What exactly is Babcock doing that is impressing you.

[Menzinger]

And yet studies on the subject find virtually no impact.

The stuff I've read suggests that coaching changes mid season will have little to no impact.

Longer term not so much. Again, look at the Ducks - with Carlyle they were a steadily declining team. He's fired, the team comfortably makes the playoffs the following season.

And in this thread - using a 1/2 season sample size of Detroit when they've gotten incredibly high q
Goaltending (likely very unsustainable long term) to show Babcock made no difference to that Irganization is a very questionable argument.

 

[666]

The stuff I've read suggests that coaching changes mid season will have little to no impact.

Longer term not so much. Again, look at the Ducks - with Carlyle they were a steadily declining team. He's fired, the team comfortably makes the playoffs the following season.

And in this thread - using a 1/2 season sample size of Detroit when they've gotten incredibly high q
Goaltending (likely very unsustainable long term) to show Babcock made no difference to that Irganization is a very questionable argument.

I don't want to have this debate but you do realize that Reimer has a .936, for tops in the league and if he was anywhere near a realistic number especially with all of 1 goal games then the Leafs would be very far in the basement of the league.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

I don't want to have this debate but you do realize that Reimer has a .936, for tops in the league and if he was anywhere near a realistic number especially with all of 1 goal games then the Leafs would be very far in the basement of the league.

Doesn't Bernier have the worst save % in the NHL?

I haven't looked at the numbers, but my guess is that the Leafs are somewhere around league average for goaltending, overall.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Doesn't Bernier have the worst save % in the NHL?

I haven't looked at the numbers, but my guess is that the Leafs are somewhere around league average for goaltending, overall.

basically yes - they balance each other out
but we don't have the offence.

 

[sxvnert]

Hockey Central @ Noon - January 14 - Thursday
Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock on his team at the halfway point of the season & dealing with development vs. winning as the primary focus; Leafs players getting a rebuild under new management;

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/[email protected]

Great interview.

 

[666]

Great interview.

Summary, the tank has barely started. We will get even worse the second half of this season and be even worse for the next couple of years as we get younger.

I've never heard someone from any teams management ever admit that they are going to lose on purpose. In this case he even admitted it's for a few more years. At least they're honest about it.

This team has no interest in making the playoffs.
This team will sell at the deadline and get worse, last place is the goal.
This team will not try to improve during free agency so all you Stamkos fans forget about it.
This team is going to tank for a few more years and build through the draft. That will be a few more years of tanking, then a few more years of development. It's a 10 year plan so don't expect to even sniff the playoffs for about 5 years.

All of this was pretty obvious but I was surprised to hear him admit it.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

basically yes - they balance each other out
but we don't have the offence.

We don't have much of anything! Lol

 

[UllmansTiger]

Great to hear the pain is long term, Mike acknowledging the Leafs are going to get worse before they get better.

 

[666]

Great to hear the pain is long term, Mike acknowledging the Leafs are going to get worse before they get better.

Yeah, but how much worse can it get? It's already pretty embarrassing being a Leaf fan.

 

[Menzinger]

Yeah, but how much worse can it get? It's already pretty embarrassing being a Leaf fan.

It's about keeping draft picks and actually progressively developing young prospects and players.

The previous management regime traded picks like they were going out of style and yo'yoed prospects between leagues which did them more harm than good.

 

[Gabriel426]

Pretty refreshing that he said the team will be bad. I think they are really lowering expectations and not thinking about shortcut.

 

[UllmansTiger]

Yeah, but how much worse can it get? It's already pretty embarrassing being a Leaf fan.

Sure, but at least it's not from lack of effort. I can live with a lack of talent while they get things going but not if they're mailing it in and neither will Mike. If by 'worse' you mean they'll be bottom 3 for the next few years, I'd say it's more likely than not and we as Leafs fans should buckle up for that ride, it'll be worth it in the end.

 

[Gabriel426]

To me, the embarrassing part was not the results BC let's face it, there will always only be one winner per season and who cares if the team make it past two rounds of playoffs. The embarrassing part is constantly trading away top picks and continue to renew players as if the Leafs need to beg for them to resign by over paying them.

 

[Mess]

Yeah, but how much worse can it get? It's already pretty embarrassing being a Leaf fan.

Babcock inherited a mess from years of mismanagement and poor decisions of past GMs.

Mike is just being honest and realistic that this is going to take some time and pain before they can salvage what exists now and repair the damage inflicted by years of abuse.

 

[666]

Babcock inherited a mess from years of mismanagement and poor decisions of past GMs.

Mike is just being honest and realistic that this is going to take some time and pain before they can salvage what exists now and repair the damage inflicted by years of abuse.

Burke inherited and even worse mess, he didn't give up. He didn't lose on purpose. This is embarrassing.

 

[gabeliscious]

Burke inherited and even worse mess, he didn't give up. He didn't lose on purpose. This is embarrassing.

sometimes you need to take a step backwards before you take a step forward.

burke made poor ufa signing and one of the worst trades in franchise history. all well not being any further a head. bottom 5 teams shouldnt trade 2 first round picks and a 2nd.

if burke would have built through draft we would be good to go right now. burke-nonis regime set us back 7 years....but at least we had truculence lol.

babs is setting bar low but i would be shocked if we werent a bubble team as early as next year. a lot of dead wood is going to be moving out and quality skilled young players will be coming in. i expect playoffs in 2 years after this one.

