Speculation: What to do for Goals?

[Lafleurs Guy]

You and I certainly are singing from the same hymn sheet... Albeit at the risk of sounding like the same broken record...

It is a bit of a broken record but when you talk about what's wrong with the team what comes up? Bad players being played over good ones and DD being used as the number one center.

The real "elephant" in the room is not DD, its our coach. He's the one who's decreed DD to be our number one guy. He's the one who gives **** minutes to better players and he's the one who decided to play Mouillion over Beaulieu last season.

There's no excuse for this. And if this kind of crap happens again this year he deserves a very quick canning. And the truth is he never should've been renewed to begin with.

The good news is that we've seen that he actually can implement a good system. If (and its a huge IF) he does this and IF he stops with the stupid roster moves, benchings and throwing players under the bus... then okay fine, keep him around. But he's got to change, otherwise he's just a hinderance to us.

 

[Kojo]

But he's got to change, otherwise he's just a hinderance to us.

I believe he learned from his mistakes and if he didn't then at least he prepared this team to be effective for when they hire a potentially better coach.

 

[25get]

So with the departure of Vanek to Minnesota, the Habs are not only in need of an elite right-wing, but another elite-level scoring talent. I'm not suggesting that Vanek did much or even sparked their offence at all, but his playing of top-line RW helped solidify the lineup and give it more depth.

Now the line-up is gonna look something like this:

Patches-DD-Gallagher
Galchenyuk-Pleks-Parenteau
Bourque-Eller-Sekac
Prust-Malholtra-Weise
Bournival, Moen

Markov-Subban
Emelin-Gilbert
Beaulieu-Weaver
Tinordi

Price
Budaj

My question is what do you guys think will happen? Two options:

1. Players step up (Galcheyuk, Eller, Sekac)

2. MB makes a move for a scorer

First line seems a given:
Patches-DD-Parenteau
Parenteau will be given a chance to play on the first line. He should be able to perform with DD as a playmaker.

Bourque-Plek-Sekac
Sekac is a Czeck, he should have a chance to play with Plek.

Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher.
Unless the first line is in trouble, Gallagher will be back with his linemates.

The Bourque-Eller duo was also very good in PO.
So you could see:
Galchenyuk-Plek-Sekac and Bourque-Eller-Gallagher

We need more offense from the backend: Gilbert should improve over Gorges and PK should play for 9M.
Then Gallagher, Eller, Galchenyuk must improve their numbers.
There is also Beaulieu. If he can raise his level to a top-4, we are going to be very strong.

BTW, you do understand that Vanek was our best offensive player until he was gone for the last 10 games of the PO?
First 6 games, he was paired with Patches and DD and scored 5 points in 6 games. Then he was paired with Plek and Bournival for six games. After four games with them, he was gone for the rest of the PO.

Let's see what he does with Parise and Koivu...

 

[Kojo]

BTW, you do understand that Vanek was our best offensive player until he was gone for the last 10 games of the PO?

Good post overall but I had to comment about this.

Kinda hard to not produce playing with DD and Patches, and Subban, when you're Vanek.

 

[Price is Wright]

We were weak on five on five goals and didn't score on the PP like we usually do.

4 on 4 though? We were pretty great.

We sucked scoring at home but were average on the road.

21 of Parenteau's 33 points came at home for Colorado. That's 21 points in 26 home games. He had 22 home points in 24 home games in 12-13 for Colorado as well.

Guy is really good scoring at home.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

It is a bit of a broken record but when you talk about what's wrong with the team what comes up? Bad players being played over good ones and DD being used as the number one center.

The real "elephant" in the room is not DD, its our coach. He's the one who's decreed DD to be our number one guy. He's the one who gives **** minutes to better players and he's the one who decided to play Mouillion over Beaulieu last season.

There's no excuse for this. And if this kind of crap happens again this year he deserves a very quick canning. And the truth is he never should've been renewed to begin with.

The good news is that we've seen that he actually can implement a good system. If (and its a huge IF) he does this and IF he stops with the stupid roster moves, benchings and throwing players under the bus... then okay fine, keep him around. But he's got to change, otherwise he's just a hinderance to us.

And conversely, one of the most important investment that one can make in a sporting team, other than the GM, is the coach. Well that and keeping one's elite talent.

You see it in every sport. In the Premier League, Man U's top brass tried to cut corners by opting for (fellow Scot) David Moyes strictly on Alex Ferguson's recommendation, only to find that he had deer-in-headlight qualities. It looks like, at the very least, they are thinking the hiring process through with his successor Van Gaal, who seems more at home in the elite coaching community, although the jury is still out at Man U. Likewise, teams like Arsenal and Chelsea go out of their way to cultivate strong coaching, albeit with different approaches to recruiting them.

