What do we do with our 2024 1st

[SirloinUB]

Sorry but giving up Berggren to move up from 15 to 13 is crazy talk.

I think he is overrated on here and I’d completely agree with you

 

[WingsToPick4th]

15 OA + Wallinder + Mazur for Marner lol

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

15 OA + Wallinder + Berggren for Marner lol

Eeek that's a big no

Berggren
Fabbri
2nd

 

[jkutswings]

Eeek that's a big no

I don't value the assets Detroit would give up.

But I don't think Mitch Marner is the right fit.

 

[SirloinUB]

15 OA + Wallinder + Mazur for Marner lol

Eeek that's a big no

Berggren
Fabbri
2nd

I’d do either of these or even some combination of the two in a heartbeat

 

[lilidk]

No longer think we should trade this pic, it's all about future, get best available player. Don't want to trade up also, guys from WWP change my mind

 

[Shaman464]

I think Detroit should try to move up. Detroit still desperately needs to push Larkin and ADB down the depth chart to get the most out of them. Especially Larkin who is looking to be injury prone in the second half of seasons likely from having the carry the whole team on his back.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

who's the highest ceiling forward? C or winger projected around 15, draft him

 

[OneMoreTry]

I think we should keep it and stay in that spot - just because there are so many guys looking quite similar in value. Someone might slip from 10,11 down to 15, and that's good enough value at that position, without having to trade anything.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Here’s what we do.

We sit on the clock at 15 and let it expire. Then, we sit on the clock at 16 and let it expire. And then when Gary calls Steve to see what’s up, we say, f*** you and we sit on the clock at 17 and let it expire. Really grind the whole thing to an halt.

Waste everyone’s time.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

15 OA + Wallinder + Mazur for Marner lol

Toronto wouldn't ever do it

 

[Gniwder]

Toronto wouldn't ever do it

Yeah, that's a lynch mob trade.

 

[norrisnick]

At this point, wouldn't there be a mob without a trade?

 

[FMichael]

I’d do either of these or even some combination of the two in a heartbeat

Agreed...While he's a lil'weiner - he's a talented lil'weiner that would instantly be a top point producer on this team.

Playoff performance, or lack there of - we'll get to that if/when the club makes it.

 

[Gniwder]

At this point, wouldn't there be a mob without a trade?

Naw, Leafs fans are accustomed to disappointment.

 

[FMichael]

Yeah, that's a lynch mob trade.

Gotta feel for Treliving...Poor bastard.

 

[norrisnick]

Naw, Leafs fans are accustomed to disappointment.

Then fleece the f*** out of them and don't worry about a mob that won't actually form.

 

[Gniwder]

Then fleece the f*** out of them and don't worry about a mob that won't actually form.

I don't care about the mob, but I'm sure Tre would like to keep his job.


Every offseason there are people that think we're gonna get Eichel, Tkachuk, Marner, etc for peanuts and it never happens. Instead you get Cat and Kane, and you hated both acquisitions, lol.

 

[norrisnick]

I don't care about the mob, but I'm sure Tre would like to keep his job.


Every offseason there are people that think we're gonna get Eichel, Tkachuk, Marner, etc for peanuts and it never happens. Instead you get Cat and Kane, and you hated both acquisitions, lol.

There were very specific components in the talked about trade for DBC that I opposed, half of which was a rumored 8x$9M extension that obviously didn't happen. Kane was just a diversion from the rebuild. People will credit him as opposed to Ray for Ray's growth, but it's done and over with now. Had you force-fed Berggren Kane's deployment and disregarded all the lost battles and defensive miscues you'd have come awful close to similar numbers.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

There were very specific components in the talked about trade for DBC that I opposed, half of which was a rumored 8x$9M extension that obviously didn't happen. Kane was just a diversion from the rebuild. People will credit him as opposed to Ray for Ray's growth, but it's done and over with now. Had you force-fed Berggren Kane's deployment and disregarded all the lost battles and defensive miscues you'd have come awful close to similar numbers.

No you wouldn't. Patrick Kane, even at this stage in his career, is just a wildly better hockey player than Jonatan Berggren. Like, it's not close.

You would not have gotten Kane level production out of Berggren.
Force-feeding kids minutes for the f***in hell of it does not make them develop. Edvinsson would not have magically been a far superior player if he was in Detroit in November instead of GR.

I know you love the young kids they draft... but development in the league just does not occur the way you seem to think it does.

 

[Indrid Cold]

No you wouldn't. Patrick Kane, even at this stage in his career, is just a wildly better hockey player than Jonatan Berggren. Like, it's not close.

You would not have gotten Kane level production out of Berggren.
Force-feeding kids minutes for the f***in hell of it does not make them develop. Edvinsson would not have magically been a far superior player if he was in Detroit in November instead of GR.

I know you love the young kids they draft... but development in the league just does not occur the way you seem to think it does.

