What the Jets need to address positionally this off season

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Ehlers... Schief....Wheeler
Connor... Rozlo....Laine
Perrault....Little....ARmia
Copp...Lowry...Tanev

Petan.....13 forwards/ trade

Trouba.....Morrissey
Buff..... Kulikov
Myers.... Morrow
POOLMAN... Chariot

Possibly sell high on Myers/Dano combo on 18 draft day

 

[Ares]

I also don't like his arrogant attitude. Remember in 2016/17 he was saying he thought there was nothing wrong with his game back then too, same as he was saying during and after the Vegas series. Now, that might just be how he talks to the media, and deep inside he's burning up and is going to work even harder this off season. I don't know, so I'm not calling for him to be run out of town. I'm just saying I'm concerned.

I love Bucky's cocky attitude but to be fair he just said in today's media scrum that 'every hockey player is always looking to get better' when asked about how he would evaluate his performance in this year playoffs. It's true that he's only had one good season but I'm not concerned. We need a real backup though. Mason's not the guy for that job, I don't think.

 

[Ippenator]

He's far too expensive. He's carrying a cap hit of 8.5M.

I’m not sure of that really. Of course that’s an expensive salary, but seriously he is a great player, and I could really see him click well with Laine and maybe Ehlers as his wingers. He is big and very skilled. And he is nowadays an amazing skater for his size. He in fact clocked a clearly better top speed than McDavid and many other well known speedsters at the recent WHC tournament in Denmark (they measured the top speeds from all players in the tournament IIHF - Stats you’ve never seen before!). And the best thing about him is that although he has the wheels when really needed, he uses them smartly and is an especially skilled and cerebral player.

I think that the Jets would really need a player of that class as the 2nd line center, if they want to be a serious cup contender with the players they have otherwise. And I don’t think there are really many centers of that class available for much cheaper salaries. Maybe Stastny would be enough though, but I’m not absolutely sure, as he is already quite old and might be regressing. And Little is absolutely definitely not anykind of an option as the 2nd line center, if the Jets want to be a serious cup contender in the future. I can only laugh at talks about Little being still a good enough number two center. Nope, definitely ain’t gonna happen.

 

[Tommigun]

I’m not sure of that really. Of course that’s an expensive salary, but seriously he is a great player, and I could really see him click well with Laine and maybe Ehlers as his wingers. He is big and very skilled. And he is nowadays an amazing skater for his size. He in fact clocked a clearly better top speed than McDavid and many other well known speedsters at the recent WHC tournament in Denmark (they measured the top speeds from all players in the tournament). And the best thing about him is that although he has the wheels when really needed, he uses them smartly and is an especially skilled and cerebral player.

I think that the Jets would really need a player of that class as the 2nd line center, if they want to be a serious cup contender with the players they have otherwise. And I don’t think there are really many centers of that class available for much cheaper salaries. Maybe Stastny would be enough though, but I’m not absolutely sure, as he is already quite old and might be regressing. And Little is absolutely definitely not anykind of an option as the 2nd line center, if the Jets want to be a serious cup contender in the future. I can only laugh at talks about Little being still a good enough number two center. Nope, definitely ain’t gonna happen.

That salary would only work if we moved Little instead, which is not happening. We are in for a cap crunch so an additional 8.5M is just not possible. I'm not debating whether he's worth that salary, just saying there's no way the Jets could take on that contract moving forward.

 

[Ippenator]

That salary would only work if we moved Little instead, which is not happening. We are in for a cap crunch so an additional 8.5M is just not possible. I'm not debating whether he's worth that salary, just saying there's no way the Jets could take on that contract moving forward.

Then I do definitely agree with you. The high salary and the bad value with Little’s play is really a great pity for the Jets. He is an extremely expensive 3rd line center at the moment. And unfortunately I find it extremely hard to believe that he will get any better during the forthcoming seasons.

 

[DRW204]

