What are the arguments to have Gretzky or Lemieux at 4th?

[spacemunky]

I'm 47 so I only include the players I've seen play.

Orr was done when I was a kid and Gordie was 50 something playing for the Whale.

Gretz and Mario are locked at 1 and two.

 

[psycat]

I'm going to bed. But before I do I would like a reply to this.

From 81/97 a span of 17 years gretzky and lemieux won 16 of 17 art rosses. With jagr winning the season lemieux didn't play at all in 94-95.

Gretzky 10
Lemieux 6
Jagr 1 (lemieux didn't play this season

Now I will start from howes first art ross.

From 51-67 a 17 years span
Art ross

Howe 6
Bobby hull 3
Mikita 3
Moore 2
Geoffrin 2
Beliveau 1

......

I would like to no how howe is more dominant than lemieux???

And, as per usual, the glorified Maurice is nowhere to be seen. I know this is off topic but im 100% certain that the Rocket is, bar none, the most overrated player of all time- Doughty obviously got a case but it's abit like comparing apples to oranges since one is still actually a legendary player and the other is a glorified top 20 dman of his time.

Obviously he(Maurice just to be clear) is a all time great and such but he is at the very least one clear tier below the likes of Jagr.

FWIW Mario was more dominant than Howe, Gretzky beat them both quite easily though.

 

[Big Phil]

I know Gretzky was the greatest playmaker/passer of all-time but one thing I think mario has on wayne is his ability to make long range passes. Mario was the best long range passer of all-time. He was just so tall I guess he could see over everyone. But I'll never forget some of those passes.

I think his reach helped too. He had that long wing span combined with great vision and soft hands. That'll make for some nice long passes.

And, as per usual, the glorified Maurice is nowhere to be seen. I know this is off topic but im 100% certain that the Rocket is, bar none, the most overrated player of all time- Doughty obviously got a case but it's abit like comparing apples to oranges since one is still actually a legendary player and the other is a glorified top 20 dman of his time.

Obviously he(Maurice just to be clear) is a all time great and such but he is at the very least one clear tier below the likes of Jagr.

FWIW Mario was more dominant than Howe, Gretzky beat them both quite easily though.

I think at his best Mario is more dominant than Howe. Not sure Howe ever equalled a 1989 or 1993 Lemieux for instance. That's just frightening. That being said, Howe was just so great for so long that career wise you have to put him ahead of Lemieux, I think.

As for the Rocket, let's remember that he finished 2nd in points 5 times. Twice he was a single point behind the leader. In a way, he's got a bit of hard luck that way much like Brad Park did with the Norris. We all still know Richard was a great scorer. Only won one Hart. Does any of it have to do with the bias against him being French-Canadian? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. I am sure if we look a bit closer we can find a year he could have won it again. But the guy was certainly elite. What else adds to his career is his playoff resume. He has 82 playoff goals. I mean, how can a guy who played in a lower scoring era where there were only two rounds his whole career still be sitting in 8th spot on the playoff goals list where no one active (aside from Jagr with 78) is even close to him? How is this possible? Even Kane, Crosby and Malkin are about 45 goals behind him and they have the best resumes of active players. So there is a reason the Rocket is as great as he is.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I think his reach helped too. He had that long wing span combined with great vision and soft hands. That'll make for some nice long passes.



I think at his best Mario is more dominant than Howe. Not sure Howe ever equalled a 1989 or 1993 Lemieux for instance. That's just frightening. That being said, Howe was just so great for so long that career wise you have to put him ahead of Lemieux, I think.

As for the Rocket, let's remember that he finished 2nd in points 5 times. Twice he was a single point behind the leader. In a way, he's got a bit of hard luck that way much like Brad Park did with the Norris. We all still know Richard was a great scorer. Only won one Hart. Does any of it have to do with the bias against him being French-Canadian? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. I am sure if we look a bit closer we can find a year he could have won it again. But the guy was certainly elite. What else adds to his career is his playoff resume. He has 82 playoff goals. I mean, how can a guy who played in a lower scoring era where there were only two rounds his whole career still be sitting in 8th spot on the playoff goals list where no one active (aside from Jagr with 78) is even close to him? How is this possible? Even Kane, Crosby and Malkin are about 45 goals behind him and they have the best resumes of active players. So there is a reason the Rocket is as great as he is.

4th all-time in goals per game in the playoffs. Playing in the 40s & 50s. Truly remarkable.