was a Battlestar Galactica fan which I was obsessed with at the time so that is also logged into my memory banks. So say we all!

 

[DoMakc]

I don't thik Red Wings are good partner for Matthews trade. Leafs want to win now, they will need a replacement and some more. They don't need Raymond and Berggren, because they already have enough skilled wingers (and Tavares is also a winger at this point of his career). So they'll ask for Larkin, Edvinsson, Kasper, or at least I would ask for those assets. But there are teams who have more depth currently and who can give Leafs more win now assets.

And from Red Wings perspective, are you willing to give up those asset for one guaranteed year of Matthews? Even if he re-signs, does Matthews without Larkin, Edvinsson and Kasper makes so much difference? It is more difficult to surround Matthews with free agents without cheap talent on entry-level and bridge contracts.

 

[dekelikekocur]

If I'm adding an established high end 1C, then any draft picks going forward after 9 overall this year have very little value to me, because I'm pushing to open my window of contention right now.

If it guts the players and prospects already drafted, then yeah I'm saying no. But if it's something like one decent player (maybe a Rasmussen), 17 this year and both firsts next year? I do that all day if I'm confident that a guy like Matthews is who I need and I get him extended.

Adding somebody of that caliber improves half a dozen roster spots by slotting guys where they belong. That's an absolutely massive boost to the team.

Adding 1 player to Det's roster doesn't improve half a dozen roster spots. It puts Larkin @ 2c, and Copp @ 3c. It literally does shit for pretty much any other part of the lineup.

 

[jkutswings]

Adding 1 player to Det's roster doesn't improve half a dozen roster spots. It puts Larkin @ 2c, and Copp @ 3c. It literally does shit for pretty much any other part of the lineup.

Raymond and whomever is the other 1W is now playing with Matthews. Berggren and Perron (or whomever you have at the wings on line 2) are now playing with Larkin instead of Copp. And if Copp is 3C instead of 2C, then his wingers have him instead of Suter or Veleno.

That's 6 forwards who all get a bump in center, not to mention Larkin and Copp having easier matchups.

 

[dekelikekocur]

Raymond and whomever is the other 1W is now playing with Matthews. Berggren and Perron (or whomever you have at the wings on line 2) are now playing with Larkin instead of Copp. And if Copp is 3C instead of 2C, then his wingers have him instead of Suter or Veleno.

That's 6 forwards who all get a bump in center, not to mention Larkin and Copp having easier matchups.

Matthews doesn't drive the play on his line, Marner does. So you wouldn't see any increased production out of Ray or Perron unless they take over driving the play. I don't honestly think the 2nd line wingers will see a production increase playing with Larkin, I do see Larkin's production going down. Most of our 2nd line wingers have been tried with Larkin last year to pretty mediocre results. We need better wingers, we also need (or may have) a real 2nd line center, we also need a RHD and a decent pair of third pair defenders, a backup goalie, and to jettison Chiarot into the sun.

People need to stop looking for some magical quick fix. Our team sucks, it's painful to watch at times but occasionally we get to see some bright spots. (Berg making the team this year, Kasper getting a game, Ed showing some improvement, Mazur signing his ELC and then playing decently in GR and WC). Yzerman seems to have his own internal timeline that he's working off of, I wouldn't expect any random accelerations, shortcuts etc to change it outside of something we draft(ed) showing up and having a wow factor during training camp that forces their way onto the team.

 

[jkutswings]

People need to stop looking for some magical quick fix. Our team sucks, it's painful to watch at times but occasionally we get to see some bright spots. (Berg making the team this year, Kasper getting a game, Ed showing some improvement, Mazur signing his ELC and then playing decently in GR and WC). Yzerman seems to have his own internal timeline that he's working off of, I wouldn't expect any random accelerations, shortcuts etc to change it outside of something we draft(ed) showing up and having a wow factor during training camp that forces their way onto the team.

I guess that's where we disagree then. I don't think the team sucks at all. I think they're 2-3 pieces away from absolutely making the playoffs, then growing into a legit contender over the following few seasons.

 

[dekelikekocur]

I guess that's where we disagree then. I don't think the team sucks at all. I think they're 2-3 pieces away from absolutely making the playoffs, then growing into a legit contender over the following few seasons.

Just barely making the playoffs doesn't mean you don't suck, it just means you don't suck quite enough to golf sooner.

I don't want a team that just "gets in and we'll see what happens". That era of Holland pissed me off to no end because it's limbo. I have more faith in Yzerman not stagnating in that territory but we have quite a few holes to fill before that stage.

 

[jkutswings]

Just barely making the playoffs doesn't mean you don't suck, it just means you don't suck quite enough to golf sooner.

I don't want a team that just "gets in and we'll see what happens". That era of Holland pissed me off to no end because it's limbo. I have more faith in Yzerman not stagnating in that territory but we have quite a few holes to fill before that stage.

You misunderstand me. I completely agree that participation trophies are typically worthless. I think that the pieces already drafted, in combination with 2-3 adds, can develop into a Cup winner in the next 5 years.

