Post-Game Talk: We choked on the fishsticks

[Peltz]

Bingooooooooooooo. They have their foot in two worlds right now. They need to make a decision. And I’m not confident that they’ll make they right decision.

But if you trade away guys like Buch and Zib for assets, then how do you avoid becoming the next Sabres that have been in rebuild mode since forever? Eventually, you do need to commit to some players to create a winning culture for the youngsters to grow into.

If in 2 years, the youngsters start hitting their stride, and the vets are still in their prime, we're a lethal team that can role 3 lines. We'll possibly have nine forwards that could be in the top six in any other team.

 

[TheDirtyH]

"they didn't show up for a must win game"

every single game they've played since the end of March was must win and they won a lot of them. you say "well uh this was a playoff atmosphere" what the f*** does that mean? there were some hits in t he 1st period? so what?

I know this board has a throbbing hard on for the Islanders for some god forsaken reason but this game shouldn't have proven much of anything.

1 win out of 13 when trailing heading into the third. Obviously, you're not going to have a winning record, but most everyone knew the game was over as soon as the Isles scored first.

I don't know if the personnel is wrong, but it does seem like the game plan is to have Zibanejad's line and Panarin's line be completely responsible for our scoring, and with a little help from Rooney's line, to be completely responsible for matching up against other team's top scorers and shut them down. The 'third line' is just there to kill minutes and try not to let anything happen in either end of the ice.

If a team is capable of frustrating and shutting down the top two lines, we're cooked, because they know that if they don't score, we won't score. They're not concerned with momentum, building towards a goal by controlling play and wearing down the opponent. They're concerned with pouncing on a rush up ice or a finding a seam pass. And then they end up caught up ice getting scored on more. The bigger the lead against, the more ice time for them and the more they play in a way that ends up with us trailing by more.

 

[tomobson]

But if you trade away guys like Buch and Zib for assets, then how do you avoid becoming the next Sabres that have been in rebuild mode since forever? Eventually, you do need to commit to some players to create a winning culture for the youngsters to grow into.

If in 2 years, the youngsters start hitting their stride, and the vets are still in their prime, we're a lethal team that can role 3 lines. We'll possibly have nine forwards that could be in the top six in any other team.

Kreider is their leader. That's the choice the front office made. All rebuilds are going to face tough seasons at one point or another. We can't act as if it's not going to happen.

 

[ThirdEye]

I wouldn't be shocked if Jones is in the 3rd pair.

I know there's a lot of hype surrounding Jones, but I think Schneider with his size and defensive acumen will beat him out. The recent offensive surge by him is intriguing as well.

Think Jones will ultimately be used as a trade chip, especially if Nils makes the team. We would otherwise have way too many undersized D

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Because in these three games against the Islanders, the Rangers scored a sum of seven goals, one into an empty net. The scorers against a goaltender were Alexis Lafreniere, Colin Blackwell, K’Andre Miller, Libor Hajek, Brendan Smith, Kevin Rooney.

That means: none for Artemi Panarin, none for Mika Zibanejad (who got the empty-netter), none for Chris Kreider, none for Ryan Strome, none for Pavel Buchnevich.

None for the Big Five, who in this one bled goals against, with Zibanejad, Kreider and Buchnevich all on for three with Panarin and Strome on for two through a team-wide defensive performance so deficient it harkened back to the worst days of Alain Vigneault’s tenure.

Rangers stars crumble under pressure again in worrisome sign

we're not built for playoff hockey. I'd argue Mika was the best of the group

Larry Brooks, always doom and gloom. He says lets not make a big deal out of last night's game but he does. Complains about how the offense only goes thru a certain group of players but then complains when those guys don't score and they get scoring from others. The bottom line is they got 3 of 4 points in those 2 games a few weeks ago and outplayed Isles overall in both of those games. Brooks should be a poster on this board. He would fit right in.

 

[Kravtsov420]

But if you trade away guys like Buch and Zib for assets, then how do you avoid becoming the next Sabres that have been in rebuild mode since forever? Eventually, you do need to commit to some players to create a winning culture for the youngsters to grow into.