Bryan Little has been underrated and underappreciated by this fan base for years. I can't remember a year, going back to when I started posting in the 2013/2014 season, that people haven't said he's a 3rd line centre, not good, bad contract, etc. It's true that from a points perspective he had a down year, but he still did a lot of what made him good in previous years IMO. He also still put up 43 points. It's true that he seemed to lack chemistry with Ehlers and Laine and that line was on fire for a time with Stastny, but even that seemed to wane.
I'd be more in favour of "spreading the wealth" a bit in terms of our talent, and reuniting Wheeler and Little and Sheif with Laine rather than firing Little into the sun or trading him for a bag of pucks.
I frankly am more concerned about the situation in net. We definitely need at minimum a bona fide backup to take some of the load from Hellebuyck, assuming that fatigue was the reason behind his very poor play in the Vegas series.
This will not be a popular opinion, but I am frankly not convinced that Hellebuyck is as good as his numbers this year were. He was quite bad in 2016/2017. He's only given us one good season so the sample size is not enough either way -- in other words, the jury is still out on him for me. He's been steady back there for sure, and I'll take steady -- we have enough talent up front that we don't NEED a superstar -- but he can't **** the bed like that on us in crucial games. I've frankly not been overawed by Hellebuyck all season and I kept meaning to write this but never did. Did he make the Jets look good, or did our talented forward and defence corps make him look good? I can't think of many games that he stole. I think in the playoffs the only game that he was the difference (in a positive way) in was game 1 against Nashville. That one he stole. He had a few stinkers, and then of course dropped four straight to Vegas three of which I'd pin on him.
I also don't like his arrogant attitude. Remember in 2016/17 he was saying he thought there was nothing wrong with his game back then too, same as he was saying during and after the Vegas series. Now, that might just be how he talks to the media, and deep inside he's burning up and is going to work even harder this off season. I don't know, so I'm not calling for him to be run out of town. I'm just saying I'm concerned.
Juxtapose him with the other young Vezina candidate in Andrei Vasilevskiy. He is one year younger than Hellebucyk. I didn't follow Tampa Bay too much during the regular season, but I can see his numbers. I have followed Tampa in the playoffs especially the Eastern Conference Finals and he has been very good and great when his team needed him the most going into Washington down 2-0. He didn't turn in another two poor performances like Hellebuyck he turned the series around.
I still suffer from PTSD from the Pavelec years maybe. I don't know, I'm just not sold on Hellebuyck after one great regular season and a rather "meh" playoffs that ended with us losing a series that we would have won if he was just average.

I would be concerned about his attitude if he didn’t work on his game. If he said all that at the end of the regular season last year and remained status quo as far as training and prep – yes sound the alarms. However, it is well-documented he made significant changes and strides in training in summer of 2017 to improve his game. I don’t doubt he will do the same this off-season, regardless of what he says to the media. Maybe he doesn't want to show his hand on which areas specifically he needs to work on so opponents dont target him?

You bring up our talented forward and D corps making Helle look good, yet you don’t bring up TBL’s for Vasilevskiy? He was pedestrian absolutely for his last half of the regular season.

 

[Daximus]

I'm not 100% sold on Roslovic taking over full time 2C duties yet. But you never know what an off season can do. That is a lot of responsibility for a sophomore though. He instantly takes on much tougher minutes and if he is on a line with any combo of Laine/Connor/Ehlers he will take on a lot of the defensive duties. I just don't see him as a strong enough player to have to carry a line defensively yet.

 

[Ippenator]

I'm not 100% sold on Roslovic taking over full time 2C duties yet. But you never know what an off season can do. That is a lot of responsibility for a sophomore though. He instantly takes on much tougher minutes and if he is on a line with any combo of Laine/Connor/Ehlers he will take on a lot of the defensive duties. I just don't see him as a strong enough player to have to carry a line defensively yet.

To me he doesn’t look also like a good enough playmaker for that role. At least at the moment. I believe that the first two centers in the team need to be truly great playmakers to get the best out of the great wingers that a team like the Jets has.

I don’t see this in Roslo, at least yet, and I’m not that sure if he will ever be that type of a player really. To me he seems maybe more like a very good 3rd line center option in the future. He seems more like a speedy grinder type, with a tad of playmaking skills too, but I’m not convinced if he will ever be a good enough playmaker to be a great number two center. Hopefully he will prove otherwise though.

 

[ERYX]

I would be concerned about his attitude if he didn’t work on his game. If he said all that at the end of the regular season last year and remained status quo as far as training and prep – yes sound the alarms. However, it is well-documented he made significant changes and strides in training in summer of 2017 to improve his game. I don’t doubt he will do the same this off-season, regardless of what he says to the media. Maybe he doesn't want to show his hand on which areas specifically he needs to work on so opponents dont target him?

You bring up our talented forward and D corps making Helle look good, yet you don’t bring up TBL’s for Vasilevskiy? He was pedestrian absolutely for his last half of the regular season.

No question Hellebuyck did work on his game and that's excellent. And I hope that he would have put in the same work regardless of whether Mason was signed or not. As I said, I'm willing to assume that this is just Hellebuyck's face that he shows to the media. I don't know ... maybe it helps with confidence/performance to be a bit cocky but it kind of smacks of Pavelec never owning his bad play. Is this a Flaherty coaching thing? I don't know, I admit this is all pure speculation.