As a result, it does not make sense to be one of the few NHL teams that spend to the cap limit, including a $9m defenceman, while opting for a coach with such a haphazard approach to strategy and motivation.

 

[Kojo]

As a result, it does not make sense to be one of the few NHL teams that spend to the cap limit, including a $9m defenceman, while opting for a coach with such a haphazard approach to strategy and motivation.

And yet they beat Boston, our biggest rival. Yeah, fire that simpleton.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And conversely, one of the most important investment that one can make in a sporting team, other than the GM, is the coach. Well that and keeping one's elite talent.

You see it in every sport. In the Premier League, Man U's top brass tried to cut corners by opting for (fellow Scot) David Moyes strictly on Alex Ferguson's recommendation, only to find that he had deer-in-headlight qualities. It looks like, at the very least, they are thinking the hiring process through with his successor Van Gaal, who seems more at home in the elite coaching community, although the jury is still out at Man U. Likewise, teams like Arsenal and Chelsea go out of their way to cultivate strong coaching, albeit with different approaches to recruiting them.

As a result, it does not make sense to be one of the few NHL teams that spend to the cap limit, including a $9m defenceman, while opting for a coach with such a haphazard approach to strategy and motivation.

It is puzzling to say the least. And if the nonsense continues with benching Subban and playing DD as our number one, the guy should be fired by getting shot out of a cannon. Absolutely no way we should see that stupid **** again. Quite frankly we never should've seen it to begin with.

Queue the ol' - 100 point season! Conference Finalists! - comments from some posters now crediting MT with absolutely zero to back it up though.

And yet they beat Boston, our biggest rival. Yeah, fire that simpleton.

Case in point...

 

[Kojo]

It is puzzling to say the least. And if the nonsense continues with benching Subban and playing DD as our number one, the guy should be fired by getting shot out of a cannon. Absolutely no way we should see that stupid **** again. Quite frankly we never should've seen it to begin with.

Queue the ol' 100 point season! Conference Finalists! arguments now crediting MT with absolutely zero to back it up though.

If that ever happens and injuries aren't part of the equation I will be one of the first to agree. But getting shot out of a cannon might be too drastic.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If that ever happens and injuries aren't part of the equation I will be one of the first to agree. But getting shot out of a cannon might be too drastic.

I don't know man... I think I'd support the cannon. Last year was pretty frustrating with him, even with the final standings being what they were.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

a) Don't tell Bourque it is the regular season

b) Don't tell Pacioretty when you are in the playoffs

c) Don't ever play Prust/Moen/Weise above the 4th line

d) Don't play The Cube on the PP, PK, or ES

 

[habsfanatics*]

By not having Boullion/Murray out on the ice we should see an instant improvement imo.

 

[S Bah]

The Habs have to give their prospects icetime in the NHL sometime and it appears to be this year, no time like the present to break in their young Dmen. Along with Sekac, JDLR and Andrighetto, that makes five and possibly Nygren also on defence with Beaulieu and Tinordi. The Habs need an infusion of youngsters, now that Pacioretty, Price, Subban, Eller are becoming veterans and Gallagher & Galchenyuk are starting their 3rd yrs. also.

The Habs have a very young core of capable two-way players already, now their defence prospects have had their apprenticeships in the AHL and appear ready to step in. It may mean missing the playoffs for a season, but the leap ahead by giving Beaulieu & Tinordi lots of NHL icetime will be worth it for the 2015 - 2016 season's playoffs, IMHO.

The goals will come by giving the young prospects their opportunity, every team has to go through growing pains and the Habs are ready for that next step.

 

[Frank JT]

First line seems a given:
Patches-DD-Parenteau
Parenteau will be given a chance to play on the first line. He should be able to perform with DD as a playmaker.

Bourque-Plek-Sekac
Sekac is a Czeck, he should have a chance to play with Plek.

Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher.
Unless the first line is in trouble, Gallagher will be back with his linemates.

The Bourque-Eller duo was also very good in PO.
So you could see:
Galchenyuk-Plek-Sekac and Bourque-Eller-Gallagher

We need more offense from the backend: Gilbert should improve over Gorges and PK should play for 9M.
Then Gallagher, Eller, Galchenyuk must improve their numbers.
There is also Beaulieu. If he can raise his level to a top-4, we are going to be very strong.

BTW, you do understand that Vanek was our best offensive player until he was gone for the last 10 games of the PO?
First 6 games, he was paired with Patches and DD and scored 5 points in 6 games. Then he was paired with Plek and Bournival for six games. After four games with them, he was gone for the rest of the PO.

