What is the case for Lafleur over Jagr?

[CarlWinslow]

All the stuff you have spewed is garbage. I give up on trying to argue with you because you are set on the fact that Lafleur was some kind of God and led his "mediocre" Canadiens to dynasty status while Jagr had Barasso the greatest goalie and his superior "help" and led them to nowhere.

Incorrect. I never said anything about Lafleur being a God. I've only ever questioned you and how you put Jagr up on this perch that nobody else could attain. I am quite sure that if you didn't already know you'd be laughed off the boards for it, you would try and pimp Jagr as the best player ever.

Btw quote me where I said Jagr played with AHL defensemen.

You said this....

Jagr could have been playing with a buch of AAA hockey players as forwards, but if he had NHL caliber defensemen and a Hasek like goalie, they would have won the Cup. He was that good.

So, I'm showing you that Jagr had not only NHL caliber defenders but also NHL caliber forwards and a good goalie and they went nowhere. Yes you said Hasek so are you saying without one of the top 2 or three goalies ever, Jagr can't get it done? Don't you think a Lafleur led team with Hasek in net could win too?

I said they were NHL caliber but everyone else in the NHL, were NHL caliber.

Yes but you said all Jagr needed was NHL caliber D-men and a great goalie. He had that and did nothing with it but pad his stats.

It remains that his team was weaker than any of the competitors of that era.

Really, weaker than teams like Tampa Bay? Florida? Why can't you just accept that Jagr didn't play with deaf midgets despite what you want us to think?

You keep bringing Hasek, but Hasek is not the greatest goalie of all-time, he is one of but Roy is pretty darn good too.

Okay, but you didn't mention Roy. You mentioned Hasek as the goalie that could win Jagr a cup.

So because Sakic won with Roy, Forsberg, Foote, Blake, does that diminishe Sakic's accomplishments?

Of course not. You are the one who tries to say that Jagr is so incredibly dominant and amazing that he could carry all of these sacks of crap to the promised land yet when we point out that he wasn't on a team of AHL rejects and he still did nothing, you stick to your baseless opinion. Who cares who Sakic won with? He is not the subject of this debate.

You still haven't proven anything to me. Between 1997-98 and 2000-01 find me a time where Barasso was considered among even the best 15 starter netminders? (I didn't say top 10 because then you would say, "oh he needs a top 10 goaltender to win")

Of course I would. Again, you claim Jagr has no help. You also claim he could carry pretty much anyone to the promised land. He had a good cast and got nowhere. He had an even better cast in Washington and got nowhere too.

Lemieux had a prime Jagr in 1995-96, had Francis, had Barasso, had Naslund and Sandstrum, how come he did not lead his team to the Cup?

Jagr's attitude problems submarined the team?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

That ought to wrap things up.