Line Combos: What is your offseason wish list?
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Americanadian
Registered User
Yes. I said that Ottawa would make the most sense because he can still live in Toronto, his kids can still play hockey in Toronto. Marleau is also guaranteed (I can’t guarantee but Ottawa’s roster can guarantee) to play every game for Ottawa. If he is the silent leader and Mitch’s second father like everyone claims then he should understand that Mitch won’t make the money he deserves while he (Marleau) is here. It makes sense or Ottawa in the same vein that the Datsyuk trade made sense for Arizona and they don’t have a leader on their roster outside of Zach Smith.
Magic Man
Registered User
Marleau for Dillon actually makes some sense to me. The Leafs would save roughly 3M in cap space to fit in Marner/Kapanen/Johnsson if Brown is dealt as well. They also take care of their summer shopping list. A decent gritty defenseman to fill one of the holes left by Gardiner and Hainsey. The Sharks get to move salary in the deal making it more manageable under the cap for them.
8816 others
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Leafs aren't getting rid of Bracco and even if they he is worth more than a 5th round pick.
nuck
Schrodingers Cat
- Aug 18, 2005
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Willie gone (thats the only way the money works) and MM, AJ, and Kapi signed long term. Also a legit top 4 RD, a better backup, and a bottom 6 winger who can bang and still get 10 goals. Dubas can make this happen easy enough. Now if two Marlie defensemen and two Marlie forwards can force their way into the lineup as well that would be the icing, but management can't do it for them.
I am Canadian
AM34|WN88|MM16
Which two of Kadri, Zaitsev, Nylander are moving for this to happen.
Noooo thank you, the Gardiner is gone
nuck
Schrodingers Cat
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I wonder if you are referring to David Savard. I love Werenski but the Leafs are stacked at LD and Jones will cost you Marner. How good is he compared to Manson or Pesce? He might actually be the most affordable of the 3 but if you can only afford one big spend at RD is he enough?
Americanadian
Registered User
ViewsFromThe6ix
Zachary on the Attackary
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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I've been holding out hope that one day a Nylander for Werenski deal could come to fruition. Of course if he were a RHD that would be so perfect, but I'd take him and try to get the RHD some other way. But David Savard is a beast too. Kind of like a younger, RHD Muzzin.
Bomber0104
Registered User
Defence and grit up front are our top priorities.
Our defence needs serious improvement otherwise we're going to be handing significant minutes to untested and unproven rookies/Marlies. We also have way too much money tied up in wingers, with three more expecting significant raises this off-season.
It isn't hard to figure out what's going to happen here. The Leafs are going to be shedding money on the wings and it's going to happen one way or the other, sooner or later.
If you're taking the conservative route, you're trading Johnsson/Kapanen, biding your time for Lijegren/Sandin to come in on defence down the line, and rolling the dice on a weak D corp next season.
If you're taking the more aggressive route, you're trading Nylander and Johnsson/Kapanen, parlaying those assets into an established defenceman, and going into next season headstrong with a balanced roster.
In both of those scenarios, the key is going to be filling in the vacated forward positions with some grit / all-round skillsets. Balance is key in today's NHL and the roster as it stands right now is lacking it.
Our defence needs serious improvement otherwise we're going to be handing significant minutes to untested and unproven rookies/Marlies. We also have way too much money tied up in wingers, with three more expecting significant raises this off-season.
It isn't hard to figure out what's going to happen here. The Leafs are going to be shedding money on the wings and it's going to happen one way or the other, sooner or later.
If you're taking the conservative route, you're trading Johnsson/Kapanen, biding your time for Lijegren/Sandin to come in on defence down the line, and rolling the dice on a weak D corp next season.
If you're taking the more aggressive route, you're trading Nylander and Johnsson/Kapanen, parlaying those assets into an established defenceman, and going into next season headstrong with a balanced roster.
In both of those scenarios, the key is going to be filling in the vacated forward positions with some grit / all-round skillsets. Balance is key in today's NHL and the roster as it stands right now is lacking it.
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Maple Leaf
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Trapper
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- Nov 21, 2013
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We will see what Dubas does in the offseason.Yeah that is what Babcock said last year, when he was saddled with them when he asked for RHD help.
Lets hope the GM can do better this year, so the coach is not blamed for faulty ineffective player personnel.
So far, with the exception of a very few, I don’t like the identity of this team.
Too casual and nonchalant.
Blue collar and intensity are missing.
Ok. Just want to post my thoughts on how I think the off-season will go down. Sorry for the long post. So I think, the way the leafs will try to keep all of their big ticket players will be to ensure that we have enough cheap (i.e. close to league minimum, ELC), players to surround them with. It’ll be a highly-paid core, with mostly cheap guys in between. That’s the way it needs to be done in order to keep this together. If you can keep a core of Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri, Reilly, Dermott, Muzzin, Andersen (plus Liljegren and Sandin), that’s the core you build around. You can make a contender by filling around the edges of that roster.