If in 2 years, the youngsters start hitting their stride, and the vets are still in their prime, we're a lethal team that can role 3 lines. We'll possibly have nine forwards that could be in the top six in any other team.

There’s a balance though, because there’s too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak. The fact of the matter is that top six spots are being taken, as well as the entire power play. If the kids are going to learn to drive the bus (which you absolutely have to do sooner or later because that’s the whole reason you acquire elite talent at the top of the draft) they need time and space. There is a difference in needing to make the playoffs and competing. Right now, Quinn is playing vets above all else basically to try and make playoffs. That’s fine, but management can’t live in both worlds. Contracts can’t be given out that will be a detriment to this team when they actually will compete. Contracts like Kreider, Trouba, etc, will come back to hurt them. And it’s because of this “omg the kids aren’t doing anything right now, let’s give out the contracts to players that are having good years” it’s an extremely short sighted approach that has ramifications and could derail the entire thing before it gets off the ground.

 

[Leonardo87]

Well, got the Flyers coming up next two games. Time to pad those stats, lol.

 

[Rongomania]

Kreider is their leader. That's the choice the front office made. All rebuilds are going to face tough seasons at one point or another. We can't act as if it's not going to happen.

Troubs was emerging as the real leader whether some like it or not. A real f*cking shame last night.

I like Troubs with the C but of course I wouldn't be shocked if they give it to Kreids.

I also think waiting for one of the kids to emerge as a C so maybe he can remain that through this decade run we're setting up for currently is a great option.

 

[chosen]

fair enough
What I meant to say is he fits the model, he is a projected driver of play, and is complementary as such, for that line, specifically. He may fit that role other lines also.

But can we agree
LaF = scorer
Chytil = facilitator

JG is like Kreider lite, speed, toughness, works pucks in corners, then also supplements rest of the equation.

As to
"I haven't seen those stats. Is that true, so far in his career?"

What I ask you to consider, honestly, is has he had a real and legit chance to go there.
Has this guy been another Lias Andersson eff up who got chances?
Or has he not gotten sufficient opportunity?

Quinn not playing him stinks of something.

He was given the same chance as Kravtsov.

Kravtsov has all of us salivating at his future. Gauthier, no.

 

[jay from jersey]

I know there's a lot of hype surrounding Jones, but I think Schneider with his size and defensive acumen will beat him out. The recent offensive surge by him is intriguing as well.

Think Jones will ultimately be used as a trade chip, especially if Nils makes the team. We would otherwise have way too many undersized D

Jones is a LD. I think Lundkvist is the bait for sure. He’s high end enough to get a good return and the rangers top D Rd for the next 3 years at least will be fox and trouba. Schneider is the mandate. They want to be bigger and harder to play against. He fits that to a T while still being mobile and adding Offense. Skinner also plays an abrasive style

 

[chosen]

Curious about what you see in Laf that makes him stand apart from Kakko and Kravs. I think all three will be great, but I could not pretend to know which of the three will be the best. Kravs has more experience so he's a bit more polished right now, but I really couldn't say who will be better when all 3 mature. It's so early in their careers.

Laf has by far the best pedigree and he's the youngest.

He is very strong and has great hockey IQ.

His flaw is his skating and he knows it. He talked about it in an interview the other day. A player with his drive to excel will work like crazy to improve and I believe we'll all be very happy with what we see from him next season.

Have to mention that I couldn't believe the person who posted that Laf is too happy, implying that he doesn't care enough.

 

[chosen]

I know there's a lot of hype surrounding Jones, but I think Schneider with his size and defensive acumen will beat him out. The recent offensive surge by him is intriguing as well.

Think Jones will ultimately be used as a trade chip, especially if Nils makes the team. We would otherwise have way too many undersized D

You might be right. I'm just saying that Jones making it here wouldn't shock me at all.

 

[smoneil]

Curious about what you see in Laf that makes him stand apart from Kakko and Kravs. I think all three will be great, but I could not pretend to know which of the three will be the best. Kravs has more experience so he's a bit more polished right now, but I really couldn't say who will be better when all 3 mature. It's so early in their careers.