 

[dekelikekocur]

You misunderstand me. I completely agree that participation trophies are typically worthless. I think that the pieces already drafted, in combination with 2-3 adds, can develop into a Cup winner in the next 5 years.

Ahh, ok. Yea, I think we're getting there and hoping like hell we get Dvorsky(sp?) at 9 and by some random weird luck get Reinbacher at 17th. (For some reason I know we aren't getting either but that's my hope for this years 1st round picks).

 

[The Zermanator]

I guess that's where we disagree then. I don't think the team sucks at all. I think they're 2-3 pieces away from absolutely making the playoffs, then growing into a legit contender over the following few seasons.

I also think that. It’s just Matthews is not that piece man. You’re penciling in these lineups thinking we can get Matthews for some mid-first round picks without giving up anything else of value.

Boston had 3 mid-firsts a handful of years ago all in the same draft, and what did they walk away with? A big fat nothing in the grand scheme of things. The odds of a mid-first round player turning into a significant piece is relatively low. Like out of 3 picks I would reasonably expect one of them to become an impact player, and that impact would be significantly less than what Matthews brings. Would you trade Seider for a few picks that you might hit on of them for a player that is likely much less impactful than Seider? It makes zero sense from Toronto’s side of things.

If I’m Toronto I want one of Larkin/Seider, one of Kasper/Edvinsson, and then we can start talking picks. Guy’s a guaranteed 50 goal scorer if he plays a full season, with an outside chance at 60 or more if he has a hot season. He’s not going to be traded for anything less than a king’s ransom, and we’d be competing with about 29 other teams (Edmonton the only holdout). I would not be happy with the state of the team if that were to happen.

 

[jkutswings]

I also think that. It’s just Matthews is not that piece man. You’re penciling in these lineups thinking we can get Matthews for some mid-first round picks without giving up anything else of value.

Boston had 3 mid-firsts a handful of years ago all in the same draft, and what did they walk away with? A big fat nothing in the grand scheme of things. The odds of a mid-first round player turning into a significant piece is relatively low. Like out of 3 picks I would reasonably expect one of them to become an impact player, and that impact would be significantly less than what Matthews brings. Would you trade Seider for a few picks that you might hit on of them for a player that is likely much less impactful than Seider? It makes zero sense from Toronto’s side of things.

If I’m Toronto I want one of Larkin/Seider, one of Kasper/Edvinsson, and then we can start talking picks. Guy’s a guaranteed 50 goal scorer if he plays a full season, with an outside chance at 60 or more if he has a hot season. He’s not going to be traded for anything less than a king’s ransom, and we’d be competing with about 29 other teams (Edmonton the only holdout). I would not be happy with the state of the team if that were to happen.

1) I'm not saying that Matthews has to be the trade target. Just that I'd be targeting guys who are a no brainer on the first line, whether at C or W.

2) In this particular hypothetical, Toronto is not getting just picks. They want to win now, but they're losing Matthews whether they like it or not, so they're getting a first line center from a team that wants to rebuild after fizzling out for several years (i.e., Winnipeg or Calgary).

If I'm Toronto and I'm being honest, getting a combination of somebody like Lindholm, plus a young gritty forward like Rasmussen, plus a first rounder, is about all I could realistically expect from even an elite forward if he's hellbent on leaving with a clock ticking down to July 1. I'm sure there are other teams that might have a slightly better offer, but it's not going to be something that blows the above out of the water unless both of the following are met: guaranteed extension and Auston goes public with several teams he would be happy to play for, to drive up the bidding war.

So I was talking about 3 teams on paper that each had their goals met: Toronto deals a guy who wants out, in exchange for players they can use, cap flexibility to sign more players they can use, and a first rounder to flip for a player they can use; somebody like Calgary who is on record for wanting to change their core and give young guys a chance to play; and somebody like Detroit who has spare assets to accelerate the rebuild with a first line player.

 

[The Zermanator]

1) I'm not saying that Matthews has to be the trade target. Just that I'd be targeting guys who are a no brainer on the first line, whether at C or W.

2) In this particular hypothetical, Toronto is not getting just picks. They want to win now, but they're losing Matthews whether they like it or not, so they're getting a first line center from a team that wants to rebuild after fizzling out for several years (i.e., Winnipeg or Calgary).

If I'm Toronto and I'm being honest, getting a combination of somebody like Lindholm, plus a young gritty forward like Rasmussen, plus a first rounder, is about all I could realistically expect from even an elite forward if he's hellbent on leaving with a clock ticking down to July 1. I'm sure there are other teams that might have a slightly better offer, but it's not going to be something that blows the above out of the water unless both of the following are met: guaranteed extension and Auston goes public with several teams he would be happy to play for, to drive up the bidding war.

