WHA and KHL Similarities and Influences

[plusandminus]

Figures that were provided were intended to start the tthread. To this extent the objective was achieved. As always posters are more than welcome to provide valid and supported additional information.

No harm intended. Just made an attempt to broaden the view, by addressing things like players from "new" hockey nations filling some of the gap, the need to look at how much the Russians did play and how they contributed in the NHL, etc.

Hockey, being a team sport, the real issue is how NHL team composition and performance is affected. Whenever talent is removed and replaced with inferior talent that is asked to play at a higher level the overall product or game suffers. Specifically regardless of the era, nationality, team or player, asking a third line player in the NHL to fill the role of a second or first line player impacts on the overall product.

My impression is that the overall product isn't very affected by KHL. There is only about 1 less Russian per team this year compared to 2003/04. You list the Swedes, but they are a non-factor in this case as they go to NHL and not KHL (mediocre NHL players like Weinhandl, Nylander of today, etc. excluded).

I tried to take a historical approach to the subject. I think the NHL standard suffered more when there were no Russians at all in the NHL, and when mid-European hockey in general was pretty undeveloped compared to today.

I do think it's valid to consider that during WHA days, there were no Russians at all in the NHL. At that time, there was both WHA and a Russian league featuring all the, say, 100 best Russians in the world.
In that case, I do tend to believe that WHA+Russian league affected NHL more than today's KHL.
I think also that, during WHA time, the Russian league of that time affected NHL more than KHL does today. And more than WHA at the time.

I think - I'm not saying this is something you want to focus upon - it was easier for the top players to put up big number in the NHL during the time of the WHA, than it is today. I also think that the competition at the top is harder today, having to compete with guys like Ovetchkin, Datsyuk, Malkin, and the other top Russians. And the "bottom half" NHL players during WHA days were probably worse than the "bottom half" of today, probably making it easy to produce many points.
During WHA days, there would have been no "Sid vs Ovie" fight, as there would be only Sid. No Malkin to at least occasionally compete with Sid as best/MV forward of Pittsburgh. Zetterberg would simply be the best forward of Detroit, compared to being one of their top-two forwards. (To be thorough, Pittsburgh would probably have drafted some other good player instead. Not sure what to say regarding Datsyuk considering him being drafted so far down.)

I'm sorry if I've been missing your point.

 

[MS]

KHL effect is limited to Russian players.

Aside from Jagr and one season of Jiri Hudler, they've made zero inroads signing non-Russian talent. There are a few guys like Brendl and Weinhandl starring in that league but they are NHL washouts.

There are probably 25 or so mid-level Russian players who would have been playing in the NHL 10 years ago but are in the KHL now.

_________

One big similarity between the WHA and the KHL is the skewing toward forwards in the best players in the leagues.

If you look at the top 20 or so players in either league, the vast majority at any given time are skill forwards. Probably a marketing thing, where it's easier to sell fans on a guy who scores goals than a defensive defender.

 

[steve141]

KHL effect is limited to Russian players.

Aside from Jagr and one season of Jiri Hudler, they've made zero inroads signing non-Russian talent. There are a few guys like Brendl and Weinhandl starring in that league but they are NHL washouts.

Guys like Weinhandl and Nylander are on the downside of their career.

What I find more interesting are young Swedes like Omark and Harju who chose to play in the KHL instead of playing out a development year in the AHL. The AHL has a very bad reputation in many parts of Europe. Compared to the SEL, many Swedish players view it as a step down in their development. I think you will see more young players in the future who opt for more money and better level of play in the KHL instead of accepting a year in the AHL to get used to NA.

Another example is goalie Erik Ersberg, who split to the KHL instead of accepting being sent down to the AHL by the Kings. With only 30 starting jobs in the NHL I think goalies will probably be the most likely to choose the KHL route. Getting a starting job in the KHL might be preferable to playing 15 games as a backup in the NHL.

In short, while the KHL will perhaps not have that big of an effect on the NHL, the AHL's ability to attract Europeans has already been affected.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Setting the Bar

KHL effect is limited to Russian players.

Aside from Jagr and one season of Jiri Hudler, they've made zero inroads signing non-Russian talent. There are a few guys like Brendl and Weinhandl starring in that league but they are NHL washouts.

There are probably 25 or so mid-level Russian players who would have been playing in the NHL 10 years ago but are in the KHL now.

_________

One big similarity between the WHA and the KHL is the skewing toward forwards in the best players in the leagues.

If you look at the top 20 or so players in either league, the vast majority at any given time are skill forwards. Probably a marketing thing, where it's easier to sell fans on a guy who scores goals than a defensive defender.

Setting the bar. Long accepted approach to improving a team is to work from the bottom up since a team is only as good as its weakest player(s).

During the 2010-11 NHL season there were 333 players who played 40 or fewer games:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=games_played

Factor out the LTIs such as Andrei Markov, David Perron, Mathew Lomdardi, etc, The < 10 game juniors and the mid season prospect call-ups such as Ryan McDonagh and what do you have? A few specialists(goons) and an assortment of Peter Prucha types who were non factors in the NHL and non factors in the KHL during the 2010-11 season. Fact is that a solid majority of the KHL players are better, contribute more than the Peter Prucha level talents in the hockey world.If available and integrated into the NHL they would impact more than the remainder of the marginal talent pool in the link.

The KHL effect is limited to Russian players. Coincides with the view that the WHA effect was limited to American players since some of the initial 1972-73 teams had a concentration of American players - Minnesota, New England.Fact remains that given opportunities the Americans demonstrated very clearly that they could play. Which to a large extent is the strength of the KHL.

Skilled forwards, offensive stars are the most plentiful of players. Every junior, university team has 2-3, likewise every minor league team, every European team.Skilled defensive forwards or skilled dmen are not so easy to find. In any type of bidding war the astute GMs keep the key defensive elements.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Well, at the same time there's been a considerable increase of Americans in the league. Could it be that Americans are increasingly squeezing Europeans out of NHL jobs rather than this being the result of the KHL throwing a lot of money at some European starlets? The European route for disgruntled stars and guys who want to make some good money before retirement has existed for a while after all and though the Russian oligarchs now pay better than previously, one can think of previous examples of quite solid ex-NHLers going to Switzerland etc.

It would make sense for a NHL team to go with an American over a European. Less of a concern about adaptability and cultural compatibility, easier to watch and steer their development.

This is an extremely important factor.

Another one is the age of players either leaving or not coming to the NHL as well.

The 3rd most important factor, and one that is often overlooked, is the way the game has changed from the 80's (still somewhat prevalent at the start of the 3 groupings in 93) which were high flying to today where team systems and huge strides in goaltending equipment and techniques have made the need for skill less necessary to succeed.

At the end of the day the raw numbers will only give us a partial understanding of the impact versus that of the WHA.

 

[FlyerX]

The KHL could never possible have the same impact the WHA did because the NHL was so Neanderthal in their thinking before the WHA. The WHA was a really good league that tried things, went after what were the new talent streams, changed rules and they worked for the most part. The toughest thing it ran up against was a tough economy as the 70s wore on.

Euro fans deserve a good super league if that's what they want. Didn't the KHL make an offer to bring in Jokerit? Now that's some good thinking but they got turned down.