Not directly related to this discussion, but I've been wondering why people keep talking about a trio rather than a quartet when it comes to the kid forwards. Chytil is only 3 months older than Kravtsov, IIRC, and the team clearly markets him as part of the uber young new core. On here, Chytil seems almost like an afterthought (even though he plays the more important position and is having the best year of the four). Is it just that he's not the new toy anymore or that he's the only one of the three who wasn't a top 10 pick?

 

[tomobson]

Not directly related to this discussion, but I've been wondering why people keep talking about a trio rather than a quartet when it comes to the kid forwards. Chytil is only 3 months older than Kravtsov, IIRC, and the team clearly markets him as part of the uber young new core. On here, Chytil seems almost like an afterthought (even though he plays the more important position and is having the best year of the four). Is it just that he's not the new toy anymore or that he's the only one of the three who wasn't a top 10 pick?

I think it's because he's blocked by Strome and Zib. He really has no chance to move up and play a bigger role unless Gorton makes some space with trades this off-season. I'm definitely looking forward to Chytil playing a bigger role on this team. He has a motor, plays hard in his own zone, and plays in the tough areas on offense.

 

[itsPLkielbasa]

One thing I noticed is Miller hangs on to the puck for way too long and then tries to get fancy / loses it. Growing pains but I hope he works on that.

Off ice issues are pretty much the reason we will miss the playoffs along with the bad start. (if we miss the playoffs)

 

[chosen]

One thing I noticed is Miller hangs on to the puck for way too long and then tries to get fancy / loses it. Growing pains but I hope he works on that.

Off ice issues are pretty much the reason we will miss the playoffs along with the bad start. (if we miss the playoffs)

You mean ADA?

 

[duhmetreE]

Not directly related to this discussion, but I've been wondering why people keep talking about a trio rather than a quartet when it comes to the kid forwards. Chytil is only 3 months older than Kravtsov, IIRC, and the team clearly markets him as part of the uber young new core. On here, Chytil seems almost like an afterthought (even though he plays the more important position and is having the best year of the four). Is it just that he's not the new toy anymore or that he's the only one of the three who wasn't a top 10 pick?

I personally think Chytil has Kreider potential. Laf, Kravtsov and Kakko are in different tiers. It doesn't mean Chytil can't be a game changer, just like Kreider...... when they decide to show up.

 

[Ail]

After seeing Matt Martin take out our most physical/toughest player with no repercussions we aren’t winning anything until they balance skill and grit. If that was the 94 Rangers Graves
Would have challenged Martin immediately. Or Kocur would have took his head off. Where was Kreider. If he wants to be captain he knows no one else is capable of doing something yet he remained invisible. I know he’s not a fighter but you have to do something in that case. They handed us our ass in an important game.

This isn't '94 anymore, it's not even 2004. In all of the years I've been lurking and posting here I have seen countless posts in every era of Rangers' hockey from the flash and skill of early Vigneault to the hard nose Torts teams, in regards to how the Rangers were soft and lacked grit. Yet in all of those same years I have still yet to see one of those posts prove in some tangible form that the grit they so often lament has any actual impact on the scoreboard. What happens in the 30 second scrum post hit or a play around the net has no measurable effect on the game as a whole. If someone fights Martin last night, do they win the game? If you or anyone else thinks so, please show us how you came to that conclusion.

The obvious issue with the game last night, is that they have no answer for when things tighten up.

 

[ohbaby]

Ed's title couldn't explain it any better. In fact Chokings on Fishsticks is an understatement. Isles couldn't score in regulation against the Flyers and we make them look like the Oilers of the '80's.