So I was talking about 3 teams on paper that each had their goals met: Toronto deals a guy who wants out, in exchange for players they can use, cap flexibility to sign more players they can use, and a first rounder to flip for a player they can use; somebody like Calgary who is on record for wanting to change their core and give young guys a chance to play; and somebody like Detroit who has spare assets to accelerate the rebuild with a first line player.

Definitely with you on targeting first liners, but that can describe a whole range of players. Keller is a first liner, and so is McDavid. I think it’s more realistic to be going after guys on the former’s end of the spectrum than the latter.

As far as Matthews, you’re banking on scenarios that I don’t think are going to happen. If Matthews doesn’t re-sign, and that’s still a massive if IMO, I can’t see Toronto allowing this situation to drag on until their backs are against the wall. They’ll make sure he’s either re-signed or they’ll be fielding offers well before free agency hits. Lindholm is also reaching free agency so not sure how adding Rasmussen and a mid first is going to be a competitive offer.

And regarding the 3-way trade, there’s still a value problem. I’ll just stay consistent with the Calgary example:

Toronto gets: Lindholm, Rasmussen, 1st.
Calgary gets: 2x 1sts
Detroit gets: Matthews

Lindholm is a high quality player, is Calgary satisfied with two mid 1sts? Unless they’re committing to a tank I don’t see how this helps them.

Matthews is a 60 goal scorer, is Toronto satisfied with getting another pending UFA, a guy who’s yet to crack even 30 points (granted he only played 59 games this year), and a mid first? I’d be livid if I were a Toronto fan, bless their abused hearts.

Detroit makes out like gangbusters here so if it materializes great, I just don’t think such a sweetheart deal pops up for a top 3 goal scorer.

I would just cut out the middle man and go for Lindholm directly, forget about Matthews.

 

[Snuggs]

Auston Matthews has a No trade clause that kicks in at the start of July or something... that's why I bring up moving him now, before the draft.

 

[jkutswings]

Definitely with you on targeting first liners, but that can describe a whole range of players. Keller is a first liner, and so is McDavid. I think it’s more realistic to be going after guys on the former’s end of the spectrum than the latter.

As far as Matthews, you’re banking on scenarios that I don’t think are going to happen. If Matthews doesn’t re-sign, and that’s still a massive if IMO, I can’t see Toronto allowing this situation to drag on until their backs are against the wall. They’ll make sure he’s either re-signed or they’ll be fielding offers well before free agency hits. Lindholm is also reaching free agency so not sure how adding Rasmussen and a mid first is going to be a competitive offer.

And regarding the 3-way trade, there’s still a value problem. I’ll just stay consistent with the Calgary example:

Toronto gets: Lindholm, Rasmussen, 1st.
Calgary gets: 2x 1sts
Detroit gets: Matthews

Lindholm is a high quality player, is Calgary satisfied with two mid 1sts? Unless they’re committing to a tank I don’t see how this helps them.

Matthews is a 60 goal scorer, is Toronto satisfied with getting another pending UFA, a guy who’s yet to crack even 30 points (granted he only played 59 games this year), and a mid first? I’d be livid if I were a Toronto fan, bless their abused hearts.

Detroit makes out like gangbusters here so if it materializes great, I just don’t think such a sweetheart deal pops up for a top 3 goal scorer.

I would just cut out the middle man and go for Lindholm directly, forget about Matthews.

You're getting hung up on specifics. Maybe it's not Calgary. Maybe it takes another pick here or there, or a different player. I just mean that if half of the rumors swirling around the league are true, this summer will see several big names changing towns, and it's entirely possible for Detroit to be part of a trade that brings one here.

Between Toronto and Arizona and anybody else that enters Camp Chaos, there's too much smoke for Detroit to not take advantage of their flexibility.

 

[The Zermanator]

You're getting hung up on specifics. Maybe it's not Calgary. Maybe it takes another pick here or there, or a different player. I just mean that if half of the rumors swirling around the league are true, this summer will see several big names changing towns, and it's entirely possible for Detroit to be part of a trade that brings one here.

Between Toronto and Arizona and anybody else that enters Camp Chaos, there's too much smoke for Detroit to not take advantage of their flexibility.

I think we’re on the same page with 90% of this. I don’t think we should be building solely through the draft anymore. If a free agent pops up that’s a good fit, go for it. But those types of players we’re wanting don’t make it there very often. So that leaves trading. I’m definitely on the same page as you that it’s time to start leveraging draft and prospect assets to make some moves to target specific players.

I’m really just objecting to this idea that Matthews is that guy. I wouldn’t say I’m hung up on specifics, specifics matter when it comes to trades. And I don’t see adequate value being included in these Matthews proposals to make it realistic, especially considering we’re in the same division. And if he gets dealt this summer with a full year for his new team to negotiate an extension, I really don’t see Toronto trading him on the basis of being an upcoming FA. If he were to come to Detroit, I think there would be a lot of sticker shock at the price paid.

Lindholm, Keller, Debrincat, Connor, these are the types of guys we should be going after.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

I would take Matthews. We need goals, this dude pots them. Prices need to be right however, both trade and extension.