I agree with your lines. I'm expecting Galcheniuk becoming our best player Hoping for a trade this season. Nothing less. I'M expecting a big trade before the end of the season. One of our center will leave for a winger.

 

[Kafka]

My assumption:

1. Bergevin waits untill the training camp + few games to see which of Sekac/Andrighetto/De la Rose fills the last RW spot. I am pretty sure the first 2 will be good enough to play on one of the top 3 lines by Christmas. The question to me is: will one of them manage to earn a spot at the start of the season.

2. Galchenyuk is moved to center at some point... probably after an injury to one of Plekanec/Deharnais/Eller... eventually, one of them is traded for a LW.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

And yet they beat Boston, our biggest rival. Yeah, fire that simpleton.

My take, and I can't prove it, is that MB had a hand in revitalizing MT's strategy and emphasizing possession more. I also believe that MB suggested Beaulieu's insertion, because MT is extremely conservative and risk-averse; MT probably would not have done so otherwise.

By the same token, how would you explain the last game against the Rangers, with the season hanging in the balance, the team was pretty much unable to generate any offense and make tactical adjustments, with the result that they lost 1-0 despite a heroic effort from Tokarski?

I don't think that MT is a bottom-feeding coach, just like David Moyes was competent enough to guide Everton to top-10 finishes in the Premiership; but I believe that the Habs are a very talented team, especially when you factor in the scouting and the management, and that MT is not elite in the same way that Carey Price, PK Subban or even Trevor Timmins is elite. Especially from a tactical standpoint. He is a bit of a weak link in a strong organization, especially in a discussion on goal scoring. He may do himself justice more in a discussion on goal prevention.

 

[Blood On The Ice]

a) Don't tell Bourque it is the regular season

b) Don't tell Pacioretty when you are in the playoffs

c) Don't ever play Prust/Moen/Weise above the 4th line

d) Don't play The Cube on the PP, PK, or ES

e) Remind Galchenyuk he was drafted 3rd overall

 

[Monctonscout]

So with the departure of Vanek to Minnesota, the Habs are not only in need of an elite right-wing, but another elite-level scoring talent. I'm not suggesting that Vanek did much or even sparked their offence at all, but his playing of top-line RW helped solidify the lineup and give it more depth.

Now the line-up is gonna look something like this:

Patches-DD-Gallagher
Galchenyuk-Pleks-Parenteau
Bourque-Eller-Sekac
Prust-Malholtra-Weise
Bournival, Moen

Markov-Subban
Emelin-Gilbert
Beaulieu-Weaver
Tinordi

Price
Budaj

My question is what do you guys think will happen? Two options:

1. Players step up (Galcheyuk, Eller, Sekac)

2. MB makes a move for a scorer

one thing that would help would be a better PP, which Parenteau is pretty good at.

I wouldn't mind a deal for a scoring winger, but that may only happen in seson depending on cost...

 

[Roulin]

This thread brought to mind a quote in a recent Friedman article:

*The biggest mistake is separating offensive play from defensive play. "Madness. Both happen at the same time."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2014/08/in-search-of-vic-ferrari.html

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

This thread brought to mind a quote in a recent Friedman article:

*The biggest mistake is separating offensive play from defensive play. "Madness. Both happen at the same time."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2014/08/in-search-of-vic-ferrari.html

I was thinking that this was a weakness of my post above. However, if the two would be indisctinct, every player would be equally good at both, in any sport, which is just not true. As I aged as a hobbyist soccer player, into my 40s, my offensive acumen went down the toilet, but I got progressively better at defending.

 

[Roulin]

I was thinking that this was a weakness of my post above. However, if the two would be indisctinct, every player would be equally good at both, in any sport, which is just not true. As I aged as a hobbyist soccer player, into my 40s, my offensive acumen went down the toilet, but I got progressively better at defending.

Absolutely, and I think that kind of progression is true for a lot of players. The point though (I think), is that theoretically if your offensive skills declined at the same rate as your defensive skills improved, you'd have the exact same amount of value for your team at even strength. They wouldn't have to replace your offence (except on the PP), because the goal differential was evened out at the other end.

 

[HatTricK09]

Put puck at the net.

I raise you this

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Easy answer.

PK Subban.

For $9 million a year, all of our scoring problems will be solved.

Someone's still mad.

 

[Scriptor]

Put puck at the net.

I think Kostitsyn said put puck at the net, on the net, near the net, under the net, close to the net, over the net, on the inter net, anything related TO THE NET!

 

[madhi19]

Maholtra is going to help rise the face off %. That should help drive possession up... From possession to scoring chances and from scoring chances to more goals. The team is also bigger, so maybe we can either end the freaking dump and chase or actually make it work for a change.