This was crushing. To not show up for the biggest game of the year is hard to take. I knew this game would be tough but I at least expected a concerted effort. I think is time to call up Morgan Barron and the other prospects. Our post season hopes are over.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Jones is a LD. I think Lundkvist is the bait for sure. He’s high end enough to get a good return and the rangers top D Rd for the next 3 years at least will be fox and trouba. Schneider is the mandate. They want to be bigger and harder to play against. He fits that to a T while still being mobile and adding Offense. Skinner also plays an abrasive style

I think it should be the opposite. Nils is more likely to be the game breaker. I’d rather another Fox over another Trouba.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

This isn't '94 anymore, it's not even 2004. In all of the years I've been lurking and posting here I have seen countless posts in every era of Rangers' hockey from the flash and skill of early Vigneault to the hard nose Torts teams, in regards to how the Rangers were soft and lacked grit. Yet in all of those same years I have still yet to see one of those posts prove in some tangible form that the grit they so often lament has any actual impact on the scoreboard. What happens in the 30 second scrum post hit or a play around the net has no measurable effect on the game as a whole. If someone fights Martin last night, do they win the game? If you or anyone else thinks so, please show us how you came to that conclusion.

The obvious issue with the game last night, is that they have no answer for when things tighten up.

I guess it's kinda like how people swear by that Emergen-C stuff, that taking it consistently prevents you from getting a cold. Except when you're taking it, you're not sure if you're not getting sick because you're taking Emergen-C or if you're just not getting sick to begin with.

Say for argument's sake Lemieux was everything he was billed to be and more - a Tom Wilson-esque clone. Does having a player like that actively fight off infections like Marchand by way of retaliation/in-game physicality, or does having a player like that prevent aggression before it happens?

I remember a handful of years back, someone analyzed if having a guy like Lucic on the Bruins prevented anything and one of the conclusions was that the Bruins ended up more injured/losing more man-games to injury than the average team during whatever year it was. Not that injuries equate to malicious plays, but some food for thought.

 

[bernmeister]

Not directly related to this discussion, but I've been wondering why people keep talking about a trio rather than a quartet when it comes to the kid forwards. Chytil is only 3 months older than Kravtsov, IIRC, and the team clearly markets him as part of the uber young new core. On here, Chytil seems almost like an afterthought (even though he plays the more important position and is having the best year of the four). Is it just that he's not the new toy anymore or that he's the only one of the three who wasn't a top 10 pick?

Chytil should def have his own line w/LaF + Gauthier

trade Buch + Strome who we can't afford beyond next yr anyway, and that is next yr w/gyrations.

Give the kids the mins they need now, it will pay off soon enough going forward.

GMJG making hardly any of our vets available so we could chase outside shot at POs was a fool's errand level mistake.

 

[The New Russian Five]

There’s a balance though, because there’s too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak. The fact of the matter is that top six spots are being taken, as well as the entire power play. If the kids are going to learn to drive the bus (which you absolutely have to do sooner or later because that’s the whole reason you acquire elite talent at the top of the draft) they need time and space. There is a difference in needing to make the playoffs and competing. Right now, Quinn is playing vets above all else basically to try and make playoffs. That’s fine, but management can’t live in both worlds. Contracts can’t be given out that will be a detriment to this team when they actually will compete. Contracts like Kreider, Trouba, etc, will come back to hurt them. And it’s because of this “omg the kids aren’t doing anything right now, let’s give out the contracts to players that are having good years” it’s an extremely short sighted approach that has ramifications and could derail the entire thing before it gets off the ground.

This 10000%

 

[The New Russian Five]

Laf has by far the best pedigree and he's the youngest.

He is very strong and has great hockey IQ.

His flaw is his skating and he knows it. He talked about it in an interview the other day. A player with his drive to excel will work like crazy to improve and I believe we'll all be very happy with what we see from him next season.

Have to mention that I couldn't believe the person who posted that Laf is too happy, implying that he doesn't care enough.

To be honest I haven't exactly seen this yet in his game. I'm not saying he has bad hockey IQ, but it's not something that has stood out for me in the same way it does when watching Panarin, Fox, and now Kravtsov.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

To be honest I haven't exactly seen this yet in his game. I'm not saying he has bad hockey IQ, but it's not something that has stood out for me in the same way it does when watching Panarin, Fox, and now Kravtsov.

I’ve seen it, but I haven’t seen him able to convert him much. like you see the intention, but the pass is missed or deflected or whatever. its clear he sees the ice extremely well and he’s looking to make plays as he moves up the ice. His body has to be in sync with his mind though, which is a big problem thus far.