Speculation: We win a top 3 pick

[6ix]

Even Strength Paces

Kadri '19: 13:35, 13gls, 35pts, -2, 50.2xgf% (-1.7rel)
Kerfoot '20: 13:09, 11gls, 32pts, -2, 52.4xgf% (+1.1rel)

I need the numbers for heart and grit and pest/60 too.

 

[kb]

I need the numbers for heart and grit and pest/60 too.

Feelings/60 was left out too.

 

[6ix]

Feelings/60 was left out too.

and suspensions/60 too, almost forgot.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

2nd/3rd OA for Brady Tkachuk

Tkachuk - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander

Otherwise, Draft Laferniere

 

[The CyNick]

While I see where you're coming from, I don't particularly like the take. Pending a colossal breakdown, the team was going to make the playoffs before covid. They're up against a team with an identical regular season record.

It's not a take, it's just fact. If we lose the series to Columbus, we didn't make the playoffs. That would be a colossal failure. We were by no means a lock to make the playoffs.

 

[meefer]

So, in your opinion, this lineup, the first lineup, is better than the second? The first lineup, is setup for better success, than the second?

22

$81,500,000

$81,208,533

$0

$0

$291,467

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Lafreniere, Alex $925,000	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000 C UFA - 4	Marner, Mitchell $10,893,000 RW UFA - 5
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 1	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C NMC UFA - 5	Nylander, William $6,962,366 RW, LW UFA - 4
Engvall, Pierre $1,250,000 LW, RW RFA - 2	Spezza, Jason $750,000 C, RW UFA	Barabanov, Alexander $925,000 RW, LW UFA - 1
Clifford, Kyle $1,250,000 LW UFA	Gauthier, Frédérik $750,000 C RFA	Korshkov, Yegor $925,000 RW RFA - 1
Mikheyev, Ilya $2,000,000 LW, RW RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 2	Ristolainen, Rasmus $5,400,000 D UFA - 2	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Muzzin, Jake $5,625,000 D NMC UFA - 4	Holl, Justin $2,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 3	Campbell, Jack $1,650,000 G UFA - 2
Sandin, Rasmus $894,167 D RFA - 2	Dermott, Travis $2,000,000 D RFA
Lehtonen, Mikko $925,000 D UFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Prospects, Nick Robertson, Liljegren

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

23

$81,500,000

$81,615,533

$0

$0

-$115,533

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Lafreniere, Alex $925,000	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000 C UFA - 4	Nylander, William $6,962,366 RW, LW UFA - 4
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 1	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C NMC UFA - 5	Kapanen, Kasperi $3,200,000 RW RFA - 2
Engvall, Pierre $1,250,000 LW, RW RFA - 2	Zacha, Pavel $2,250,000 C RFA - 2	Barabanov, Alexander $925,000 RW, LW UFA - 1
Clifford, Kyle $1,250,000 LW UFA	Spezza, Jason $750,000 C, RW UFA	Korshkov, Yegor $925,000 RW RFA - 1
Mikheyev, Ilya $2,000,000 LW, RW RFA	Gauthier, Frédérik $750,000 C RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 2	Pietrangelo, Alex $9,000,000 D UFA	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Muzzin, Jake $5,625,000 D NMC UFA - 4	Klingberg, John $4,250,000 D UFA - 2	Campbell, Jack $1,650,000 G UFA - 2
Sandin, Rasmus $894,167 D RFA - 2	Holl, Justin $2,000,000 D M-NTC UFA - 3
Lehtonen, Mikko $925,000 D UFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Prospects - Jason Roberston, Cole Perfetti, Nick Robertson, Liljegren, Harley

Having followed the Leafs for 50+ years, I can confidently say that the second grouping of D would be the best Leaf's defense group I've ever seen by a country mile, and seriously, perhaps the best top 6 throughout the NHL since the Habs in /71...my god they were blessed.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Having followed the Leafs for 50+ years, I can confidently say that the second grouping of D would be the best Leaf's defense group I've ever seen by a country mile, and seriously, perhaps the best top 6 throughout the NHL since the Habs in /71...my god they were blessed.