Re: Vasilevskiy, I admit that I didn't follow the Lightening much at all. Only casually since my best friend is from Florida and grew up watching them. My main point being, Vasilevskiy (who's a year younger than Hellebuyck) is delivering when he's really needed this playoffs. Hellebuyck pooped the bed against Vegas in my view.

 

[Daximus]

To me he doesn’t look also like a good enough playmaker for that role. At least at the moment. I believe that the first two centers in the team need to be truly great playmakers to get the best out of the great wingers that a team like the Jets has.

I don’t see this in Roslo, at least yet, and I’m not that sure if he will ever be that type of a player really. To me he seems maybe more like a very good 3rd line option in the future. He seems more like a speedy grinder type, with a tad of playmaking skills too, but I’m not convinced if he will ever be a good enough playmaker to be a great number two center. Hopefully he will prove otherwise though.

I do get the impression he is more of a shoot first type with a good cycle game. That 2nd line center option needs to be sound positionally, quick enough off the rush, have great vision and be a great passer. This is why Stastny worked so well there. We basically need a Stastny clone.

 

[Daximus]

It's to bad Appleton isn't a center as I see a lot of that in his game. I thought he used to be? I think he mostly played RW with the Moose this year.

 

[kanadalainen]

I can see it also like this

Wheeler/Scheif/Connor
Laine/Roslovic/Ehlers
Perrault/Little/Tanev
Copp/Lowry/Armia

I like this second option.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

I don't see Roslovic going from 3rd line winger to two centre in one summer. That is very unrealistic.

A playmaking centre probably a European, might be the best choice between Laine, Ehlers.

Although, I would not be opposed to Laine joining Schef and Wheels, with Connor and Roslovic playing with Little. Little and Perrault I though created some chances but had no finish. I can see Connor helping with that.

 

[DRW204]

No question Hellebuyck did work on his game and that's excellent. And I hope that he would have put in the same work regardless of whether Mason was signed or not. As I said, I'm willing to assume that this is just Hellebuyck's face that he shows to the media. I don't know ... maybe it helps with confidence/performance to be a bit cocky but it kind of smacks of Pavelec never owning his bad play. Is this a Flaherty coaching thing? I don't know, I admit this is all pure speculation.

Re: Vasilevskiy, I admit that I didn't follow the Lightening much at all. Only casually since my best friend is from Florida and grew up watching them. My main point being, Vasilevskiy (who's a year younger than Hellebuyck) is delivering when he's really needed this playoffs. Hellebuyck pooped the bed against Vegas in my view.

May 2017...well before Mason signing
Friedman: Connor Hellebuyck is making off-season changes to his training program

I would never disclose publicly on what areas of my game needs improvement/I need to work on especially at a position when you're "on an island" like goalies.

Helle even while pooping the bed finishes the POs with a 922 SV%. Just on the surface, you're not going to win many games scoring 1-2 goals either.

 

[Ippenator]

I do get the impression he is more of a shoot first type with a good cycle game. That 2nd line center option needs to be sound positionally, quick enough off the rush, have great vision and be a great passer. This is why Stastny worked so well there. We basically need a Stastny clone.

I agree otherwise definitely, but ideally that Stastny clone would still have a bit fresher legs than the original Stastny. Not that Stastny is exactly bad in that area, but it would still probably help if the clone would be at least a bit younger and also at least by some margin speedier.

 

[raideralex99]

Re: Vasilevskiy, I admit that I didn't follow the Lightening much at all. Only casually since my best friend is from Florida and grew up watching them. My main point being, Vasilevskiy (who's a year younger than Hellebuyck) is delivering when he's really needed this playoffs. Hellebuyck pooped the bed against Vegas in my view.

Vasilevskiy had more BAD games than Hellebuyck. The first 2 games against the Capitals he allowed 10 goals was pulled once and had a save percentage of .840 and .838. Hellebuyck is not the reason why the Jets lost.

 

[Ippenator]

Vasilevskiy had more BAD games than Hellebuyck. The first 2 games against the Capitals he allowed 10 goals was pulled once and had a save percentage of .840 and .838. Hellebuyck is not the reason why the Jets lost.

I agree. But still, as contradictory as it may sound, MAF was the reason. He was just amazing really. If he continues like against the Jets, I’m pretty sure that the Knights are going to make a shocking end to this NHL season...

 

[Daximus]

I agree otherwise definitely, but ideally that Stastny clone would still have a bit fresher legs than the original Stastny. Not that Stastny is exactly bad in that area, but it would still probably help if the clone would be at least a bit younger and also at least by some margin speedier.

Yeah it's going to be tough. Mason Appleton fits the style really well. He has great vision, speed and good size. But not sure if he can play Center at this level.
Petan would be good if he could handle the defensive role we'd need him too. Not sure if he'll ever be a great enough defensive player.