I understand people are made about the Matthews and Nylander contracts, which are perceived as over-payments, and for sure you prefer a discount, but I’d rather slightly over-pay and retain core than middling players (i.e. Okposo, Lucic). At the beginning of the year most people thought 8x11M was a fair contract for Matthews, and the Pastrank Deal (6x6.66M) was a baseline for Willy. So for Willy, our deal exceeded Pastrnaks by 0.24M. Matthews deal was about 0.6M above what we expected, and the term was less. But in terms of cap it wasn’t way higher than we expected. This year was tough, so I think we’re all being a little too sensitive towards anything that’s not 100% ideal.
In terms of next year, Dubas has already started locking up cheap talent (Petan, Moore, Rosen) that probably has more to offer than we’ve seen in the past.
I also think the Leafs cap problems have been vastly overstated. First, off after this year everything opens up (due to Marleau’s contract ending), but even this year. I went on cap friendly to the GM mode and you can make a cap compliant team based on a projected 83M cap with very simple moves.
1. Trade Connor Brown for picks
2. Sign Marner to 9.5M x 8 years (should be in this ball park realistically based on his comparables, stone, kucherov).
3. Sign Kapanen to 2.5M x 2 years
4. Sign Johnsson to 3M x 3 years.
5. Hainsey and Gardiner walk.
6. Horton and Dermott on LTIR.
This results in you having a team as below.
Zack Hyman - John Tavares - Mitch Marner
Trevor Moore - Auston Matthews - William Nylander
Andreas Johnsson - Nazem Kadri - Kasperi Kapanen
Patrick Marleau - Frederik Gauthier - Nick Petan
Morgan Reilly - Nikita Zaitsev
Jake Muzzin - Justin Holl
Calle Rosen - Timothy Lijegren
Frederik Andersen
Garrett Sparks
I know some people will say that the RFA signing are too low and unrealistic. I think if the players are being reasonable that those are fair deals. However, for this team to be cap compliant all I have done is move Brown. I haven’t even had to move one of Marleau or Zaitsev. If you just move on of them, the resulting cap space makes it easy to fit slightly above the costs I’ve attributed to the RFAs. Or you could move Hyman if you really wanted to. Or trade one of Kapanen/Johnsson (not both). Anyway, the point of this was to show that the situation is not nearly as dire as the mainstream media would have you believe, and I’m sure the much smarter team in Leafs Management can be much more creative to improve the team.
Anyway, I’ll end this with a couple of predictions for what I think will happen in the off-season. These will be different than the team I posted above. The team was just to show that this can be done, easier than most think.
1. Zaitsev traded. I’m not sure what for, but I think this will happen. It makes the most sense. Then by the year after next we open up 10+M between him and Marleau. Even if we have to trade like a 2nd, I think it’s worth it. We can make that value up with free agent signings (NCAA, CHL, Europe) and undrafted players.
2. Connor Brown traded for picks/players. Not sure of the deal, but I’d bet on the player coming back being a prospect that doesn’t count against the cap, or just picks. This is the easiest way to clear space. Maybe like a 3rd or 4th (hopefully a 2nd).
3. Hainsey walks (unless he signs close to a league min deal). I still think Dubas will let him go to mould the defence into a more mobile corps.
4. Marner signs a vanity contract with us for 10.16M x 8 years (I know this is different than the team above, but I’m just guessing here).
5. One of Johnsson/Kapanen traded. The other kept, Bracco makes the team to replace one of them.
6. In general I think we will invest heavily in scouting for NCAA, CHL, and European leagues. We have less picks right now, and might have to pay more to get rid of bad contracts (i.e. Zaitsev) but we can use our scouting and development to regain that value if we hit on players like Trevor Moore as unsigned players that we pick up. I think the leafs management will try this route.
7. Both assistant coaches replaced (possibly Keefe, although I’m not in love with this idea. I love Sheldon but this would create a toxic work environment).
8. The team will adopt a new structure for the coming season, specifically new breakout system, new lines, and usage (TOI increased for stars, and more PP1 time). The new schemes will be more in line with puck possession type teams that Dubas is known to favor.
9. Sparks will be given a chance but a more established back-up will be brought in to challenge him (unlike this year).
I’m looking forward to see how the off-season turns out, and I think next year will be a lot more fun as all main contracts will be locked up, and we’ll be able to focus on the season. I know this year it was tough to watch a bunch of guys score and then cringe at the thought of their contracts. Let me know what other people think. I’m not 100% sure on any of this, but I think it’ll be fun to discuss. I just wanted to add some optimism to the negativity that I see towards the team everywhere.