Yes that defense if it ever could come together is top flight NHL. But be realistic. It will never comes together that good. We have not had a top 5 defense in NHL since 93/94 season.

 

[namttebih]

It's not a take, it's just fact. If we lose the series to Columbus, we didn't make the playoffs. That would be a colossal failure. We were by no means a lock to make the playoffs.

Meh. I obviously wasn't impressed with the performance of the team this season either. That being said, the odds were extremely high that we were making the post season.

 

[Antropovsky]

I need the numbers for heart and grit and pest/60 too.

Kadri was sometimes a pest and sometimes showed grit. It was not like every game he was noticeable. His grit went from 0-60 faster than anyone’s and that in a lot of ways is not a compliment. I’m a huge Kadri fan, and am disappointed that we didn’t get a d-man in return who had more term, our return seemed like a waste of our biggest asset. However.... Kadri had severe ice rage. If someone pissed him off he would recklessly head hunt basically until he was thrown in the box or kicked out and suspended. I thought we should’ve moved on from him the offseason before when he was coming off his second consecutive 30 goal season.

 

[BAM]

Your obsession with trading a top 5 RW in the NHL is proof this isn't the first time you have suggested this

He's at best the 5th best winger in the NHL but gets paid the most. Out of all the big deals, his is the one that doesn't really match his value. Tavares as a UFA is a different story entirely.

If Marner has to go for the Leafs to get that final piece, so be it.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He's at best the 5th best winger in the NHL but gets paid the most. Out of all the big deals, his is the one that doesn't really match his value. Tavares as a UFA is a different story entirely.

If Marner has to go for the Leafs to get that final piece, so be it.

But he doesn't because the Leafs don't need a superstar on defense they just need a good piece, Manson, Larsson, Savard, maybe Risto, the type of D they need they can get without breaking up the core

 

[meefer]

Yes that defense if it ever could come together is top flight NHL. But be realistic. It will never comes together that good. We have not had a top 5 defense in NHL since 93/94 season.

I believe @Fogelhund has presented the trades that would provide for this D. Perhaps in the Trades thread? Also, that the proposals were generally viewed with favor by the other teams involved, on the main board for Trades and Free Agents. If memory serves, Marner was definitely our main 'give', but it worked. I'd love to see this group on the ice, the D being amazing, but like you feel that it's a pipe dream.

 

[BlueBaron]

Very HF of the OP to hope we lose in the Playoffs.

Disgraceful.

 

[supermann_98]

#1 draft Lefreniere and put up an auction for Money Mitch faster than Paul Marner starts bitching.

Try to entice Pietrangelo to come taking a large chunk of the cap space opened by dumping Money Mitch.

If Pietrangelo comes it makes the return on the trade for Money less important. IE, we could trade him for futures, prospects, etc. Whatever the best value return is in other words.

The forward lines would still be sick:

Lafreniere - Matthews - Hyman
Soup - Tavares - Nylander
Robinson - Kerfoot - Kap
Barabonov - Spezza - Goat

... While Pietrangelo REALLY solidifies our D
Reilly - Piet
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Dermott
Rosen - Lilj

 

[supermann_98]

Very HF of the OP to hope we lose in the Playoffs.

Disgraceful.

Lol, to be fair tho this is HockeyFutures and not HockeyPresent

 

[Fogelhund]

Where did Pavel Zacha come from?

I think that 2nd line is hurting

Perhaps the 3rd line too, at least on the wing, although I do like the Zacha addition but I'm not sure yet that engvall is a 3rd line guy.

Zacha comes from NJ.

But, you didn't answer the question... which team is better?

Note... lines aren't sketched in stone... if you want more balance, move Laf back to Tavares line Move Engvall around.... I think you'll find with Lafreniere, Perfetti, Jason Robertson additions to the squad... our offense won't be hurting so bad afterall... Maybe J. Robertson, at 6'2" and nearly PPG as a rookie in the AHL is ready. Maybe Perfetti is ready? Maybe Nick Roberston is ready.... there is potential for a lot of change in there.