 

[mikebel111*]

Like I said, Babcock is an elite coach but not a miracle worker. Whoever said we are making the playoffs, I told you that its simply not happening. So please stop that expectation or dream. Thats not on Babcock at all, the best things he can do is give them a system that will actually help results in the future and for the most part he has created that, and really what Babcock's ability will possibly do is avoid a top 5 pick which is not good, but with Babcock's coaching it might just happen.


Babcock wants to win and that could be a reason why we might not have a top 5 pick, because he is that good. He isn't losing intentionally, and is trying to win, like he always does. We are not tanking as Babcock is simply elite and is trying to get success.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Burke inherited and even worse mess, he didn't give up. He didn't lose on purpose. This is embarrassing.

we are where we are because of Burke, and Nonis, and you're lauding them.

 

[Gabriel426]

If Burke and Nonis were still managing, I am pretty sure they would traded Willie, the No 4 overall in 2014-Marner, plus a few more prospects- Brown, Percy and Goat along with other draft picks for Saad and Hamilton. And sign Mike Green in UFA.
Thus the top six will have Saad, Bozak, Phil, Lupul, JVR and Kadri. With a top five of Morgan, Jake, Dion, be Mike Green and Hamilton.
And the Leafs will be a bubble team with no hope for the future bc there is no prospects. And two yrs later when Willie and Marner break into the League and lights it on fire, we wonder wtf and why did Burke and Nonis kept trading away future superstars for second tier players.

 

[The Podium]

Yeah, but how much worse can it get? It's already pretty embarrassing being a Leaf fan.

Really? This is the first time since the first lockout that I'm not embarrassed of this team.

I rather them pick a direction and stick with it than to contradict every move with another taking a step back with every step forward.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Really? This is the first time since the first lockout that I'm not embarrassed of this team.

I rather them pick a direction and stick with it than to contradict every move with another taking a step back with every step forward.

exactly. he keeps tossing out how "embarrassing" this is. i point out specific situations where when Burke/Nonis and Wilson/Carlyle where coaching us, teams were literally laughing, citing how they can beat us - they would say one thing and completely do something to contradict themselves. THEY made our organization into a joke.

we're finally firmly on a right path, what they say is what we're doing so we can get better, but oh my god, it's embarrassing because of what? we're still last?

what freaking ever.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Offensive struggles
Thursday marked the sixth time that the Leafs have been shutout this season, the second-most of any team in the league thus far; Anaheim has been blanked eight times.
Toronto has managed one goal or less in five of the past seven games, predictably struggling to generate offence without van Riemsdyk, who was leading the team in points before he broke his left foot earlier this month.

“What are you expecting?†Babcock said in response to queries about the lack of goals among forwards. “I think these forwards are doing what they do. How many guys really score?
“James scored. Who else?â€
Only one active Leaf forward, to Babcock’s point, scored 20-plus goals last season: Tyler Bozak, who netted 23 markers in his first and only 20-goal campaign.

Is that Babcock becoming unhinged ?
Is the guy cracking already ?
Seems out of character for him to go off like that.
I'm surprised.

Telling your forwards they "aren't scorers" seems like a bad plan.
Why would Babcock shove a statement like that in the face of his forwards ?
Weird.

 

[Daisy Jane]

considering he stated it at the beginning of the season - that he + the coaching staff totalled up the numbers twice, had an estimation about goals scored, ANNOUNCED this at the start of the season now people are going "well you're not scoring."

well no poop. look at the team. 2/3rds of them aren't natural goal scores, they'll get their totals, but seriously, whose going to score? and considering that you shared this information several times, and it's coming up. Honestly.

 

[Confucius]

Summary, the tank has barely started. We will get even worse the second half of this season and be even worse for the next couple of years as we get younger.

I've never heard someone from any teams management ever admit that they are going to lose on purpose. In this case he even admitted it's for a few more years. At least they're honest about it.

This team has no interest in making the playoffs.
This team will sell at the deadline and get worse, last place is the goal.
This team will not try to improve during free agency so all you Stamkos fans forget about it.
This team is going to tank for a few more years and build through the draft. That will be a few more years of tanking, then a few more years of development. It's a 10 year plan so don't expect to even sniff the playoffs for about 5 years.

All of this was pretty obvious but I was surprised to hear him admit it.

just mind boggling, we really are cursed. For years we have endured, nobody that is great wants to come to Toronto. Now there is a top 10 player that may well want to come here and we don't want him. Cursed I say!

 

[Mess]

Offensive struggles
Thursday marked the sixth time that the Leafs have been shutout this season, the second-most of any team in the league thus far; Anaheim has been blanked eight times.
Toronto has managed one goal or less in five of the past seven games, predictably struggling to generate offence without van Riemsdyk, who was leading the team in points before he broke his left foot earlier this month.

“What are you expecting?†Babcock said in response to queries about the lack of goals among forwards. “I think these forwards are doing what they do. How many guys really score?
“James scored. Who else?â€
Only one active Leaf forward, to Babcock’s point, scored 20-plus goals last season: Tyler Bozak, who netted 23 markers in his first and only 20-goal campaign.

Is that Babcock becoming unhinged ?
Is the guy cracking already ?
Seems out of character for him to go off like that.
I'm surprised.

Telling your forwards they "aren't scorers" seems like a bad plan.
Why would Babcock shove a statement like that in the face of his forwards ?
Weird.

Sounds like Babcock is publicly saying he needs Stamkos to address the need for goalscoring, without mentioning his name.