 

[robertocarlos]

I'm letting Trouba walk if he wants more than 6 million.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Just trade Laine and I bet you can have any centre in the league outside of a very small select few.

 

[Ippenator]

Yeah it's going to be tough. Mason Appleton fits the style really well. He has great vision, speed and good size. But not sure if he can play Center at this level.
Petan would be good if he could handle the defensive role we'd need him too. Not sure if he'll ever be a great enough defensive player.

I haven’t seen Appleton enough to say much about him, but I have seen some others post similar things about him. He does seem like an interesting player. But of course we haven’t seen him in the NHL yet. Do you think he would though have any realistic chances of playing at least some games in the NHL already next season? Of course it could happen if the Jets would suffer a lot of injuries, but I definitely don’t hope it to happen through that.

So how much has Appleton played as a center so far, and on which levels really? Unfortunately I have at least pretty much lost my faith in Petan though. He could maybe be an NHL player somewhere else, but I don’t see it really happening in a real Stanley Cup contender, which I of course hope that the Jets will be for many years to come.

 

[Jets4Life]

No question Hellebuyck did work on his game and that's excellent. And I hope that he would have put in the same work regardless of whether Mason was signed or not. As I said, I'm willing to assume that this is just Hellebuyck's face that he shows to the media. I don't know ... maybe it helps with confidence/performance to be a bit cocky but it kind of smacks of Pavelec never owning his bad play. Is this a Flaherty coaching thing? I don't know, I admit this is all pure speculation.

Re: Vasilevskiy, I admit that I didn't follow the Lightening much at all. Only casually since my best friend is from Florida and grew up watching them. My main point being, Vasilevskiy (who's a year younger than Hellebuyck) is delivering when he's really needed this playoffs. Hellebuyck pooped the bed against Vegas in my view.

Helle was burned out. He played Vezina worthy hockey for the Jets for the entire season, and the first two rounds. I cannot believe you are comparing him to Pavelec. Pavelec was horrible, and only had one stretch of great play back in March 2015. Otherwise, he was a sub-par goalie, making too much, and given too much rope by Jets Management. With the exception of 2016-17, Helle has flourished in every level of hockey he has competed in. I have no doubt that he will be an elite goalie for the Jets, for years ahead.

 

[Daximus]

I haven’t seen Appleton enough to say much about him, but I have seen some others post similar things about him. He does seem like an interesting player. But of course we haven’t seen him in the NHL yet. Do you think he would though have any realistic chances of playing at least some games in the NHL already next season? Of course it could happen if the Jets would suffer a lot of injuries, but I definitely don’t hope it to happen through that.

So how much has Appleton played as a center so far, and on which levels really? Unfortunately I have at least pretty much lost my faith in Petan though. He could maybe be an NHL player somewhere else, but I don’t see it really happening in a real Stanley Cup contender, which I of course hope that the Jets will be for many years to come.

I know Appleton played center with Tri-City in the USHL and in the NCAA. He's been a winger on the Moose I think though. He's got good size at 6'2 - 200lbs or so. I think he likely spends another season with the Moose but you never know what an offseason can do. If he puts in the work he can be a great player, his progression up to this point has been very good. Especially for a 6th round pick out of the USHL.
Petan just lacks the speed and tenacity a lot of smaller players have to thrive in the NHL. Don't get me wrong he is a good skater but he isn't on the level of Gaudreau or Point to be a really effective small guy. He may find it eventually but I too am losing faith in his progression.

 

[Ippenator]

I know Appleton played center with Tri-City in the USHL and in the NCAA. He's been a winger on the Moose I think though. He's got good size at 6'2 - 200lbs or so. I think he likely spends another season with the Moose but you never know what an offseason can do. If he puts in the work he can be a great player, his progression up to this point has been very good. Especially for a 6th round pick out of the USHL.
Petan just lacks the speed and tenacity a lot of smaller players have to thrive in the NHL. Don't get me wrong he is a good skater but he isn't on the level of Gaudreau or Point to be a really effective small guy. He may find it eventually but I too am losing faith in his progression.

I have seen Petan exactly in the way how you described him. It’s quite a pity really, as I have seen him have pretty much NHL second line class of skills otherwise. I like his vision and passing skills and he has pretty good hands otherwise too.

 

[kcin94]

And I hope that he would have put in the same work regardless of whether Mason was signed or not.

This isn't directed at you, but this is a position that has been beaten to death in the media and others. That somehow Mason's signing caused Hellebuyck to work harder. Mason wasn't signed until July 1st. Hence that narrative assumes Hellebuyck wasn't doing all he could for 3 months, and then in the last 2 months, he started working really hard after Mason was signed.