 

[Fogelhund]

I believe @Fogelhund has presented the trades that would provide for this D. Perhaps in the Trades thread? Also, that the proposals were generally viewed with favor by the other teams involved, on the main board for Trades and Free Agents. If memory serves, Marner was definitely our main 'give', but it worked. I'd love to see this group on the ice, the D being amazing, but like you feel that it's a pipe dream.

@JT AM da real deal

The trades were as follows;

Trades

TOR

1. Harley, Thomas
2. Klingberg, John
3. Robertson, Jason
4. 2020 1st round pick (DAL)

DAL

1. Marner, Mitchell

TOR

1. Zacha, Pavel
2. 2020 1st round pick (ARI)

NJD

1. Dermott, Travis
2. Kerfoot, Alexander
3. Johnsson, Andreas

---------------------------
The Dallas trade, was proposed by Dallas fans on the trade board, and in the Dallas subforum. A number of them like the trade a great deal.

The New Jersey deal is my own.... I think we've overpaid to some degree, but I don't even care.... We've given them a package that really helps their team, and in turn, we've cut cap, ended up with a decent #3C, and the Arizona pick might end up being Perfetti...

 

[JT AM da real deal]

@JT AM da real deal

The trades were as follows;

Trades

TOR

1. Harley, Thomas
2. Klingberg, John
3. Robertson, Jason
4. 2020 1st round pick (DAL)

DAL

1. Marner, Mitchell

TOR

1. Zacha, Pavel
2. 2020 1st round pick (ARI)

NJD

1. Dermott, Travis
2. Kerfoot, Alexander
3. Johnsson, Andreas

---------------------------
The Dallas trade, was proposed by Dallas fans on the trade board, and in the Dallas subforum. A number of them like the trade a great deal.

The New Jersey deal is my own.... I think we've overpaid to some degree, but I don't even care.... We've given them a package that really helps their team, and in turn, we've cut cap, ended up with a decent #3C, and the Arizona pick might end up being Perfetti...

Love da Dallas trade ... da Devil trade I don't like as I really dislike Zacha's game and Dermy's game is still a couple years away from being very good but I get you have to give up something to unload Kerfoot ... AJ is a cap casualty but could be a decent scorer in nhl for years

 

[Fogelhund]

Love da Dallas trade ... da Devil trade I don't like as I really dislike Zacha's game and Dermy's game is still a couple years away from being very good but I get you have to give up something to unload Kerfoot ... AJ is a cap casualty but could be a decent scorer in nhl for years

Honestly, under this (probably not very realistic scenario), you hope that Perfetti becomes your #3C in a year or two, in the meantime, you become cap compliant, and maybe you can coach Zacha into being a guy whose game you like.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Zacha comes from NJ.

But, you didn't answer the question... which team is better?

I'm not sure which one is better, the 2nd roster does have a better top 4 D but the 2nd and 3rd lines are REALLY hurting

The first roster doesn't gut the core and the core and still has better top 4 than we have today.

Roster 1 doesn't require magic as Dallas and NJ have NO reason to trade Zacha or Klingberg especially Dallas.

At least Buffalo has reason to trade Risto since he's requested a trade

 

[Fogelhund]

I'm not sure which one is better, the 2nd roster does have a better top 4 D but the 2nd and 3rd lines are REALLY hurting

The first roster doesn't gut the core and the core and still has better top 4 than we have today.

Roster 1 doesn't require magic as Dallas and NJ have NO reason to trade Zacha or Klingberg especially Dallas.

At least Buffalo has reason to trade Risto since he's requested a trade

Interesting... because the first roster guts the core, as much as the second....

First roster removed.... Kerfoot, Johnsson, Kapanen.... added Lafreniere, and Spezza is your #3C
Second roster removed Kerfoot, Johnsson, Marner... added Lafreniere, Zacha, Roberston, (?)Perfetti

Essentially the question becomes... how different are the cores really? Which gives us better depth long-term?

The team with Lafreniere, Kapanen, Zacha, J Roberston, Perfetti... or the one with Marner, Lafreniere?