Also, let me know if I put this in the wrong place, or feel free to move it to the correct place.
Looking forward to hearing what other people think.
Go Leafs Go
I understand people are made about the Matthews and Nylander contracts, which are perceived as over-payments, and for sure you prefer a discount, but I’d rather slightly over-pay and retain core than middling players (i.e. Okposo, Lucic). At the beginning of the year most people thought 8x11M was a fair contract for Matthews, and the Pastrank Deal (6x6.66M) was a baseline for Willy. So for Willy, our deal exceeded Pastrnaks by 0.24M. Matthews deal was about 0.6M above what we expected, and the term was less. But in terms of cap it wasn’t way higher than we expected. This year was tough, so I think we’re all being a little too sensitive towards anything that’s not 100% ideal.
In terms of next year, Dubas has already started locking up cheap talent (Petan, Moore, Rosen) that probably has more to offer than we’ve seen in the past.
I also think the Leafs cap problems have been vastly overstated. First, off after this year everything opens up (due to Marleau’s contract ending), but even this year. I went on cap friendly to the GM mode and you can make a cap compliant team based on a projected 83M cap with very simple moves.
1. Trade Connor Brown for picks
2. Sign Marner to 9.5M x 8 years (should be in this ball park realistically based on his comparables, stone, kucherov).
3. Sign Kapanen to 2.5M x 2 years
4. Sign Johnsson to 3M x 3 years.
5. Hainsey and Gardiner walk.
6. Horton and Dermott on LTIR.
This results in you having a team as below.
Zack Hyman - John Tavares - Mitch Marner
Trevor Moore - Auston Matthews - William Nylander
Andreas Johnsson - Nazem Kadri - Kasperi Kapanen
Patrick Marleau - Frederik Gauthier - Nick Petan
Morgan Reilly - Nikita Zaitsev
Jake Muzzin - Justin Holl
Calle Rosen - Timothy Lijegren
Frederik Andersen
Garrett Sparks
I know some people will say that the RFA signing are too low and unrealistic. I think if the players are being reasonable that those are fair deals. However, for this team to be cap compliant all I have done is move Brown. I haven’t even had to move one of Marleau or Zaitsev. If you just move on of them, the resulting cap space makes it easy to fit slightly above the costs I’ve attributed to the RFAs. Or you could move Hyman if you really wanted to. Or trade one of Kapanen/Johnsson (not both). Anyway, the point of this was to show that the situation is not nearly as dire as the mainstream media would have you believe, and I’m sure the much smarter team in Leafs Management can be much more creative to improve the team.
Anyway, I’ll end this with a couple of predictions for what I think will happen in the off-season. These will be different than the team I posted above. The team was just to show that this can be done, easier than most think.
1. Zaitsev traded. I’m not sure what for, but I think this will happen. It makes the most sense. Then by the year after next we open up 10+M between him and Marleau. Even if we have to trade like a 2nd, I think it’s worth it. We can make that value up with free agent signings (NCAA, CHL, Europe) and undrafted players.
2. Connor Brown traded for picks/players. Not sure of the deal, but I’d bet on the player coming back being a prospect that doesn’t count against the cap, or just picks. This is the easiest way to clear space. Maybe like a 3rd or 4th (hopefully a 2nd).
3. Hainsey walks (unless he signs close to a league min deal). I still think Dubas will let him go to mould the defence into a more mobile corps.
4. Marner signs a vanity contract with us for 10.16M x 8 years (I know this is different than the team above, but I’m just guessing here).
5. One of Johnsson/Kapanen traded. The other kept, Bracco makes the team to replace one of them.
6. In general I think we will invest heavily in scouting for NCAA, CHL, and European leagues. We have less picks right now, and might have to pay more to get rid of bad contracts (i.e. Zaitsev) but we can use our scouting and development to regain that value if we hit on players like Trevor Moore as unsigned players that we pick up. I think the leafs management will try this route.
7. Both assistant coaches replaced (possibly Keefe, although I’m not in love with this idea. I love Sheldon but this would create a toxic work environment).
8. The team will adopt a new structure for the coming season, specifically new breakout system, new lines, and usage (TOI increased for stars, and more PP1 time). The new schemes will be more in line with puck possession type teams that Dubas is known to favor.
9. Sparks will be given a chance but a more established back-up will be brought in to challenge him (unlike this year).
I’m looking forward to see how the off-season turns out, and I think next year will be a lot more fun as all main contracts will be locked up, and we’ll be able to focus on the season. I know this year it was tough to watch a bunch of guys score and then cringe at the thought of their contracts. Let me know what other people think. I’m not 100% sure on any of this, but I think it’ll be fun to discuss. I just wanted to add some optimism to the negativity that I see towards the team everywhere.