I'm calling BS on that. You can't say for sure that Ed wouldn't be a better player if he got the perm callup in November. Every player is different. 60 NHL games vs. what, 50 AHL games...

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I'm calling BS on that. You can't say for sure that Ed wouldn't be a better player if he got the perm callup in November. Every player is different. 60 NHL games vs. what, 50 AHL games...

And I'm calling BS right back. You know that Lalonde would have had a short leash for him early on in the season. He would have been yanked down or out of the lineup with a bad mistake.

I mean, no, I can't say for sure he wouldn't be a better player. But I wasn't the one making the grandiose statement that young guys would just be as good as veterans if you force-fed them minutes.

 

[norrisnick]

No you wouldn't. Patrick Kane, even at this stage in his career, is just a wildly better hockey player than Jonatan Berggren. Like, it's not close.

You would not have gotten Kane level production out of Berggren.
Force-feeding kids minutes for the f***in hell of it does not make them develop. Edvinsson would not have magically been a far superior player if he was in Detroit in November instead of GR.

I know you love the young kids they draft... but development in the league just does not occur the way you seem to think it does.

What development needs to happen for Berggren to be able to produce offensively on a top line, PP1, lose a ton of puck battles and make a lot of defensive mistakes? He can do that now, just like Kane did...

And I'm calling BS right back. You know that Lalonde would have had a short leash for him early on in the season. He would have been yanked down or out of the lineup with a bad mistake.

I mean, no, I can't say for sure he wouldn't be a better player. But I wasn't the one making the grandiose statement that young guys would just be as good as veterans if you force-fed them minutes.

Thank you for defending my point.

The main difference between kids and vets is leash. Not ability.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

What development needs to happen for Berggren to be able to produce offensively on a top line, PP1, lose a ton of puck battles and make a lot of defensive mistakes? He can do that now, just like Kane did...


Thank you for defending my point.

The main difference between kids and vets is leash. Not ability.

Yeah, and they won't be able to use that ability if they are getting yanked in and out of the lineup and looking over their shoulder at the coach. And no damn NHL coach is going to keep sending a 20 year old over the boards. I'm not defending your point at all. No coach or GM worth their f***ing salt is going to give a kid who isn't clearly NHL ready the type of latitude that you're saying should be given to Jonatan Berggren. Like, Lucas Raymond made it as a rookie and got lots of latitude because his talent was undeniable. He passed the "Mrs. Blashill" test of, yeah, that guy is noticeable and should be playing for you now.


And development for Berggren... develop some size to not be knocked off the puck. Backcheck a little bit. Quite a bit of development actually. Like good lord man, he produced at Andrew Copp and JT Compher levels (Berggren, I mean). If you gave Andrew Copp or JT Compher force-fed top line, PP1 minutes how would they do?

I mean, good lord, there has never been a single solitary stretch of his career where Jonatan Berggren's production was within megaphone distance of Kane's.

Mother f***er, this is the same shit that my least favorite poster in the history of this site used to bleat about regarding Athanasiou. Guys do not linerally increase in stats with more ice time. Rates don't not generally hold steady with more opportunity.

 

[norrisnick]

Yeah, and they won't be able to use that ability if they are getting yanked in and out of the lineup and looking over their shoulder at the coach. And no damn NHL coach is going to keep sending a 20 year old over the boards. I'm not defending your point at all. No coach or GM worth their f***ing salt is going to give a kid who isn't clearly NHL ready the type of latitude that you're saying should be given to Jonatan Berggren. Like, Lucas Raymond made it as a rookie and got lots of latitude because his talent was undeniable. He passed the "Mrs. Blashill" test of, yeah, that guy is noticeable and should be playing for you now.


And development for Berggren... develop some size to not be knocked off the puck. Backcheck a little bit. Quite a bit of development actually. Like good lord man, he produced at Andrew Copp and JT Compher levels (Berggren, I mean). If you gave Andrew Copp or JT Compher force-fed top line, PP1 minutes how would they do?

I mean, good lord, there has never been a single solitary stretch of his career where Jonatan Berggren's production was within megaphone distance of Kane's.

Mother f***er, this is the same shit that my least favorite poster in the history of this site used to bleat about regarding Athanasiou. Guys do not linerally increase in stats with more ice time. Rates don't not generally hold steady with more opportunity.

Who said f*** all about linear production?

I'm saying if you give a highly skilled offensive player a lot of ice time with other skilled players he will produce. Berggren is more skilled offensively than the Ginger Twins.

The bolded. Kane did none of that and he seemed to do ok.

The Wings have this f***ed up tendency to take a scorer, force then to play with scrubs on checking lines, then scratch their heads when they don't produce like expected. Then once every 10-20 years or so they let a kid start on a scoring line, kid scores, and doesn't get banished. That way they can point to that kid and say 'See? We give kids a fair shake!'