I guess it comes down to, valuing Marner as being worth more to a team, than Kapanen, Zacha, J. Roberston and Perfetti combined. (at least from the forwards perspective)... from the defensive perspective, there is no question that adding Pietrangelo, Klingberg and in the future Harley gives a better core, than just adding Ristolainen.... so far, Risto has shown to be a PP specialist, that should be sheltered defensively. If you are trading for him, you obviously hope he can become more, away from Buffalo, but it's a risky proposition that you don't end up with a more physical Barrie.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Interesting... because the first roster guts the core, as much as the second....

First roster removed.... Kerfoot, Johnsson, Kapanen.... added Lafreniere, and Spezza is your #3C
Second roster removed Kerfoot, Johnsson, Marner... added Lafreniere, Zacha, Roberston, (?)Perfetti

Essentially the question becomes... how different are the cores really? Which gives us better depth long-term?

The team with Lafreniere, Kapanen, Zacha, J Roberston, Perfetti... or the one with Marner, Lafreniere?

I guess it comes down to, valuing Marner as being worth more to a team, than Kapanen, Zacha, J. Roberston and Perfetti combined.

To me the core is Matthews, Marner Tavares, Nylander, Rielly and Andersen, those 6 are the core so roster 1 doesn't remove from the core, it certainly hurts the depth but the thing about depth pieces is they are replaceable, and as good as Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson and even Hyman are, they are depth pieces and they are replaceable.

Matthews? NO, Nylander? If they got Lafieniere maybe, but I'd wait a year and make sure Lafieniere is that dude, Marner? no, Tavares? NO, Rielly? no, Andersen? MAYBE, but not by ANYBODY Jack Campbell included currently with the Leafs.

You can replace depth replacing the core that's MUCH harder

 

[JT AM da real deal]

To me the core is Matthews, Marner Tavares, Nylander, Rielly and Andersen, those 6 are the core so roster 1 doesn't remove from the core, it certainly hurts the depth but the thing about depth pieces is they are replaceable, and as good as Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson and even Hyman are, they are depth pieces and they are replaceable.

Matthews? NO, Nylander? If they got Lafieniere maybe, but I'd wait a year and make sure Lafieniere is not dude, Marner? no, Tavares? NO, Rielly? no, Andersen? MAYBE, but not by ANYBODY Jack Campbell included currently with the Leafs.

You can replace depth replacing the core that's MUCH harder

Agree with your post but but but I really think Freddy is on the outer edge ... now if he can help us get past 1st round then I bring him back in if not then see ya later give Soupy a chance next year

 

[Fogelhund]

To me the core is Matthews, Marner Tavares, Nylander, Rielly and Andersen, those 6 are the core so roster 1 doesn't remove from the core, it certainly hurts the depth but the thing about depth pieces is they are replaceable, and as good as Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson and even Hyman are, they are depth pieces and they are replaceable.

Matthews? NO, Nylander? If they got Lafieniere maybe, but I'd wait a year and make sure Lafieniere is not dude, Marner? no, Tavares? NO, Rielly? no, Andersen? MAYBE, but not by ANYBODY Jack Campbell included currently with the Leafs.

You can replace depth replacing the core that's MUCH harder

In reality.. you've added Pietrangelo to the core under scenario two. Risto is no more proven as a core type, than Lafreniere is at this juncture.

Depth players are indeed replaceable... but having good depth, vs... just depth, is going to be the difference between a cup or not. Really, I don't think the offense suffers, if at all under Scenario two, because the depth hasn't taken a massive hit, meanwhile, you've suddenly in a position to have one of the best D's in the league.... while Risto doesn't even improve the team defensively... at least based upon what we've seen...

So... Marner, Dermott, Ristolainen... vs. Klingberg, Pietrangelo, Harley, Perfetti, Zacha, J. Roberston, plus another first round pick... I take the second group all day long.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Agree with your post but but but I really think Freddy is on the outer edge ... now if he can help us get past 1st round then I bring him back in if not then see ya later give Soupy a chance next year

Soupy is is a backup, that's what he is, he's a very very good backup but he IS a backup he can't start