Also, let me know if I put this in the wrong place, or feel free to move it to the correct place.
Looking forward to hearing what other people think.
Go Leafs Go
Bomber0104
Registered User
The question is how.
With the team completely capped out, I hope you realize "filling around the edges" gets incredibly difficult.
Usually you rely on draft capital for that, and I'm sorry but penciling in guys like Dermott, Lijegren, and Sandin for "core" roles with the team is extremely premature.
Also there's no possible way you can have a core of 11 players, for any length of time outside of one season.
So basically you're ok with us overpaying significantly for Matthews and Nylander because you're convinced Petan, Moore, and Rosen are better than the fringe players they currently are?
And all that pipedreaming results in almost the exact same roster from this year minus two legitimate NHL defencemen (including one RD) on an already poor defensive team.
Absolutely they're unrealistic, especially as it pertains to Marner.
And Hyman is one of the last players that should be traded.
I can see the bolded happening. Aside from that I think you're dreaming.
Also where do you get this idea that Dubas has "puck possession schemes" drawn up for the coaching staff? You do realize he has literally zero experience in hockey coaching and strategy, yet you're proposing he topple Babcock's systems why exactly?
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Kadri, Gardiner, Kapanen gone. Gritty playmaking winger for Matthews and Nylander. A real 3c who’s hard to play against. JT with the C and a message being sent by not caving into Marners demands. Time to take the city’s keys back from the primadonna children.
TML Dynasty
Registered User
- May 2, 2016
- 1,547
- 898
Guys like Mikheyev and Korshkov may help. Bracco on ELC and maybe a few others. I think Lily and Sandin stay in the AHL tho. Demott is legit but I hope his injury doesn't set him back too much. Moore too.
lol no...his point was it wasn't significant. And helped by the value Dubas has found in those types of players.
Have an issue with 'pipedreaming' but this is a valid point. But he was just showing how we can easily stay under the cap. A couple more moves open up cap to get a different look.
Marner's contract is probably unrealistic in length but cap hit is pretty damn close IMO. Agree on keeping Hyman....great value.
I thought it was great post lol
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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There is nothing comparable between Datsyuk and Marleau.
Marleau on the cap won't effect Marner, it will effect some players further down the depth chart.
Your scenario seems very unlikely.
Americanadian
Registered User
How is nothing comparable between Marleau and Datsyuk? Datsyuk carried a 7.5M cap hit for 1 season and no real dollars, Marleau carries a 6.25M cap hit and 1.25M in real dollars. Very close situations except that Marleau plays which would be a benefit to Ottawa due to their lack of NHL forwards. Marleau 100% prevents Marner from making 11M+ he wants to make.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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robertmac43
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Mess
Global Moderator
What I'm afraid of is that we're trying to play HockeyPuck (MoneyBall) by being a analytics expert that the advanced stats don't reflect well on blue collar style worker hockey players, where Zone entries and puck possession by skating around on the perimeter etc show better for a different style of player.
Bringing the puck into the Ozone with possession is a more important quality than a player that dumps it in, and then like a dog on a bone goes into the corner aggressively forechecking crashing and banging to get it back. A shot on net when calculating PDO metrics reflects better on a shooter than a player that fearlessly falls in front of a puck blocking a shot and preventing a shot on net when SPSV% is concerned. A player takeaway with an nonchalant lazy but successful stick-check, doesn't show any differently than playing heavy hockey of playing the body and separating the puck carrier winning puck battles through blue collar hard work and physical contact.
Leafs are going to increase their analytics budget by $50 mil this year, but it might simply be identifying the wrong types of players because of how those stats are used towards team building.
mapleleafs34
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2011
- 1,113
- 1,338
When 100% healthy:
Johnsson-Tavares-Marner (Johnsson looked great on this line when they were together last season)
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander (reunite this line to get Willy back in his groove)
Moore-Kadri-Bracco (Both those kids deserve looks on something other than the 4th line, hopefully get Naz going)
Mikheyev-GOAT-Korshkov (Get the KHL boys accustomed to the NHL before promoting them higher)
Rielly-RHD (RHD acquired via trade with Kapanen included in that deal)
Muzzin-Dermott
Rosen-Zaitsev
Traded: Brown, Kapanen, Marleau(I pray)
Johnsson-Tavares-Marner (Johnsson looked great on this line when they were together last season)
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander (reunite this line to get Willy back in his groove)
Moore-Kadri-Bracco (Both those kids deserve looks on something other than the 4th line, hopefully get Naz going)
Mikheyev-GOAT-Korshkov (Get the KHL boys accustomed to the NHL before promoting them higher)
Rielly-RHD (RHD acquired via trade with Kapanen included in that deal)
Muzzin-Dermott
Rosen-Zaitsev
Traded: Brown, Kapanen, Marleau(I pray)
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